What In The......

[Chief Grey Bear]

You should be proud of us. When are you joining?

I am a member.

[Wayne SW/MO]

It would be more interesting if they had included a copy of the questionnaire.

If you guys wanna know how they came up with the numbers- reading the first paragraph is a good start. The "organized angler" creel rates may be a little high, if only because there's a smaller sample pool than anglers-at-large. And I'm sure it was more than MSA members.

I read that, but I didn't see how that answered any real questions. I think organized is a little generic, especially when they use the same term for the Rock Bass Survey. Can you name any other organizations, aside from the MSA, targeting river smallmouth or rock bass?

As far as the springs go, I think between the fact that it is winter and most spring are on private property the figure are only of interest to the MDC.

The questionable part will still be the mysterious "organized" for me. The one thing that could account for this unusual number would be if the questionnaire ask for the numbers of fish kept, without defining species. I know that many MSA members are keeping spots.

I suppose one of the members could answer that question.

[jdmidwest]

When they came to town and tried to organize here locally, I was skeptical. Looked like a lot of meat fishers at the meeting with the exception of one out of stater. Everyone seemed to want to know where everyone was fishing. There is only one smallmouth organization that I am aware of.

It goes back to the old theory on here, unknown stream in an unknown place. Too much info leads to more crowds and less fish. Most of my favorite streams have been posted with their banners in the past few years, but some have not. Fishing has seemed to decline in the area, but I could blame that on the drought too and other factors.

One thing that has killed a few streams rather than help has been the SMA designation, hence only 12.3% fished them. They were prime streams years ago before they received state attention to protect them. Now, either some feel it is a waste of time if you can only keep 1 bass, or it is for trophy fishing only and numbers are not there that keeps them away. I have fished some of them and they don't seem to be as great as they once were.

The other thing has been the tagged bounty bass on several streams. It led to many more fisherman trying to make a little cash and ended up with fewer than normal numbers in the stream after the fiasco was gone.

[Al Agnew]

There is no way the SMA members keep an average of 3.however smallmouth, unless there are a lot of members that don't ever come to meetings or outings that keep a lot of them. I do know that the active members are pretty much universally catch and release anglers. I have no idea what other organizations would be surveyed except for bass clubs, and they are not supposed to keep their fish, although I know that some local club members keep tons of bass outside of their tournaments.

Jd, I have no idea either who you were seeing at whatever organizing meeting there was, but again, the active members of the SMA are not meat fishermen. They may ask where you fish, as in what streams, in an organizing meeting, but it would be more for conversation purposes than trying to glean a lot of "secret" information.

As for the Smallmouth Special Management Areas becoming worse fishing, I haven't seen that. I don't think they've IMPROVED as much as what I would have liked to have seen. They seem to get less fishing pressure from the meat fishermen than they did before, but more pressure from catch and release anglers, especially those from out of the immediate area.

There are a lot of factors involved in some of those special management areas. The original one on Big River was already suffering from spotted bass invading when it was designated, and the designation seems to slow the take-over by spotted bass, but didn't exactly improve the smallmouth fishing. The original one on the Meramec was a stretch that wasn't much for producing big fish. It got better. The original one on the Big Piney was in one of the only two parts of the Piney that were really popular with the canoe rental crowd; don't know how much that affected it. The upper portion got less canoeing pressure, and seemed to get a lot better, while the lower portion didn't improve much, if at all.

I don't fish a lot of the others, except for occasionally, so I don't know how much better or worse they got. I do know that when I fish a special management area, I usually do well...in several of them, VERY well.

[Chief Grey Bear]

There is no way the SMA members keep an average of 3.however smallmouth, unless there are a lot of members that don't ever come to meetings or outings that keep a lot of them. I do know that the active members are pretty much universally catch and release anglers. I have no idea what other organizations would be surveyed except for bass clubs, and they are not supposed to keep their fish, although I know that some local club members keep tons of bass outside of their tournaments.

Jd, I have no idea either who you were seeing at whatever organizing meeting there was, but again, the active members of the SMA are not meat fishermen. They may ask where you fish, as in what streams, in an organizing meeting, but it would be more for conversation purposes than trying to glean a lot of "secret" information.

As for the Smallmouth Special Management Areas becoming worse fishing, I haven't seen that. I don't think they've IMPROVED as much as what I would have liked to have seen. They seem to get less fishing pressure from the meat fishermen than they did before, but more pressure from catch and release anglers, especially those from out of the immediate area.

There are a lot of factors involved in some of those special management areas. The original one on Big River was already suffering from spotted bass invading when it was designated, and the designation seems to slow the take-over by spotted bass, but didn't exactly improve the smallmouth fishing. The original one on the Meramec was a stretch that wasn't much for producing big fish. It got better. The original one on the Big Piney was in one of the only two parts of the Piney that were really popular with the canoe rental crowd; don't know how much that affected it. The upper portion got less canoeing pressure, and seemed to get a lot better, while the lower portion didn't improve much, if at all.

I don't fish a lot of the others, except for occasionally, so I don't know how much better or worse they got. I do know that when I fish a special management area, I usually do well...in several of them, VERY well.

I see no reason for the MDC to misrepresent the information they accumulated. I don't know what purpose it would serve.

[jdmidwest]

Al, I only attended 1 meeting in Cape when they were trying to drum up a chapter there. There was only 1 true member if I recall, the rest were just ones that showed up. I really don't know what happened to them but I see their signs posted on alot of local streams.

I used to fish the 10 Mile near Poplar Bluff before and after the SMA. I saw a decline in the fishery at first due to it becoming more popular and have not fished it in about 5 years. I always considered it a hidden jewel that only a few locals knew about.

The upper 11PT section actually improved with the goggle eye size limit but I did not see any change in the smallies. Both goggle eye and smallies numbers and size were down in 2011 on the upper 11PT. We fished it several times that year. The stretch from Cane Bluff to Greer was really disappointing that year.

I started fishing the Jacks Fork after the SMA started and have only floated the lower sections of it a few times. I did not ever see any great numbers or sizes there either in the SMA or below to Current River. Years ago we fished the upper sections and always did well, but I have not been to them since the late 80's.

As far as Big River, I always float above the SMA area, so I really can't tell much about that. I have only waded the Piney a few times and have never been on the Meramec.

I really can't account for 2012, it was a low water year that I did not spend much time on the local rivers. Most of my fishing last summer was in TN and ARK.

Personally, I have not kept a smallmouth bass out of any stream in for over 20 years. About all I keep is bluegill and a goggle eye now and then as far as warmwater goes.

[Buzz]

I am a member.

Me too, but I feel a little like a red headed step child.

Here's the definition of organized,

organized, organised [ˈɔːgəˌnaɪzd]

adj

1. planned and controlled on a large scale and involving many people (ie organized crime)

2. orderly and efficient a highly organized campaign

3. (Business / Industrial Relations & HR Terms) (of the workers in a factory or office) belonging to a trade union organized labour

I am not saying that the MSA is an organized crime family at all. How many other organizations are there that target smallmouth in Missouri? Really, I want to know this!!!! Other than the tourney guys and giggers, they are somewhat organized, I don't know any others that fit the definition.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Who says they have to target smallmouth exclusively??

Don't you fish for smallmouth and trout and largemouth??

[Outside Bend]

I thought I read somewhere that Ozark Fly Fishers was one of the "organized" groups, but I may be mistaken. And I'm sure they included some of the tourny groups as well. Heck, the tourny nglers may have sandbagged their responses in hopes of maintaining a higher creel limi. , which would've skewed the numbers. At any rate, the numbers are what they are, and I doubt they represent a serious attempt by the MDC to discredit MSA- I just don't see the motive.

[jdmidwest]

Well, according to the stats on the last line of paragraph 3, the percentages of harvest 31.8 regular to 21.9 organized show the numbers to favor the MSA. It really depends on what numbers you wnat to key in on as to how you read the values.

You could also draw from the study that we should be fishing springs in the winter for some excellent smallie fishing as they were worried about overharvest there.

What I wonder is why did it take so long for it to come out? Data collected in 2011. Published in Oct 2012. And just now hitting the streets.