Big Piney 5 Nighter?

[padlnjones]

Hi folks,

I am considering a trip from Dog Bluff to Ross Bridge on Big Piney the first week of MAy. we will have 5 tandem canoes loaded to max (ultra-heavy canoe camping). I have not run this before. last year we did 3 days on the 11 Pt and ran the Current 4 nights from Akers to Powdermill. We will be fishing, but not too seriously. mostly looking for good scenery, riverside camping, and lack of civilization.

I know at that time high water and fast floods are an issue. Does anyone know recommended levels on the river gauge to help our planning? Any really nice camp sites to look for (or avoid). I have a river map and GPS... Which outfitter is best for shuttle in the area?

We might be looking for a coupla of day trips in empty boats, or a 2 nighter to fill out the week. WHich section of the gasconade would be good for 10-12 miles of nice floating? any other good floats? Little Piney? We might consider the Jack's Fork, as we havent caught it with water yet...

thanks for any advice!

david

[Al Agnew]

Here's a good tip to get an idea of what should be "normal flow" for that time of year. Go to the "Big Piney River near Big Piney, Mo" gauge; that's the gauge at Ross Bridge. In the box above the graphs that has a place on the right side where it says "begin date" and "end date" type in the time of year you want to float, in this case something like May 1 to May 10, and pick any year--2012 will do. Hit "go" and that will take you to graphs showing the flow and river level in that time period last year. The "discharge, cubic feet per second" graph will have those little triangles in it. Those triangles will give you the normal flow for that time of year. In this case, the triangles are all around 600 cfs, so in the first week of May, normal flow of the Big Piney at Ross Bridge is around 600 cfs. That would be your ideal floating level that you'd be looking for.

As you get within a few days of the time you're going, watch that gauge closely, and see if the river is low, normal, or higher than normal, and if it's had a recent rise that might still be affecting water level when you go.

On the day before you leave, look at the gauge again. This time, not only look at the "discharge in cubic feet per second" graph to see how close the flow is to those little triangles, but also look at the box labeled "daily discharge in cubic feet per second for (that date) based on 82 years of record". Look at the figure in cfs that says "75th percentile". That figure is a fairly decent indication of the flow in cfs that will be about as high as you'd want to float, anything higher and the river could be too fast and muddy. What it means is that 75% of the time on that date, the river was lower than that figure. It's not perfect, because the river could be a little higher and still be fairly safe to float and perhaps clear enough to fish, or it could be a little lower and still be too muddy to fish, but it's a reasonable guideline.

Keep in mind that if the river is at about normal level, or lower than normal, when you start your trip, it takes more rain to raise the river enough to run you off it, while if it's already higher than normal, even if it's still below that 75th percentile level, and there's significant rain in the forecast, there's more danger that the river could flood during your trip.

Don't even look at the level in feet. All your decisions should be based upon the discharge in cfs figures.

I've been on the upper Big Piney a few times, and I can tell you that there's a decent flow even up at Dog's Bluff if the flow at Ross Bridge is over 500 cfs, but if it's much below that, you'll be doing some dragging until you get to Boiling Spring.

[padlnjones]

Hi Al,

thanks for the reply. If we had to put in at Boiling Springs that would knock 17 miles off the trip, probably do 2 nights 3 days on Big Piney and need another run to do (Gasconade?). Looking back on the gauge it mirrors what we found last May on the Current, when people said it was the lowest they remembered, and MAy 2011 when everything was blown out from flooding and we had to cancel altogether and went to Fla. instead ( did 3 nights on the Suwanee). I see Big Piney got up to almost 7000 cfs that May!

at 5-600 on Ross Bridge will we find plenty of gravel bars and beaches for camping?

[Gavin]

You might like the Piney below Fort Leonard Wood in that time frame. Awesome scenery from East Gate down to the Gasconade. ...Or do Riddle Bridge to Jerome on the G. Nade. froggy in spots, ripped up in spots.... but some of the best bluffs in the Ozarks..

[padlnjones]

Hi Gavin,

any of the outfitters you would recommend for shuttle help? I will check out those sections, thanks. What does froggy and "ripped up in spots" mean? never heard those expressions before...

I didnt find Eastgate in my guide book (MO Ozark Waterways), what river mile is that?

[Gavin]

Boiling Springs CG on the Big Piney is the uppermost outfitter... west side of the river just downstream from MDC's Boiling Springs access...Two others outfitters are located on the west side of the river right below MDC's Ross Bridge Access. Rich's Last Resort, and Wilderness Ridge...You have 2 choices on the Big Piney below Fort Leonard wood...Lay-Z-Day on the west side of the river off of Teak Ln.(about 7 miles upstream from I-44, and Route 66 Canoe on the east side of the river about a mile north of the I-44 bridge off of Trophy Lane.. Boiling Spring CG on the Gasconade is about 2 miles downstream from the confluence of the Big Piney and Gasconade.

The Big Piney is alot smaller than the Gasconade and its relatively undeveloped thanks to all the Forest Service land along its banks. The Gasconade is pretty wide and slow in comparrison to the Piney....Mile long slow pools and short riffles...Pretty in the spots were you dont encounter cows, eroded mudbanks, and development. Huge bluffs, good smallmouth fishing.

This might help explain the lay of the land...

http://www.fs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/stelprdb5407499.pdf

[padlnjones]

Thanks, that's a big help... Is it still true that you cant float thru Ft Leonard Wood? some flow is nice, mile long slow pools not so much...

I was not aware of that Lower Buffalo to White R. run. that looks very nice! could be a 57 or 30 mile run. we did Ponca to Woolum a few years ago... I like to fly up and down the rivers with Google Earth; gives a pretty good sense of things (at the water level the photos were shot, anyway)

We will have 7-8 days to play not counting driving time (from N & S Carolina), so we want to have contingency plans based on conditions at the time (may 4-12)... It seems to me that if one system is flooding and blown out, they all will be. I would think that Lower Buffalo could get really big being at the bottom of that huge watershed.

I have read about the Meramec and Niangua systems, both of which can support multi-day canoe trips. Any experience with them? Lots to explore in your area!

I made a slide show of our 11 PT/ Current trip last year if interested. also one for the Buffalo trip at that site...

http://www.photodex.com/share/padlnjones/kb8wcmg4

[Gavin]

You can float through Fort but I havent done that section..Long shuttle and not the prettiest section due to all the developement in the Fort from reports..A few obstacles to portage too. Check the Fort Leonard Wood website for the guidelines on floating through..

Too many rivers to float in a lifetime around here. The Current, Jacks Fork, and Eleven Point are probably my favorites followed by the Big Piney, North Fork of the White, Meramec, Gasconade & Black. Not a big fan of the Niangua...Buffalo is awesome, but theres too many rivers in between here and there...Here's a good resource if you are looking elsewhere. Plenty of free maps and contact info for outfitters.

http://www.missouricanoe.org/statemap.html

[Flatbottom Boy]

You guys can actually put in on the fort also, I know Gavin had mentioned some issues leaving the vehicle parked over near the east gate, pretty sure those issues wouldn't happen on base. PM me if you want more info.

Eric

[Gavin]

Larry had his gas tank siphoned by some sleaze ball meth-heads at East Gate last spring. Make sure you have locking gas caps and dont leave anything of value in an unattended vehicle.