Sometimes the Truth Hurts

[LostMyWife]

Dano

I agree. I keep numbers because it is inherent to who we are.

BUT, I fish to relax, enjoy nature and relieve the stress that my job provides me with. Fishing is a great distraction. My blood pressure drops and I relax.

It is also nice to learn something that is NOT work related. I have software manuals, ops manuals and marketing flow charts that I HAVE to read. It is great reading things that I want to read.

LMW

[Terry Beeson]

I keep numbers at times. Like McM said, I sure know when the number is zero. But on most days I might estimate the number if you ask, but do I know the "number?" Most likely I'm off at least 25%...

I like talking 25 inch fish and 50 fish days. But, if that's the ONLY reason I go, I've missed the boat...

If it's legal, it's OK...

If it's "ethical"... well... ethics are sometimes a matter of opinion...

[gonefishin]

Gonefishin said something about a fist fight starting with this topic. So far I ain't even seen a soft slap.

But, I really like the word elitist. I thought it fit rather well, but being a conservative republican I thought I would look it up. Here's what I found.

Elitist.....The belief that one group or individual is superior to another.

The belief that some people or things are inherently superior to others and deserve preeminence, preferential treatment, or higher rewards because of their superiority.

I just thought we would have a lot more fun with it.

So Terry, what is it you really ?

LMW: There have been some heated discussions on here about C&R fishermen vs catch and keep fishermen.

Personally I release a lot more fish than I keep however, I will keep some once in a while because I like to eat fish and fresh fish is much better than store bought frozen fish. Also unless it is an illegal fish I never return a dying fish to the water. I put it in my creel. If I meet my limit I give it up for the day and I don't compete for the biggest number of fish caught in a day.

I have met a lot of strict C&R fishermen who are very vocal about how everyone should be catch and release fishermen and that a fish should never be kept. They take a very elitist (see your definition) attitude about it and believe they have the moral high ground. They tend to think they are real sportsmen and that catch and take fisherman are killers. They also tend to believe, because they practice C&R that they never kill a fish. There is a problem belief.

Say we have a fisherman who catches 15 fish per hour. What is the mortality rate of those fish? There is no doubt the stress of being caught is going to kill some fish. Lactic acid builds up in the fish during the fight to which the fish later succumbs. The bigger the fish the longer the fight hence the worse the problem. What is the percentage? That is a matter of opinion but depending on who one talks to it is somewhere between 2% and 15%. Back to the 15 fish per hour for an 8 hour day the C&R fisherman kills somewhere between 2.4 and 18 fish per 8 hour day. My argument is and has been that numbers fishermen kill just as many if not more fish than a catch and keep fisherman who catches and keeps his/her limit of 4 fish to eat.

This belief has gotten me beat up on here more than once.

[Terry Beeson]

"GF, you igonorant snoot...."

Oh... wait... already tried that with LMW....

Never mind....

I agree with you GF. I am a C&R advocate, but I at least TRY not to be an elitist with it. I do think there are times when it is better to put one back than take it home. But, it's leagal, so OK. I can still voice my opinion on the subject.

But, you are right. There are those that are strictly "my way or the highway" on BOTH sides.

I suppose it's like anything else. If all of you were exactly like me, the world would be a much better place....

[LostMyWife]

GF

Thank you for the post. I did not realize that many C&R fish die. I have not caught enough fish to worry about keeping them, and I don't carry a creel or anyway to keep the fish that I catch.

I fish a lot at home. Mostly for catfish and crappie, and I release them as well. I just always thought it was best to let someone else get a chance to catch them as well. I do not feel that my C&R practices should ever be imposed on others. It is my practice, and I the only other fishermen I impose it on is my kids. My Dad always said not to keep anything that you were not going to eat. I try to teach my kids the same thing. What others do is up to them.

Your comments have raised some issues for me that I had not considered. If I fight a fish until they are almost dead, what would I do. Until I joined this site I had no idea, and would not have considered breaking off the tippet to let them go. I would have fought them in and released them.

Is it always like this at Taney, or is it better when the DO level is higher. This all of a sudden got a lot more serious than I realised. My only consolation so far is that I can't catch trout yet.

Thanks for the education

LMW

[Kicknbass]

Back to the 15 fish per hour for an 8 hour day the C&R fisherman kills somewhere between 2.4 and 18 fish per 8 hour day. My argument is and has been that numbers fishermen kill just as many if not more fish than a catch and keep fisherman who catches and keeps his/her limit of 4 fish to eat.

Not if there is a catch and keep fisherman catching and keeping the released fish. Fishing just down stream.

[Terry Beeson]

Not to dispute, but just as a matter of record for a statistical nut here... GF, where did you get that data?

[gonefishin]

Heh heh See what I mean LMW I told you it could get stirred up. Seriously it is not that big of an issue to me except when someone trys to force their practices on me. For me fishing is a personal experience. Some like C&R, some like to keep a limit, some like to fish for big fish and some like to fish for numbers. More power to them as long as they are doing it legal.

Like I said I am mostly a C&R fisherman but if bring in a fish that is mortally hooked I will keep it rather than let it go to die and if I want to I keep a few for me and my family to eat. If during the day I catch a limit of fish that are mortally hooked I figure the fish are telling me its time to give them a break so, I go home or better yet fish for something else. I know I could just chuck dying fish back, forget it and keep on fishing but for me that isn't right. This is just my personal ethics and I never try to force my beliefs on others.

Not if there is a catch and keep fisherman catching and keeping the released fish. Fishing just down stream.

LOL Yeah. I have to admit that is true.

[gonefishin]

Not to dispute, but just as a matter of record for a statistical nut here... GF, where did you get that data?

I dont recall all of the souces Terry. I did an online search for some, emailed the MDC and got some from various fishing magazines. The numbers are really hard to pin down because the mortality rate depends on the species of fish, the size of the fish, the time of the fight, other stress factors such as low DO levels, how the fish is handled, how fast the fish is returned to the water and whether one is using live bait or lures. Theere are a couple of things they all agree on which are that live bait fishermen tend to kill more fish than lure fishermen and that even with lure fishermen who practice strict catch and release there is a percentage of fish that die.

[Terry Beeson]

LMW,

As suspected, the statistics do show the overall mortality rate. There are things that can be done to lower the probability of killing a fish, as GF has stated. Basically, if we "worry" about killing fish and put these things into practice, the mortality rate drops for the individual fisherman. Many don't know these techniques or choose not to use them. I admit at times I have "old timer's" disease, but I never lip a fish and I always try to keep them in the water. That's one reason I don't get too upset when a big fish breaks off after a short fight. I figure that gives them a better chance to live to fight another day.

But, if I land one and can tell it will not survive, I will show that fish the way to my smoker...