Is The Sun Causing The Current Climate Change?

[Justin Spencer]

Wow Jeb, preach fiscal responsibility and then bitch about budget cuts to a program that is in your opinion a program to promote national pride.

Right here is the problem, we all want a balanced budget but at the same time we aren't willing to make budget cuts. I'd love to keep seeing us in space, but it is a luxery we don't need right now, sorry if it hurts our pride. Crumbling infrastructure hurts my pride more.

[jeb]

Wow Jeb, preach fiscal responsibility and then bitch about budget cuts to a program that is in your opinion a program to promote national pride.

Right here is the problem, we all want a balanced budget but at the same time we aren't willing to make budget cuts. I'd love to keep seeing us in space, but it is a luxery we don't need right now, sorry if it hurts our pride. Crumbling infrastructure hurts my pride more.

I don't think it's a "program to promote national pride". That's just a by product. But I get your point, and I do understand the budget constraints that makes it hard to justify replacing the shuttle program. And I'd be a lot more okay with that if I didn't see the govt running huge deficits fighting stupid wars and expanding the welfare state.

Term limits and a constitutional mandate for a balanced budget are what we need, IMO. Oh, and drastic campaign reforms.

[Fly_Guy]

Green, renewable technology is the technology of the future. This is an interesting article - solar energy has almost the same cost as oil and gas. http://moneymorning.com/2014/05/13/these-3-stocks-to-buy-now-will-surge-on-solar-powers-arrival/ Investors are taking note. I like a line in this article "since it is a technology, it will get cheaper over time" Not much more we can do with oil and gas to make the process cheaper. However, since solar, and wind are still in their relative infancy, they will come down in price. More than enough energy from the sun to power the planet forever... just have to develop the technology to use it. China will be 20% renewable by 2020, and your solar panels will say Made in China on them... (though they just might anyway) http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/how-much-solar-energy-hits-earth.html

The automobile was the future, and I promise you that there were people who bred horses and sold buggies that didn't like it, but it came anyway. America has to chose whether we will lead, or watch others and try to play catch-up. China outspends us in renewable energy technology R%D (though we're a close second)

Jeb's closer - US funding does appear to be more in the 50 billion range (I think my number was from perhaps one form of tech... can't remember, but always willing to accept an error)... so that's a much more respectable 5% of the cost of one unjustifiable and detrimental war (which is still costing...)

[Fly_Guy]

I don't think it's a "program to promote national pride". That's just a by product. But I get your point, and I do understand the budget constraints that makes it hard to justify replacing the shuttle program. And I'd be a lot more okay with that if I didn't see the govt running huge deficits fighting stupid wars and expanding the welfare state.

Term limits and a constitutional mandate for a balanced budget are what we need, IMO. Oh, and drastic campaign reforms.

Agreed

[Justin Spencer]

Agreed

X2

[jeb]

Green, renewable technology is the technology of the future. This is an interesting article - solar energy has almost the same cost as oil and gas. http://moneymorning.com/2014/05/13/these-3-stocks-to-buy-now-will-surge-on-solar-powers-arrival/ Investors are taking note. I like a line in this article "since it is a technology, it will get cheaper over time" Not much more we can do with oil and gas to make the process cheaper. However, since solar, and wind are still in their relative infancy, they will come down in price. More than enough energy from the sun to power the planet forever... just have to develop the technology to use it. China will be 20% renewable by 2020, and your solar panels will say Made in China on them... (though they just might anyway) http://www.ecoworld.com/energy-fuels/how-much-solar-energy-hits-earth.html

I never said otherwise, although I'd disagree with the premise about oil and gas. It is made relatively cheaper by comparing it to higher cost green energy sources. The overall problem is storage. Your article mentions another experimental one, molten salt, and I hope that works out, and is economical. But until that nut is cracked, part time power sources will never fill the grid. And until the cost of that eventual storage media is known and figured in, you can't really compare "parity to grid", IMO.

I do think we will transition slowly over to greener technologies over time, as they become more economically viable. That makes sense. Trying to force the grid over while the cost of the alternatives is still too high and the storage problem is still not solved is what I object to.

Then there is the issue of where do you put all these wind farms and solar fields? Folks don't generally want them in their backyards. Look how hard they fought them off the coast near the Kennedy compound out East. Laughable hypocrisy at its finest, right there.

The automobile was the future, and I promise you that there were people who bred horses and sold buggies that didn't like it, but it came anyway.

Because they made economic sense. They did more work, you didn't have to have a farm to keep them around, they were faster, etc, etc.

Jeb's closer - US funding does appear to be more in the 50 billion range (I think my number was from perhaps one form of tech... can't remember, but always willing to accept an error)... so that's a much more respectable 5% of the cost of one unjustifiable and detrimental war (which is still costing...)

I think another thing to look at in your calculations is that you're talking a yearly investment in R&D and comparing it to the total cost of our middle east wars over many years. I'm not by any means trying to justify the cost of those wars, just sayin'.

[Justin Spencer]

Storage is a problem for sure and that's why I think having personal solar arrays on most homes is the answer. We will most likely rely on some fossil fuels or nuclear power to keep up, but if the (bad word coming) government would mandate solar arrays on all new construction, or if we would start taxing fossil fuel based power sources giving people an economic reason to switch to solar, eventually we would start seeing progress being made leading to more private money being invested into research of alternative "green" technology. Unfortunately it will take a push by the government to get people to start doing this on a large scale because it will cost the individual money without seeing the benefits for several years. Because it will take a push from the government this plan will be next to impossible to get conservatives on board with so I expect no real changes in the forseeable future.

[jeb]

Unfortunately it will take a push by the government to get people to start doing this on a large scale because it will cost the individual money without seeing the benefits for several years.

And it will also send many, many more of our jobs overseas, all while decreasing our standard of living.

I think the answer is to continue to do research into viable storage options. Maybe shift the lions share of the R&D money being wasted on Climate Change research, since that is yielding almost nothing but bad science so far. Once that hill has been climbed, assuming it can be climbed, the rest will likely follow suit. Trying to force the issue is only hurting ourselves, IMO.