eagle claw featherlight rods

[Patricks on the White]

I just had a client a few weeks ago that had a TFO, cheapie,rod break while fighting a big fish; good graphite rods aren't supposed to do that. An acquaintance of mine has worked for Sage for over 20 years. He told me years ago that theres quite a bit of engineering and design that goes into the higher quality graphite and that it definately makes a difference if you've got big fish in mind but that the lower priced rods are fine for most dink fish. I own one, pricey Sage XP 4 weight that brought in a 17 pounder last year after 20 minutes of rod stress; don't know what my cheapies would have done.Guides probably have a great feel for the difference.

Patricks

[jdmidwest]

I have always supported the idea that a man should only buy the best equipment he can afford based his skills. The right tool for the job is the most important. A new flyfisher will not cast any better with a $700 rod than he will with a $18.95 one without training. The benefits of the higher end rods are of most importantly the warranty. You might get a Wally World employee to give you the money back on a rod that you smashed in a car door, if you don't you won't feel too bad. If you crack a $400 rod with a bad cast, you will need a warranty. Almost all of my rods carry a 25 year no questions asked warranty. The downside to that is that if you have to use that warranty, they normally replace the rod with a equal or greater value rod instead of fixing it. I have grown fond of a few of my rods and the sentimental value of the rods can't be replaced and are not made any longer. I returned a 9' 8wt one time and it was replaced with a 10' 7 wt of the next higher quality, where they come up with that one I'll never figure out. Turned out to be an advantage on an Alaska trip, that extra foot helped on a big stream. I broke the tip off my favorite 4 wt and fixed it myself knowing if I sent it in for repair it would be gone forever.

If you are serious about your sport, quality equipment will make things more enjoyable. It will be a wise investment and may be something that can be passed down to a future generation to enjoy. This goes for anything, rods, boats, guns, boots, lines, waders, knives, etc.

[Greg]

Regarding the high end rods being more durable or break resistant - sorry but I just don't think that's true. It may be true in certain lines or certain instances but certainly not true across the board. High end rods use higher modulus graphite that is in general more brittle and they use less of it (thinner walls). Yes I'm sure a lot of engineering goes into making the high $$ rods in most cases very durable. But several years ago I was speaking to a rep from a company that confirmed to me that this particular company actually has more broken rods returned from their high end lines than their low end ones.

And my experience has certainly been different. The biggest trout of my life was taken from Taney several years ago on a cabela's 3 forks cheapie. The trout was a 9 lb rainbow and it certainly stressed the rod to the max and handled the fish like a champ. Consequently the only rod I've ever broken while fishing was a $500 + model.

If we are wanting to talk durable - then rather than high end graphite - we need to talk about glass rods. Like the aforementioned eagle claw featherlight. Has anyone ever heard of one breaking other than in a car door? I haven't. I've got a 40 year old fenwick glass rod that is the epitome of durability. It fishes pretty darned well too.

I'm certainly not saying high end rods are not worth the price. To many they certainly are. But I don't think durability factors into that. I think it is more about less weight, nicer reel seats and guides, etc. To me in graphite rods the sweet spot is the mid priced rods. I think the TFO professionals, St. Croix Avids, etc - are plenty nice enough and still have most of the "feel" of the higher end rods. At least for me.

Just MHO's

Greg

[Terry Beeson]

This rather small "obsession" with the Eagle Claw rods was instigated by Dano who brought one to the "get together" we had New Year's Day. The purchase of these rods is a "novelty" purchase for most if not all of us. I had a spin/cast rod built on the same blank as a kid and have another one I used for crappie tight lining a few years ago.

None of us expect these rods to be the same as a G Loomis Stream Dance GLX or one of Harry's bamboo rods. But as a novelty, I would love to post a picture here of a nice fish with that $30 rig (the 6' 6" Featherlight coupled with a Pfleugar reel made in the 1960s) draped across my arms.

As for "high dollar" rods not suppose to break during a fight, I'm willing to bet there were some contributing factors to the breaking of that rod other than just the fish and the rod being a TFO. ANY graphite rod is prone to breakage if certain contributing factors come into play. The engineering your friend referred to has a lot to do with how the graphite fibers are arranged and "woven" into the rod blank. The differences in TODAY'S graphite rods and those made in the 70s is pretty vast, regardles of price. However, just as "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch" if only a few of these fibers are damaged, it can be detrimental to the rod in a short period of time of use no matter how much you paid for it. That's just the nature of graphite.

That's why you hear a lot about doing your best to keep your fly from hitting your rod during the cast. That's why we store them in almost armor plated containers.

I worked on plastics for some 20 years with a quality and engineering background. I can tell you that as far as the difference in the blank's molecular structure and patterns in a "cheapie" TFO and a Sage XP is not all that great. Yes there are differences, but not big vast differences. Under the same circumstances, the TFO and maybe even the cheapest WalMart Shakespeare you can buy, would have held up just as well as the Sage in a given fight with a fish...

Granted there are several differences in a $100 rod and a $600 rod. Reel seats, guides, grips, and even spine alignment can make a difference. Also, guides who have rods that will spend 365 days a year in use will be looking for a rod that has the reliability needed for that kind of use. Are there reasons to buy a "high dollar" rod? Yes... but I just don't think the twice a month or even twice a year fly fisherman should feel like he's being short changed because he has a "cheap" TFO. He's not...

[Crippled Caddis]

Patrick wrote:

<I just had a client a few weeks ago that had a TFO, cheapie,rod break while fighting a big fish; good graphite rods aren't supposed to do that.>

As Dally pointed out in a post above a lot of manufacturers have backed off a bit from the super high modulus rods. That has helped reduce the rate of failure and good design goes a long way toward making rods more durable as well. But the fact remains that it is the nature of the material that is the root of the problem. Carbon fiber is a wonderful engineering material but like all materials it too has limitations. In simple terms graphite keeps getting stiffer as more load is put on it until it reaches it's inherent limit at which point it fails catastrophically. That natural failure mode is exacerbated by any weak point in the material such as use induced stress risers such as hook nicks or impact contusions, thin layups, resin embrittlement or starvation or just poor design or execution. Obviously most of the failure inducing problems can be controlled by good design and closely monitored quality control in the manufacturing process. Just as obvious is that the less expensive the rod the less care had to go into its' creation in order to make it profitable.

Try taking a look at some of the better fiberglass rods being built today both by name-brand rodmakers and custom builders. Almost any action can be had from the boutique builders at a price comparable to a good graphite stick and fiberglass does not suffer from the same limitation as graphite. While it has it's own limits catastrophic failure is not inherent to the material itself. The 'toughness factor' of fiberglass makes it the best choice in such instances as chuck-n-duck casting of heavily weighted flies and brush-bucking hikes into remote 'bluelines' on a topo map where a cane or graphite would be in serious jeopardy. If nothing else a good fiberglass rod as a back-up on that once-in-a-lifetime trip makes a lot of sense.

And some of us hide-bound old farts just like the way it casts.;o) CC

[Tightline]

ArmyFF,I think you will like your Featherlite,I started out with a 7 ft graphite and now I won't even pick it up.That little Feather lite cast so easy,and if it will get a 2 lb male White in ,it should be ok for an 8-10 Trout. and if I break it I can but 8 more for the price of my other.

No novelty purchase here,I can't wait to take it down to Taney and fish beside all the Sages,Orvis,tfo,or whatever and see if I get any sneers.Not ashamed here!

[Crippled Caddis]

Terry wrote:

<The differences in TODAY'S graphite rods and those made in the 70s is pretty vast, regardles of price. However, just as "one bad apple spoils the whole bunch" if only a few of these fibers are damaged, it can be detrimental to the rod in a short period of time>

FWIW I still fish the 2nd rod I ever built in the '70s, an 8', 5 wt. Fenwick 'HMG' which, IIRC, was a 2nd generation graphite which probably is a glass/graphite composite. It has numerous nicks and contusions but it has not failed. Were it a later, high-modulus graphite I'm certain it would have long since been a part of history. I'm starting to suspect that we are going to start seeing more glass/graphite composites as manufacturers start to get serious about addressing failure rates in order to lower warrantee obligations and maintain their reputation for quality.

[Danoinark]

I think you all know how I feel abou the Eagle Claw's. I wouldn't hesitate to fish them on any of the local trout streams or smallie creeks. I hooked a big fish on my 6'6" early morning New Year's Day on Taney. I didn't bring him to hand, but it wasn't because of any rod failure. My knot failed. I especially like the action of these little gems in that the parabolic nature protects light tippets and allows for a very forgiving casting stroke.

Somone mentioned that the high end rods by certain manufacturers base the price on the warranty. That doesnt' always hold water. St. Croix is an example in that their warranty for entry level sticks is the same as their most expensive. I think Sage and Scott do that also.

Dano

[Guest flyfishBDS]

I am just not sold on the idea that $700 rods are one bit better than $150 rods for the average fisherman or in general for that matter.

Come down and cast some $400-$650 and find out the difference to a $100 rod in how they cast. Doesn't cost a penny _ and its fun LOL.

Read my posts on high dollar rods thread next section down. There are arguments for both high end and low end, and why I have a mix in my rod collection. Sometimes its not just budget.

But generally I think there is little difference in most of the entry level rods $99 to $200+brand to brand etc, . Way more difference in $350s up, and there is some exception value $300-450 right now, stuff very close to the $500$700 _ I think there is more character built into these rods to suit different casters. The entry level rods are pretty middle of the road, suit most casters and do the job perfectly well

I had a forumite in yesterday wanted to graduate from an entry level to a high end rod, we played with several pretty new caster but ok loops. Witht he Z-Axis $650 his loops were ugly, with the SLT his loops were several hundred % better, tight, straight etc _ that was the one that fit. Even I was surprised at the difference, but ignoring the pricing it shows how getting the right rod for you makes a difference

Ultimately pick what suits your casting and your budget.

There is a lot of bull*&^% around rods on the net, brands, types etc. The only way to sort it out is cast them for yourselves, come into the Dam Store, visit Michael, Mclellans in Fayetteville, Phil whoever. We like playing with the toys even if your not intending to fork over the shekels then and there.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest flyfishBDS]

Think I posted the above in the wrong section LOL _ now Im confused.

Incidentally

Sage Warranty not a price issue

Not LIFETIME, ORIGINAL OWNER

$40 covers repairs irrespective of price of stick

I guess I have to wait until the 21st to cast Dano's rod LOl

Cheers