Two Hand Rods

[matthill1216]

Ok Nathan,

I'm gonna pick your brain. I'm getting ready to order a mow tip. I don't want an all floating tip cause there are some deep spots on the White when the water is moving just like Taneycomo would be. Here's the options. A T-8 will sink at 6 ips. So, on a drift and swing, depending on the area, would it be best to have 2.5' of sinking tip or an even 5'. The tip is 10' long. The Scandi Short is 23'.

To imagine the ratio on a drift and swing with good running water, the last 10' of your tip will drop either 2.5' @ 6isp or 5' @ 6isp. That's a fast drop no matter what length it is. Especially if you're use to floating line. I have a sink tip but it is about 2 or 3isp.

Any thoughts? I'm thinking 5/5 ratio. Obviously the fish feed along the bottom the most. I may go both routes for when less units are running.

[trapshot25]

Sent you pm

[Nighthawk]

Westbranchfly, my rod is a 12'6" generic graphite I built myself, floating line, 8 wt. Okuma Integrity. I swing a 56er, and use a circle spey cast.

[Dylan Cluver]

I had thought long and hard about at 2 handed rod a few years ago but did not purchase one. Thinking heavily of it again. What kind of $ would a starter set up cost?

[matthill1216]

My rod is an 11' 8wt and I got it at bass pro. They offer both 7 & 8wt. Both 11' for $180. The reel needs to be about 2 sizes larger than the rod for adequate space for the head of the line you choose. Whether scandi or Skagit. My setup ran approximately $400 when I was done. There are however complete outfits on eBay for around $300. I chose to deal locally with my stuff in case of any problems.

[westbranchfly]

Well Matt......., here's what I know about MOW tips.

Wait a minute, before I get sidetracked, I didn't realize that head you had on was a scandi. That explains why it casts differently. If your gonna run that 33' scandi top-level use a poly leader on the end. Scandinavian heads were designed for touch and go anchoring, not sustained water borne anchors like a Skagit head. They don't have the back bone for long heavy tips and flies.

Moving right along. If you want a mow tip, you're gonna have to get a Skagit head. Here's my take, and this is open for debate. I run a few different tips, T8, T-14,and a 7.5x2.5 T11.

The T11 gets used on low flows. It has the short sink tip that works well on low moving water.

The T8 gets used on 1000-3000cfs. It's10-11' long, and gets the flies close to the bottom, with the occasional snag.

The T-14 gets used to dredge on high flow days, say 4000+ cfs. I'll use anywhere from 10-12', depending upon how often the fly is hanging up.

All of that being said, depending on your flows and river bottom, and whether you're using weight in the fly, a 5x5 would probably get you through most of your runs and buckets.

In closing, remember this, the fish will tell you what they want. Sorry for rambling on.

[matthill1216]

Thanks for the great info!

Another question, when using a tip, is it already figured in for the grain weight or do you have to add it?

[westbranchfly]

Alright, here we go again with another ramble.

With Skagit casting, remember this. The masters have taught us that the head and tip should hold aratio of 2-1/2 to 3 times the rods length. This length includes the tip. Most of the line manufacturers have already taken this into account. Typically, heads labeled as shorts are intended for switch rods, and everything else is determined by the magical rod length of 13' and below or 13' and longer.

When it comes to grain weights, these are determined by the grain window of the rod. For example, we'll use my 5wt. switch. St. Croix tells me the window for that rod is 280-350 grains. This weight is for the Skagit head ONLY. To go further with this- if use a 280 gr. head, the rod will want to load the tip only. You'd better be good to cast on the light side. On the other hand, if I go heavier, the rod will load further into the blank. This will cause me to slow down my casting stroke. New casters can learn the rod load and casting stroke a bit better with a heavier head.

Now, the tips don't count towards grain weight. Some rod builders will give you the maximum sinking tip weight. A 5wt. switch is not going to pull 10' of T-14 and an intruder out of the water, but 10' of T8 will not be a problem, just slow down.

Another thing, everyone thinks these rods will all do 100' casts. Not so. One gem that Ed Ward passed on - rods, at least two handers, will typically cast 8 times their length. This depends on the casters skill ultimately. Theoretically, my 12-1/2' rod should be able to do 100'. Good luck getting that, most days I'm Lucky to get 80'.

[matthill1216]

That clarifies a lot. Thanks Nathan!

[westbranchfly]

You welcome!