WHAT IS A FORUM?

[John Berry]

I just returned from The White River Inn, A magnificent Lodge owned by my friend, Moose Watson. This was the site of a lot of the Television show that was recently filmed that featured my wife Lori among others (including John Wilson). When I arrived Moose related to me that he had posted an article on John,s Forum thanking John, Lori, and others. He was surprised when he revisited the site to learn that his posting had been edited. The section complimentary to Lori and myself had been eliminated. While John is fishing in Panama this week (we talked about the trip on Monday), I do not know who is in charge of moderating the forum.

The question is, Is this or any other forum a free exchange of ideas? It seems to me that if we edit the comments of our participants we are filtering their ideas and we may not be getting the information we need. Oh sure, I believe there should be exceptions for vulgar language or adult content. Other than that, I believe the people that visit this forum and others want to know what people think and they do not want any one to edit it to comply with some one elses agenda. We live in a country based on free speech!

Has this situation happened to anyone on this forum? If so, how did it make you feel? Has this happened to any one on any other forum? It has never happened to me. The only forum that I have ever posted to is this one. I think that a man of high moral integrity Like Phil Lilley would never let anything like this go unchallenged.

[Danoinark]

John

I cannot imagine that happening here. I know that I do have as an administrator abilities here to edit posts, make deletion decisions when I see obscene or questionable spam but to censure or edit someone's post would not be appropriate for me without first passing it on to Phil. There is a thread that dealt with some of this very subject the other day. You can find it here.

http://ozarkanglers.com/forums/index.php?s...amp;hl=offender

Regards

Dano

[Snow Fly]

I don't think you will see those type of problems happen on this forum, Phil commented about these issues the other day as Dano mentioned

[John Berry]

I feel that this is the reason that this forum is superior to others. I look at them and I wonder. How can you learn about the sport unless you read the complete posting of the responder. I do not care about what they think about me . But what about others who may not be as thick skinned? I love the sport and only want to share the pitiful knowledge that I have learned to others. If some one is editing what I say, how can anyone else get the gist of what I am trying to communicate. I was surprised that this would happen on a forum controled by a guide of the reputation of John Wilson. I hope that he will take corrective action on his return to the United States.

[Phil Lilley]

Wow... made me quiver just to read that. I would never think about editing someone's post of it's content... I'm tempted to edit the spelling in some and have suggested to some to put 'http://' at the beginning of url's to make them active links instead of 'www' cause that doesn't do anything. I've fixed pictures at times or links without asking (please forgive me).

My wife says I'm reverting to my "monk age"... being picky.

I don't want to jump to judge especially since John is out of the country... I would think John will have some things to way about it when he returns because it goes to the credibility to his site as to changing the content of someone's post. And creditability is a major component to any publication or internet site.

[John Berry]

Phil,

I respect John and I only want to bring to light something that happened to a close friend of mine. I hope that I am not making any judgements! I just feel that editing the content of posts to any forum is detrimental to that forum. I know that I have enjoyed an incredible amount of freedom on this forum and I wish that all forums were operated with the same ethics as this one. I eagerly await John's return and look forward to his opinion on this situation.

[SilverMallard]

I'm just going to answer your questions factually as I see it.

1. It happens a LOT on FAOL. They view their forums as "theirs" and as an extension of the on-line magazine, which is the majority of their site's content. And they edit it like a magazine. That is inappropriate for a discussion forum in my opinion. It has happened to me with regard to answering questions about William Joseph gear. JC has an "issue" with WJ based purely on the fact that they have not agreed to sponsor the site...although they were interested in doing so until he torqued them off. Interestingly, he doesn't treat Orvis or Bass Pro this way. And they aren't sponsors either.

2. I have seen this sort of thing on John's site before, but not much. And I have never had any interraction with John that would make me think he supports that sort of thing. Quite the opposite. But others who participate heavily in the site seem to try to enforce a sort of cliquishness that is quite unflattering to themselves. I have seen them try to suppress info about people they consider their professional "competitors" and I have seen them outright attack people for thinking outside the box just a bit, ie. Fox Statler on Minimum Flow.

3. Among fly-fishing sites, these are the only two examples of this sort of thing I can think of.

4. Phil takes a VERY high-minded and principled approach to moderating his site that some might think is sometimes not in his own business interests vis a vis Lilley's Landing or his fly shop. It takes integrity and character to take some financial risk for the sake of values. And I admire him for doing so...many, many times in every venue in which I have interracted with or observed him over the years. I will also add that Phil is one of the most tolerant religious conservatives I have met in recent years. He has no problem with people posting alternative viewpoints along those lines right here on his own forums. So I don't think anyone has anything to worry about here. The key is confidence. When you know you're competitive and why you do and believe what you do and believe, other options and viewpoints are not threatening to you. Intolerant people lack confidence in themselves.

[John Berry]

Thank you for the input. I guess I was naive. I thought that you just posted what you thought and the moderator was there to facilitate the conversation not control it. I agree with your assessment of this forum and I wish that they were all like this one. I do not want a clique I want a free and open exchange of ideas and opinions. When you can view all sides of a situation you can then make a more intelligent decision.

[MrsDucky]

Each forum is run at the discretion of it's administrators. If the administrator wants to, he/she can change anything at anytime. They should be run for the purpose they are set up for, with minimum interference, but all of them have that disclaimer (including this one) that anything inappropriate may be changed or deleted at any time. It is up to each administrator to determine whether it is appropriate, inappropriate, or there is the "I just don't like it and I'm in charge!" editing, just like a magazine, or a radio/TV show, or even the things you hear around you everyday. You make your decisions based on other people's responses. If you feel they are inappropriate, you take action-you leave, you tell that person, you ignore their comments, etc. Administrators are human, and sometimes they take their responsibilities too far. I think Phil is human enough to realize we make mistakes, or need to blow off a little steam, without editing anything unless it is wildly inappropriate. But if he wanted to, he (and any other administrator) has the right to edit, talk to the person about their inappropriateness, or ban some one from the site. The people on this site, for the most part, are people who just enjoy fishing! We want to share our experiences, hints, tips, and yes, even silliness. The administrators on here allow us to do that. As many have said on other threads and in person, some fly fisherman have an elitist attitude, and I think that is what is coming out on the other forum. If you want to protect your best tip, then don't share it. There have been hints of that on here, but that was regarding the best hidden streams, which are that way for a reason.

Sometimes, I wish Phil, Dano, and other administrators would edit some of the replies...especially the spelling! But I am so glad they don't. They allow us to argue, help, harass, misspell, and butcher the English language (while arguing about it once in awhile) to our hearts content. It's much easier to defend the First Amendment than the "Your rights end where my fist begins" attitude.

[SilverMallard]

Yes, MsDucky, it is worth mentioning that any site owner has the RIGHT to edit or censor whatever they wish. These sites are private property. If I don't want you to drive my car, it is my right not to lend it to you. If you say or do something while riding in my car that I do not want to tolerate, I am within my rights to pull over and leave you standing on the curb.

However, it is NOT always WISE for them to exercise their rights.