Hybrids in Bull Shoals?????

[SilverMallard]

I gotta agree that when a major fishery like upper BS goes to Hell in a handbasket in a few short years, the fisheries biologists and water quality experts from the state should be all over it like white on rice. There's no excuse. Everybody KNOWS something is wrong. Nobody has a clue WHAT. That's what scientists and the gazillions of tax dollars we toss their way in good years and bad are there for!

[Bill Butts]

The apparent multiple negative effects on the Upper Bull Shoals fishery is a mystery that has sport fishermen and conservation pros puzzled and lacking definitive answers. Yes, it is interesting that the MDC has not been more proactive on this.

If the issue only involved White Bass, I could see why MDC would take a "wait and see" attitude. White Bass have been rightfully called the "nearly perfect gamefish from a fisheries biologist perspective", and from the fishermen's perspective, for many years.

Since it has apparently affected other important species like LMB and Crappie, this would seem to point obviously to other-than low stream flows since those two species don't depend on tributaries for their spawning grounds.

White Bass don't require stocking or supplemental stocking to maintain adequate catchable numbers for a fishery, and they are very prolific, self-sustaining fish provided they have adequate clean gravel-bedded streams to distribute their eggs.

As one of you mentioned in an earlier post, I too recall many years of fishing for White Bass during the spring spawn (back to the mid-70's). Some years the water was low and some years it seems we just got a few days of fishable water before the next rain brought unfishable conditions for several days. We always figured the high water years really helped boost the overall spawn by limiting the harvest of mature females, therefore creating a particularly large year-class of fish. On the other hand, one might argue that excessively high and muddy water could have created enough silt to have killed many of the eggs. My guess is that both factors were correct to some extent. Anyway, it seemed over the years we always had good populations of Whites to catch from Powersite Dam to well below K Dock, including Beaver and Swan Creeks in the spring.

Extreme low water conditions for tributaries of our Ozarks lakes has to have some negative effects on successful spawn of any fish spawning in that stream whether resident smallmouth or lake-run Whites, but I don't know if anyone knows for sure how to quantify that. And further, if it happens say several years out of a 10 year span that's not good either.

A factor that wasn't commented on very much in this thread is water quality. I believe this is absolutely a factor, too, but again it would be difficult to quantify scientifically without a study with quite a few years history to review. So, we're already behind the 8-ball on that if it was deemed necessary to study.

Back in the 80's, the Friends of Lake Taneycomo (FOLT) organization was reorganized to address fishery and water quality issues that were created from point and non-point source pollution, and rampant poorly planned development along and within the watershed of Upper Lake Taneycomo that ultimately affected the trout population and the food they eat.

As water quality studies were carried out by a science professor at College of the Ozarks with sample collecting assistance from the FOLT, it became very evident that we probably wouldn't have had much of a fishery at that point if it weren't for the water releases at TR Dam virtually "flushing the toilet" periodically to wash all the pollutants downriver. So, where did it go?

Obviously, all that crappy water along with the effluent from the Branson City Treatment Plant had to pass through lower Taneycomo on its way to Upper Bull Shoals Lake. I would find it difficult to believe there has not been some serious affects from this factor. But, again, how do you quantify that and factor it in with the other factors to understand why our fish populations in Upper BS have declined?

Didn't the water quality, fish populations and fishing all decline for some years in the James River arm of TR Lake as a result of effluent from Springfield, Nixa and Ozark? Not that the water quality is great now, but my understanding is that it has improved and the fishing has improved as well.

And, of course, the affects of farm waste run-off (poultry, hog and cattle) into both Beaver and TRock Lakes hasn't helped either. That's another issue that will ultimately have to be dealt with, as more Boomers retire and seek to settle in the Ozarks for their "golden years" expecting to have clean air and clean water to enjoy.

Lots of factors to consider. And, so do we stand back and complain or do we collectively push for action and answers from those who are qualified to analyze and create workable solutions?

Thanks to all of you for your insight, knowledge and genuine concern for our rich Ozarks resources.

Bill

[crappiefisherman]

If I may say something, If its from polution from upstream, why isnt lower taneycomo dead.I believe its lake levels that cause the problems.I believe that tablerock takes priority over bull shoals and tcomo everytime.If they ran water through the gates on a regular day to day basis and kept upper bull shoals a tad cooler then bath water during the summer months<it isnt all that deep up on this end> and if table rock didnt have to be at powerpool or very close all the time so certain large unnamed boats could bob around out there, I think the fishery c ould be saved or at least greatly improved.I am a crappie fisherman and actually last year was very good for me on kdock.It may have been because I didnt get excited and chase surfacing fish and concentrated on my crappie.I dont know, but extremely large schools of gar are there and I think thats because of the water temp and depth.I also remeber the good ole days 30 or so years ago, I also remember bull shoals wasnt let so low so long back then, it seemed to even be high a good portion of the time.but table rock seemed to fluctuate a lot.Maybe if someone could find a source in the corp of engineers that has been there for quite a spell, poss they could shed some light on the subject.Maybe the priorities are differant now.I guess Ive rambled on enough.Have a wonderful day friends.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I hear you Sam and I'm not dismissing the pollution angle, but it all, or the bulk of it, has to pass through TR, and its suppose to be improving. If you look at BS and think about what is missing, or added, its timber, a stable water level during the spawn, and decent flows frmom the tribs, and whats added has been another predator fish. I don't see how nest builders like Bass and Crappie can spawn very often when the water flucuates as much as it has the last few years.

As far as fish going up stream with thier backs out of the water, it only means they want to spawn. I can remember when they would run up the Little Pomme a few hundred yards from the mouth and stack up in in pools a foot deep. If you really wanted to catch fish you'd hit the shoals above the Fairfield bridge on the big Pomme, where they would have enough flow to spawn and where the bulk returned.

Tax you mention shoals above Swan, but there are only 2 that I know of and the best is at the mouth of Silver, which hasn't had a good flow in awhile, and thats probably why the fish of late have been of good size.

[Tightline]

Wayne, the point I was trying to make was even in much worse conditions than we have right now the Whites managed to have some kind of spawn,yes, there have been good,not so good and bad years of White population,but nothing that I can remember as bad as it is now.Like Bill B said the Whites have always been prolific spawners,if there is any way to loose those eggs they will do it be it up Swan or below the Wheeler shoal, Silver creek or at the dam.

There is so much said about Whites needing flow to spawn or have the spawn hatch.But there are decent populations of White bass that spawn in Aunts Creek,Little Aunts Creek,Big and little Indian at Baxter, and I have also caught them in the backs of Yocum and Mincy creeks on Bull Shoals in the spring just full of bloody eggs.All of these arms of the Lakes have little or no flow,but yet they do hatch some of their spawn,they arent huge populations but they are there.

I truly hope that it is just low water or lake levels thats making this dive in population,but it just hard for me to believe that is the only problem.They will come back and theres still time this year for a good run,hopefully.I am sure if they made it through the dry years of the fiftys they will make it through this.

[Forsythian]

Guys, I've been enjoying the discussion and the various theories on the declining fishery. I think I can add something to the pollution angle.

I've been lake sampling for the University of Missouri "Lakes of Missouri Volunteer Program" for going on 10 years now. From April to October I take samples and water clarity measurements at K dock and the mouth of Mincy Creek. The labs measure nitrates, phosphates, and chlorophyl (algae estimate). Believe it or not, there is a definite trend of cleaner water during this time, especially since 1999. In fact, since 1992 the levels of nitrogen and phosphorous have never been lower than from 2003 to present-day.

This trend is mirrored with Taneycomo, and is generally believed to be linked to improvements in the Branson treatment plant.

So, anyway, this study wouldn't capture all pollutants, but for sure it rules out sewage. In fact, some might speculate that the reduction in algaes below a certain level is not good for fishing (bottom of the food chain and all that).

Carry on!

[Sam]

I take samples and water clarity measurements at K dock and the mouth of Mincy Creek. The labs measure nitrates, phosphates, and chlorophyl (algae estimate).

Forsythian - That's interesting. It's good (I think) that the water is getting "cleaner" in upper Bull Shoals. But since you're only testing for fertilizers, maybe that's not so good.

As you said, those tests wouldn't show any hazardous pollutants - motor oil, chemicals, insecticides, whatever - that would really hurt the fishing if they're present.

And you've got me wondering if the reduction in water fertility you report isn't a big part of the problem in itself. As you mentioned, algae is at the bottom of the food chain that supports everything else that lives in a lake.

We had a new pond dug on our place here a few years ago, and I went to MFA on their "fish day" to get some baby bluegills, bass, and channel cats to put in it. Our local MFA has a fish truck come by from an Arkansas fish farm once every couple of months for that purpose.

When I told the man from the fish farm I was stocking a new pond, he said I shouldn't put fish in it right away because they'd starve. He told me that keeping a pond balanced is like growing a good garden - you can't do it without nutrients. He said to spread about 10 pounds of 13-13-13 fertilizer on the water to get a good algae bloom going, then to put some minnows into it. Then, when the truck came back in two months I could introduce game fish.

That's what I did, and within 2 weeks of adding the fertilizer the pond had a lot of algae. I didn't want to introduce unknown species of fish from a creek, so I went to a tackle shop and bought 5 dozen shiner minnows. Boy, did they reproduce. Within a few weeks the pond was just full of minnows - and I actually should have kept it that way and raised my own bait.

But I didn't, I added hybrid bluegills, largemouth bass, and channel catfish - and the minnows didn't disappear completely but they sure got thinned out. The game fish are doing fine in the pond, and through every spring and summer I add more fertilizer.

Anyway - our Ozarks lakes, like my pond, are on very infertile soil. They're sitting on limestone and they won't even grow water weeds. While it's nice to talk about the water in Bull Shoals being "cleaner", reducing nitrates and phosphates may be a lot of what's hurting the fishing. From what you say, that's a real change in the water composition during the same time the fishing has gone downhill.

I sure didn't know those fertilizers are on the decline in Bull Shoals, and I think that may be an interesting part of the puzzle.

[taxidermist]

Lack of tourist dollars is a main reason the MDC is not paying attention to upper BS. Finacially it does not make cents to put money into something with a low return on the dollar.

Same reason AGFC stopped stocking stripers in BS. MT HOme chamber really pushes Norfork, the lake is smaller and stripers are easier to find.

Ditto Beaver Lake.

As for the White bass I have fished way up Long Creek where you could not get a boat and caught spawning Whites. If you have a map I have caught spawning whites south of Denver. But that was back in the early 80's

Long Creek dont have the massive white spawns of years ago, so maybe it is pollution Poulty houses, etc.

The first thing to look at is water quality, yes you would think it would effect lower TACOMO first, but maybe its flowing fast enough to not be effected as badly.

Look at the amounts of land that have been dozed, been cleared for subdivisions, then you have to look at see the amounts of fertilizers applied by home owners who dont know what they are doing.

All these factors add up. Then you have the needed amount of DOLLARS to fix the problem and low return on those dollars.

THE MDC and the AGFC dont throw good dollars after bad dollars.

John

[SilverMallard]

Nutrient loads have an ideal range. Too little is not good and too much is horrible. When the science says nutrient loads are "improving" in our fisheries, it means they are moving from way too high (as they were in the 70s through 90s) back DOWN into the ideal range (as they are today). Nutrient loading isn't all fertilizer. It is also effluent from WTPs and septic systems and such. Water quality isn't a zero sum game. It's about balance.