big Ozark river smallmouths

[hank franklin]

Al, earlier you mentioned a photo you have of a hybrid spot / smallie. Please post that if you can. We've caught a few suspected hybrids in the past couple years.

Regarding Tavern Creek, never been there but have made some inquiries and have been told by decent sources that there's "no problem" with accesses, fishing, etc. Heard from one kayaker that it's a nice stream when the water is up. I'd like to go there too.

[Al Agnew]

I've only been on Tavern once. Put in at an MDC access next to an ancient suspended bridge--a swinging bridge that cars could still cross--don't remember the name of it offhand. Small water, barely big enough to canoe. Nice creek.

[Wayne SW/MO]

I haven't caught any Spots on the Gasconade, Osage Fork, or the Niangua. I've fished a lot of the O Fork to the confluence, but only the upper of the G'nade and Niangua. The Niangua has a small population of Largemouths all through it, or so it seems.

I caught a hybrid on the lower part of Bryant last spring, but no Spots.

Personally my belief is that lower spring flows coupled with low water levels gives Spots the extra warmth they need to flourish if they can make it to the area. I would think that they possibly move in the winter when cold water is actually warm water, then when summer comes there is not enough cold water to drive them back.

[Bill Butts]

Al~

I had forgotten about the natural tunnel below the Dam. The manmade tunnel is of course just above the Dam. It is amazing how small the stream below the Dam is, and my guess is that the natural tunnel draws off quite a bit of the flow of the tailwater.

Checking Oz Hawksley's MO Ozark Waterways Guide Book, he notes a distance of 6 miles from the Dam around the ridge to the outflow of the hydroelectric power plant outflow coming thru the mountain. The few times I've driven across the low-water bridge (below the Dam about 2 miles) and up the ridge, the stream has been very small.

The unpredictable factor for fishing the river below the power plant is not knowing when and/or how much the flow will be. The few locals I've talked with have stated it is a tricky stream to navigate and wade for that reason.

If a fisherman is looking for great stream fishing for smallmouth, they need to concentrate on the river above Lake Niangua. By the way, it is about 32 river miles from the confluence with Bennett Spring to the upper end of Lake Niangua. An old fishing buddy of mine used to be married into a family that owned a cabin on that cool little lake. He told many stories of LMB and Crappie, but not Spots.

Again, the river below the power plant must be a sleeper of a hotspot for White, Hybrid and Striped Bass. It has been challenging to find many locals that really understand that fishery. I hope to move the learning curve forward during 2007.

Bill

[Bill Butts]

BrianK~

It's interesting you bring up the question about Tavern Creek. I have an old friend who is from Iberia and fished both the Tavern and Little Tavern for decades. Not sure if he fishes it now, but I do recall him saying it isn't the stream it was years ago. So what else is new!

I would encourage you to learn both streams especially since it's in your neighborhood and it also feeds the lower Osage River which is a literal smorgasboard of fish.

There would be no question in my mind that the Tavern and several other small feeder streams would also get some White and Hybrid Striped Bass especially in strong flow years (maybe now?).

Anyone have any knowledge of this? Brian, my suggestion is for you to contact the Conservation Agent(s) in that county(s) for good reliable info, including access info. They are usually very nice and helpful.

Good luck. If you need further assistance, don't hesitate to ask, or PM me.

Bill

[creek wader]

To those of you that inquired about Tavern Creek, I've fished it quite a few times last year. It's a great stream. I've accessed it at many points. Right under the Hwy 42 bridge it's diffucult, but worth it. You can access it from the west but, the there's a state sign saying no trespassing. So, I've went over the bridge and walked back, quite a ways. I've only waded it. Last year, with the small amount of rainfall, the clarity was unbelieveable. But, the fish were real spooky. Had to sneak up on them. The only largemouths that I ever caught on the Tavern, were a pair of 18 inchers, right under the Hwy 42 bridge.

I done quite well on the smallies, in all areas, that I've fished. No great size but, a good amount of 10" - 15" fish. I only catch and release, anyway. I've had no problems with landowners, yet. I've either accessed it under bridges or at MDC areas. I never did use my Kayak. But, was limited without it. I haven't encountered any white bass or hybrids. Maybe some closer to the mouth, especially since the rains that we got recently. I've never mentioned this stream before, it's kind of my "home" stream, so I kinda wanted to keep it to myself. I've never seen anyone else on it. It's solitude. But, most people on this site seem to be pretty responsible so, I don't mind giving out info on it. If you want anymore info, let me know. I've probably fished it a good 25 times last year.

[Bill Butts]

Creek Wader~

Thanks for the great post on Tavern Creek.

Sounds like you're gaining a good knowledge of it, and thanks for your catch and release practice. Do you fish ultralight spinning, fly rod, or both?

Your yak would obviously be the key to accessing places you can't by foot, even if you just use it for transportation and get out to wade.

If you are interested in exploring the potential opportunities for Whites and Hybrids, you would need to locate the first shoal above Osage River backwater (if there is some) and concentrate your efforts from the first deep hole below that shoal up to the second or third shoal.

As I mentioned previously, the local MDC Agent could and should be a good resource of info if local fishermen catch those fish in the spring, and perhaps similar small streams that get spawning runs of fish from the Osage. Secondarily, determining the Fisheries Biologist responsible for the Osage River would be another potentially great resource.

Let me know if I can help you in any way.

Bill

[drew03cmc]

Al, I understand the hurt, but fisheries folks stock what they think will work, where they think it will work under most circumstances, right? Therefore, unless we pool our resources and get together to speak to the state about the loss of the greatest NATURALLY occurring fish in our state, they will likely not do too much about the infestations.

If you wanted to do something, I would be more than happy to help in any way possible.

[Al Agnew]

Drew, MDC is trying to do something. The biologist in charge of smallmouth management knows how bad the spotted bass can be on streams where they are not native...he calls them "evil little critters". On the entire Meramec River system, there is a 12 fish limit with no length limit on spotted bass to try to stem their take-over. It's coupled with a 1 fish 15 inch limit on smallmouths over much of Big River. I'd like to see something close to complete protection of smallmouths and no protection of spotted bass on the stream sections where they are in the process of taking over, but the present limits seem to be the best MDC can do...there is always a lot of resistance to "radical" changes in regulations.

I keep all spotted bass I catch in these streams, up to the legal limit. Problem is, they are very heavily infested with yellow grub parasites in Big River, so much so that some of them are just too full of grubs to be appetizing, so I end up throwing them away when I get home and make the first cut with the fillet knife. I'm not exaggerating, some of them are so heavily infested that you'd be eating a dozen or more grubs with each bite! I don't mind a few grubs, and they are usually easy to pick out with the point of your knife as you are filleting them, but it just ain't worth it when they are that infested.

Unfortunately, too many bass anglers have gotten catch and release drummed into them to the point that they can't conceive of killing ANY bass, even when it would improve the fishery.

Please, if you're fishing the Meramec or Gasconade river systems, and catching legal spotted bass, KEEP THEM!

[BrianK]

Just got back from the N. Fork, couldn't stay away. Figured with the crazy weather lately, i'd stick with the cold water fishery.

Well, not much to report. 2 rainbows in very high water...but that's another thread. nice day though.

Thanks guys for the good info above.

Creekwader, you must live nearby now or else that's alot of trips from StJo.

I do appreciate the info on your home stream and from previous threads/posts, i think we all agree to protect especially the small gems. I've been canoing more the past couple summers and thought i'd do some more sloshing and exploring this year with the kids. I've fished the Maries alot and figured Tavern would probably be similar. I'll know it's you if i see anyone else out there.

Bill-

I agree with talking with local agents or the biologists. They have always been a great resource. Last summer was the first time getting on the middle sections of the Niangua. was very nice. I'd like to also check out the stretch from Lead Mine to L. Niangua as well as below the dam.

If the weather stays warm this wk maybe i'll check out Tunnel dam next Sun afternoon??? thanks for your help.

Hank- you mentioned O Fork. Have only fished it from Dryknob to Davis and upstream from B bridge. Driving home today, i drove down to the Orla bridge (hi, muddy) just to check out access. Mr. Plaster (Empire Ranch) has a big sign posted basically saying no wading up from bridge and that he owns the air, water, fish, streambed etc up from there. He has the same sign posted on the first crossing upstream of Hwy 5. That is a pretty long private and probably very fishy stretch of water.(7.3mi) What's it take for a guy to get in there? May be a question for the local agent and Mr Plaster. Anyone ever ask him? Anyone ever float through that stretch? Can you take out on the downriver side of the Orla bridge? (didn't look posted)Do you have to go all the way up to Hwy J and put in there? ok , that's a lot of questions.....

I'm somewhat familiar with the wade/ tresspass laws.

My interpretation: It basically varies by stream, definition of navigability, landowner, conservation agent, police, town, etc. If posted get permission to wade or take your chances. If nothing posted then more like 'don't ask, don't tell'. If posted but floatable, need to access at a public spot and float thru. That is where it gets a little cloudy though since I (and most of us) will be getting out the canoe to wade and fish. This may open a can of worms and i know this is an age old debate. Any thoughts?

Brian