MDC income

[Chief Grey Bear]

I'll answer for gf...it's not hard to tell what he wants to know.

Where the hell does the money go, all of it...even a cpa stated with records, reports, if he ran his business like they did he would have no clients...must be nice to have to show no accountability ( or lumped in such a broad spectrum ) or even keep up to date annual reports ( not like they don't have the office help to do so )...most don't have that priveledge.

We can break it down harder if you want...gotta feeling some are trying, lol

If all you two want is to know where every last penny went, you ain't gonna get it. Can you say where every penny of yours went last year? Last week? Honestly? If you said yes, I don't believe you. Nothing agaist you personally, I just wouldn't believe you.

Plus that ain't all GF is crying about but all he says is he wants them to do a better job. Better at what?

Yeah, go ahead and break it down. Obviously all the info posted to you two about where the money is going is not good enough.

I don't feel keeping one less trout is some huge scandle. And again with no response I have asked him how we are being duped. I think some just like to gripe just to gripe.

If you two have such a dislike for the MDC, then boycott their functions and facilities. That will show them!

[Chief Grey Bear]

How about a few men on tractors working on re-establishing habitat for vanishing small game species, prarie chickens, quail, etc....instead we get task forces, commitees, studies, meetings...no one to stick a shovel in the ground...hand tools are kinda frowned upon imo by most people...especially state employees.

Now I will whole heartedly agree here. As I have stated before, I am not happy with EVERYTHING they do. But I do belive we are getting a good value for our money.

I do think that a former director or two has lead the department in a direction that is something different than where I think it should have been going. I'm not in agreement with all of their practices, but I sure do enjoy the facilities they have for me and YOU to use.

[brownieman]

I didn't think you knew. I would love to see that shotgun you use that has buckshot that is just a little bit smaller that 2 or 3 oz though.

Brilliant thought. I would have nerver thought it.

I live and work in the rual area. I see all types of things. What is it you want to show me?

sorry to disappoint gb...never have shot a duck or any type waterfowl

just would hope you see first hand where the bulk of the money is spent...if you're a hick like me...imagine you do, lol

fyi...never even killed a deer...shot em with a camera...killed 1 turkey, no big pump off that

i'll take a bend in my rod above all else...

[brownieman]

If all you two want is to know where every last penny went, you ain't gonna get it. Can you say where every penny of yours went last year? Last week? Honestly? If you said yes, I don't believe you. Nothing agaist you personally, I just wouldn't believe you.

Plus that ain't all GF is crying about but all he says is he wants them to do a better job. Better at what?

Yeah, go ahead and break it down. Obviously all the info posted to you two about where the money is going is not good enough.

I don't feel keeping one less trout is some huge scandle. And again with no response I have asked him how we are being duped. I think some just like to gripe just to gripe.

If you two have such a dislike for the MDC, then boycott their functions and facilities. That will show them!

i can't account for every penny i spend but at least i earned it and it's mine to spend...be a fool to tell you otherwise...c-mon

"That will show them"...nice sarcasm but a futile attempt my friend.

It has nothing to do with like or dislike, jeeeeez...it has all to do with our tax dollars being "Wisely" used at any level... and as you say the 2 of us...think it's a little more than 2 my friend

[gonefishin]

HMmmm. I am not totally against the MDC. I would not want to make things worse. I just wonder if things could be a lot better for the amount of money they take in. I am not anti-MDC I just wonder if they are really doing that good of a job. No doubt Missourians have it good because of MDC, the flip side of that is that MDC has it really good because of Missourians. The question I keep coming up with is do we really have it that good for what it is costing us?

I am not asking where every last cent went. I would be happy if it was broke down in $100,000 increments or even $250,000 increments.

70 Mil in wages and bennies .... for how many people? I don't think the agents are making all that good of money so administration must be taking home some really nice pay checks.

Still spending 30 to 40 mil per year on land purchases? Lets look at that for a minute. We don't want to get things 'down to the last penny' so lets give the benefit of the doubt and just say the have averaged the same 30 to 40 mil every year for the last 30 years. We know they have spent way more than this but I dont want to be accused of worrying about every penny. $35million*30years=$ 1,050,000,000 Lets just round that down to and even 1 Billion. How many acres does 1 Billion dollars buy? Has MDC purchased that much land for the public?

I am willing to accept any answers if they stand up to some scrutiny. So far the answers I have gotten don't add up. That being said I am going to quit posting in this topic because we can't get a decent discussion of the issues going here.

[brownieman]

I'm tryin gf...

An honest reasonable answer...well...what can I say.

It is indeed a double edged sword, hate to see it.

You mentioned pay...whenever you hear of the gov. telling about state empoyees are getting a 5% raise this or any year, remember...5% of $80,000 is allot more than %5 of $25,000.

IMO why couldn't there be set dollar increases for all?...go figure, lol

guess this is the "System" and we as taxpayers get taxed to no end...matters like this...well... imo they just sit back and talk...it'll blow over, give er a little time and we'll dodge this bullet too...we are to just go on our merry way, tuck our tails...maybe wet ourselves a little and keep on payin with no expectations or explainations.

Makes little sense to me but hey, what does anymore. All I can say imo they have a pretty good thing goin and they keep their tools well oiled. When huge amounts of money are involved I don't need to tell you what happens...you are one i feel knows my friend.

It all comes back to accountability with me...or should I say the lack there of

[Al Agnew]

Want to know how much land they have that the public can use, right now? Get the newest edition of the "Missouri's Conservation Atlas". Tells the exact acreage of every parcel in every county. Might take you a while to add it all up. Just a few random samples--

Andrew County in the Northwest Region (which is where the least amount of public land is found...no national forests, etc.)--9316 acres.

Caldwell County (Northwest region)--1856 acres (only two parcels)

Clinton County (Northwest region)--two parcels, only 136 acres...one of the parcels is a river access.

Grundy County (Northwest)--two river accesses only...83 acres.

Holt County (Northwest)--14,023 acres

Linn County (Northwest)--only 4 parcels, but a total of 9774 acres.

Livingston County (Northwest)--only 4 parcels here, too, but 12,925 acres

Clark (Northeast)--6554 acres

Monroe County (Northeast)--1354 acres (4 river accesses, 2 Conservation Areas)

Pike County (Northeast)--23,611 acres, includes 6 river accesses, the 4,026 acre Ted Shanks CA, and the 14,907 acre Upper Mississippi CA.

Sullivan County (Northeast)--11,968 acres

Benton County (lower Truman, upper Lake Ozark)--14,469 acres

Henry County (upper Truman area)--29,993 acres

Jackson County (Kansas City area)--6294 acres (in 20 parcels)

Boone County (Columbia area)--13,055 acres

Gasconade County (lower Gasconade area)--1523 acres

Miller County (Bagnell Dam and downstream on the Osage)--5321 acres

Crawford County (upper Meramec area)--13,315 acres

St. Charles County (adjoins St. Louis)--35,214 acres

St. Louis County--23,129 acres (36 parcels)

Barry County--4568 acres

Christian County--2566 acres (3 river accesses and a CA)

Greene County (Springfield)--5530 acres

Jasper County (Southwest)--198 acres

McDonald County (Southwest)--6878 acres

Stone County--3419 acres

Carter County (Current River)--52,924 acres (includes the Peck Ranch CA, 23,049 acres, most of which MDC had prior to the sales tax, and the Current River CA,29,331 acres, bought with the sales tax).

Oregon County (Eleven Point River)--235 acres

Ozark County (Bull Shoals and Norfork)--8175 acres (does not include the 34,736 acres around Bull Shoals and 4861 acres around Norfork that MDC manages).

I didn't cherry pick these counties, just listed them at random.

According to an older and easier to count version of the atlas, there were 343 river accesses at that time.

I could give you more stuff, but I'm tired of calculating!

[brownieman]

Al,

Thanks for your input...least you're making a lagit effort and conduct yourself in a professional manner...more than I can say for some.

If any hard facts and figures and real answers come to light...it's big money vs small money.

IMO the little guys generally get squashed...

Only thing i can figure is maybe my eyes have seen things others have not...if you're the man I believe you are...well...imo things I've seen would sicken you also.

Bet you are tired of crunching numbers, lol

[Chief Grey Bear]

Al,

Thanks for your input...least you're making a lagit effort and conduct yourself in a professional manner...more than I can say for some.

If any hard facts and figures and real answers come to light...it's big money vs small money.

IMO the little guys generally get squashed...

Only thing i can figure is maybe my eyes have seen things others have not...if you're the man I believe you are...well...imo things I've seen would sicken you also.

Bet you are tired of crunching numbers, lol

Oh my, a little finger pointing huh? The ol' "Not me".

As CC said earlier even a slite effort in research could have yielded the information that Al so generously provided.

GF-

Last I knew agents started at $30k. Not bad. Then mutilply that by 1.5 and that should be in the neighborhood of the total annual compansation.

"I am not anti-MDC I just wonder if they are really doing that good of a job. No doubt Missourians have it good because of MDC, the flip side of that is that MDC has it really good because of Missourians."

Missourians are not the only ones footing the bill. All visitors to our great state also contribute. I also feel it is because of strict educational and continuing education standards that has made the MDC the great program that it is.

[jdmidwest]

Has anyone tired of beating this dead horse yet??

Oh yeah, my real name is JOHN HOSKINS, anybody know who I am????