MDC income

[Al Agnew]

MDC river accesses on the Meramec River--17.

Accesses before the sales tax--2.

Accesses on the Bourbeuse River--9.

Accesses before the sales tax--0.

Accesses on Big River--6.

Accesses before the sales tax--0.

Number of MDC areas with disabled-accessible facilities--68.

Areas with Disabled-accessible docks and jetties--42.

D-A trails--19.

D-A deer/turkey blinds--3.

D-A waterfowl blinds--10.

D-A wildlife viewing blinds--8.

D-A restrooms--54.

Number of MDC areas in my home county--4.

Before the sales tax--0.

Number in the county I grew up in--11.

Number before the sales tax--1.

Number of MDC river accesses I've used personally--71.

Number of these that existed prior to the sales tax--4.

[Chief Grey Bear]

Great work Al! I'm glad you took the time to compile that data and post here. I find that to be more useful information than the blog that claims banning lead shot from popular waterfoul hunting areas as the MDC trying to ban hunting.

[gonefishin]

Hey, as long as you guys are happy with everything they have done...good. For myself I think they could do a better job. From what I have read the fishing and hunting public still put most of the money into the MDC but we are way down on the list of priorities.

[brownieman]

Great work Al! I'm glad you took the time to compile that data and post here. I find that to be more useful information than the blog that claims banning lead shot from popular waterfoul hunting areas as the MDC trying to ban hunting.

Yes Al...great work ! IMO nothing more than a recipe in another "cookbook" Are these your figures or were they handed to you from someone within ? Just my opinion...but it seems to me you sir you are first in line to defend the MDC's actions and imo you know exactly why you do...all the rest just wonder why.

...and C G...imo you are hooked and being reeled in as we speak. The blog you refer to I assume "Take Back the MDC", you have the right just as I to believe what you will. IMO it's one of the only freedoms we enjoy that some entity, faction, whatever will never have control of my friend.

There are quotes in there from MDC employee's, why do you think they are anonymous?

Myself...I beleive what I have seen and experienced...the rest imo often times is a smoke screen, rumor, propoganda, etc. There are many things cloaked by secrecy and people often use these given facts and figures as a platform which they feel they need to to defend their opinions/beliefs. It is the most uesful tool available to them, so...you speak of rumors...I ask of you, are you speaking from experience, things you have witnessed or otherwise? I can take you on a road trip around the state and show you where my opinions derive from and will allow you the same priveledge...then we will discuss the matter, fair enouph?

The Disabilities Act...Al, due to this that is where the bulk of the money has gone concerning your " statistics"...and you know as well as I why. Let me put it this way, it's there for all to enjoy...even the handicapped, impaired and mentally challenged...quite a nice feather to stick in ones hat, huh ?

My intent is not meant to be invasive, abrasive or directed at any one group or individual...rather it is an effort to raise awareness...wade through the clutter so to speak. People need facts and figures to figure it all out. Most I have read on this thread just want to know one simple thing...

where are their tax dollars really being spent and is the money being wisely used...imo the truth lies within and well protected. Propoganda is a prevalent force concerning most any topic where large chunks of money are concerned...from the highest to the lowest levels.

IMO people just want to know the truth, plain and simple...it should not be hard to get the answers they are asking but it seems to me answers are hard to get...just makes me wonder, why ?

[gonefishin]

MDC river accesses on the Meramec River--17.

Accesses before the sales tax--2.

Accesses on the Bourbeuse River--9.

Accesses before the sales tax--0.

Accesses on Big River--6.

Accesses before the sales tax--0.

Number of MDC areas with disabled-accessible facilities--68.

Areas with Disabled-accessible docks and jetties--42.

D-A trails--19.

D-A deer/turkey blinds--3.

D-A waterfowl blinds--10.

D-A wildlife viewing blinds--8.

D-A restrooms--54.

Number of MDC areas in my home county--4.

Before the sales tax--0.

Number in the county I grew up in--11.

Number before the sales tax--1.

Number of MDC river accesses I've used personally--71.

Number of these that existed prior to the sales tax--4.

How many hundreds of millions did the items on this list cost?

Somebody on here said there were literally hundreds if not thousands of MDC areas. According to your list there are 68 that have some sort of disability access. I notice most of these are restrooms. As far as I know all public restrooms built in the last several years are designated DA. They are really going out of their way to help out huh?

[Al Agnew]

Geez, guys, I'm not affiliated with MDC. What I have been is alive and fishing and hunting in MO since BEFORE the sales tax. Those figures I quoted? The figures for river accesses on the Meramec, Big River, and Bourbeuse are strictly from my own experience, since I've been fishing those three rivers since before the sales tax, and I can tell you where all the accesses are and which ones were there before the sales tax, from memory. Ditto with the Conservation Areas in St. Francois and Ste. Genevieve counties, where I grew up and live. I went through the Conservation Atlas to count up the number of accesses I've used, and also went back to one of my vintage Ozark Waterways books, from 1975 or so, to see which ones were there back then. The handicapped facilities came directly from the Conservation Atlas.

It seems that a lot of you either weren't around before 1976, and so don't remember how many Conservation areas and accesses there were before then. The VAST majority of lands owned by MDC today were acquired since the advent of the sales tax. And like I said before, the whole plan was to spend the first ten years or so of the sales tax to acquire as much land as possible, then to scale back on acquisition in order to develop and maintain the lands they had. So yes, the majority of lands were probably acquired 20 years or more ago, and you may not be aware that they were bought with the sales tax.

I too would like to know just how much of the sales tax is going toward maintaining and developing the lands they own. It seems that there are places that are languishing, owned by MDC but undeveloped.

As far as buying more land now...let's take a look at river accesses. It probably takes at least 5 acres to make a usable access. Know what Ozark riverfront land is going for? Land that is easy access to all-weather roads? I've been shopping for land myself, and I can tell you that a 5 acre access probably is going to cost at least $75,000 and depending upon the area, up to $200,000. And that's not including building a road into it and a parking lot, not to mention a concrete boat ramp. Hunting areas? You probably need at least a couple hundred acres to make a decent hunting area. Land prices in the Ozarks are such that a hunting area is going to cost you at least $150,000 to $200,000. Close to town it's going to cost a lot more than that. Doesn't take much land buying to cut a big chunk out of that sales tax these days, which is one reason why the emphasis was on buying land in the early days.

[gonefishin]

Al: I want to thank you for the info you have posted on here. You at least attempt to answer some questions. Affiliated with them or not doesn't matter to me. It takes two sides to have a productive discussion. So for my part I wnat to say thank you for your input.

[creek wader]

Wow! I just read most of these posts. Very interesting. I just ask this one question. Name any city, county, state, of Fed. agency that you get this much bang per buck, out of your tax dollar. I feel that all my other tax dollars are pretty much squandered away. But, I see alot of results from the MDC.

[Chief Grey Bear]

...and C G...imo you are hooked and being reeled in as we speak. The blog you refer to I assume "Take Back the MDC", you have the right just as I to believe what you will. IMO it's one of the only freedoms we enjoy that some entity, faction, whatever will never have control of my friend.

Ha! I ain't hooked on nothing but reality. Yes I am talking about that blog. Do you know why they have banned lead shot in these areas? Or do you believe they are trying to ban hunting?

There are quotes in there from MDC employee's, why do you think they are anonymous?

ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ. There goes more line off the real. I now claim to be an employee of the MDC. See how easy that is.

Somebody on here said there were literally hundreds if not thousands of MDC areas. According to your list there are 68 that have some sort of disability access. I notice most of these are restrooms. As far as I know all public restrooms built in the last several years are designated DA. They are really going out of their way to help out huh?

Last I knew there were 900 and some change. There are some areas that have not been opended up yet.

Al: I want to thank you for the info you have posted on here. You at least attempt to answer some questions. Affiliated with them or not doesn't matter to me. It takes two sides to have a productive discussion. So for my part I wnat to say thank you for your input.

GF I have asked you on numerous occasions what it is you want. What more it is you want them to do. You have not answered yet.

When you said it takes two sides to have a productive discussion, that also includes you.

[gonefishin]

GF I have asked you on numerous occasions what it is you want. What more it is you want them to do. You have not answered yet.

When you said it takes two sides to have a productive discussion, that also includes you.

Sure it includes me. I thought I had made it clear. I want to know what is happening to the money. Everyone says most of the land was purchased in the first 10 years of the 1/8th cent tax. What has happened to the money for the last ohhh, I don't know, lets say 15 years. I have heard some say they have put in access points and it costs maybe 200,000 to put in an access point. OK lets use that figure. That is 5 points for every million or 500 access points per year X the 15 years we are talking about. There aren't that many access points. I know they wouldn't spend all the money on access points so lets say they put in 50 per year thats 650 or 10 mil per year so where was the rest of the 90 plus mil per year spent? I just don't see much going on for the kind of money they are taking in. What I think I see is license fees and grants paying for everything and the 1/8th cent sales tax being (?) going where.

Another thing I would like to see is handicapped people be able to actually use the little handicap access there is. Most days the handicapped access is used by non-handicapped persons. I would like to see a little support by the MDC for people with handicaps. Do you ever go to BS? The main handicap access there is the whistle bridge. A handicap person cant get on that bridge. Not to mention that it seems a tad strange to make a bridge, with traffic on it, a handicap access.

Since the inception of the 1/8th cent sales tax the MDC has taken in somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 billion dollars on the 1/8th cent sales tax alone. Do you think there has really been that kind of improvements? This doesn't take in the amount of money taken in for permits or donations or federal grants and donations or day use fees, camping fees or anything else. We are talking of the special sales tax only.