need some bass advice

[Gavin]

They could certainly use a few more agents and a few less pencil pushers.

Not sure about the effects of Shocking on fish populations..I helped with the trout sample on the upper Current last year and I only recall one dead trout out the hundreds that I handled on the two days I participated. Might be different with other species though.

The biologists said the electric field works better on large scaled fish than it does on small scaled fish like trout. I know that the sucker population took a beating that day...FWIW, they shocked the same stretches two days after the initial sample, and the resample rate was around 40%.

Back to Randall's topic.

Randall, I fished 8 to Scott's on the 29th of June..I'd concentrate on bass on your way down to the spring, break out the fly rod to fish the troutiest areas between the spring and the end of Suicide Hole, then switch back to bass fishing..Plastics are a no no, but I'd bring some buzzbaits, spinner baits, rapala's, and hair jigs in addition to your fly tackle. Cheers.

[mcp633]

We could all use a lot less pencil pushers! Way too many chiefs, and not enough indians in most areas of work!

That's coming from me, a supervisor just below the rank that requires a labotomy, spine, and testicle(if applicable)removal procedure! That would be a Lieutenant for those not familiar.

[brownieman]

mpc633,

I agree with most of that. Most agents have become overwhelmed by new regulations, hunter safety courses...things of this nature and all the associated bs that goes along with it.

They are allowed little time to perform what their jobs should entail.

The MDC budget could be trimmed heavily in areas of wastefulness with no increase of anything and allow more agents to be hired and perform the functions of which they were hired to do.

They could certainly use a few more agents and a few less pencil pushers.

Not sure about the effects of Shocking on fish populations..I helped with the trout sample on the upper Current last year and I only recall one dead trout out the hundreds that I handled on the two days I participated. Might be different with other species though.

The biologists said the electric field works better on large scaled fish than it does on small scaled fish like trout. I know that the sucker population took a beating that day...FWIW, they shocked the same stretches two days after the initial sample, and the resample rate was around 40%.

Back to Randall's topic.

Randall, I fished 8 to Scott's on the 29th of June..I'd concentrate on bass on your way down to the spring, break out the fly rod to fish the troutiest areas between the spring and the end of Suicide Hole, then switch back to bass fishing..Plastics are a no no, but I'd bring some buzzbaits, spinner baits, rapala's, and hair jigs in addition to your fly tackle. Cheers.

IMO that's a pretty good day for the bioligists...just some suckers fried, lol...they feel the need to zap em twice...whatever works...or don't?

[shawncat]

I don't know if you should pass up that stretch from the springs to suicide.I've caught alot of smallies in that stretch over the years.I have caught some nice one's too[17" inchers].A lot of catch and release,maybe because of no bait ,no plastics but there's big smallies in that stretch.I've had slow day's too but if you catch that river just after the right amount of rain you'll be surprised at how good that stretch is [dang, I hate when I talk about my smallie spots to much ]You gentlemen have made some good points about the agents and their practices but I can tell you from 30 years + experience fishing that stretch there's agents down there.I have been checked at suicide,cardiac parking lots,on the trail that leads from the springs[coming and going]and once by 2 "fishermen "in a boat that talked to me as they floated by and came back upriver 10 minutes later to inform me they were agents[hidden agents I suppose] .Hope this helps,good luck.

[jcoberley]

mpc633,

I agree with most of that. Most agents have become overwhelmed by new regulations, hunter safety courses...things of this nature and all the associated bs that goes along with it.

They are allowed little time to perform what their jobs should entail.

The MDC budget could be trimmed heavily in areas of wastefulness with no increase of anything and allow more agents to be hired and perform the functions of which they were hired to do.

IMO that's a pretty good day for the bioligists...just some suckers fried, lol...they feel the need to zap em twice...whatever works...or don't?

brownieman, I think we are wasting out puter ink! No one understands!!!!!

[brownieman]

Oh well jc...then we will just have to keep feedin the monkey just to watch em s**t.

When the time is at hand...well...just can only hope my grandson can see a smallie on his line somewhere...besides in an aquarium in a nature center.

Due to our actions he may have no choice...for one, it just bothers me, ya know.

[Crippled Caddis]

My take:

Bureaucrats, (and the MDC is a bureau--make no mistake on THAT score!) like gamblers, play the odds. Trout are the 'boutique fish' of the era so they get the bulk of the attention. The 'trout parks' are money-earners. In that respect the MDC is no different than you or I. In both cases the profitable venture will be nurtured far more than even our favorites---it's human nature at it's pragmatic basics.

Unless or until we can convince the 'powers-that-be' that Smallies earn as much $ as trout no change is going to take place. Period!

I don't live in Missouri. But I see much the same mindset in operation in Arkansas. This state has produced a significant # of world record trout; a fact that draws anglers from around the nation and even the world. But AGFC surveys has shown in every instance that the bulk of tourism $ spent on trout fishing is by those who just want to catch daily limits and take them home to freezer burn and ultimately be wasted. So the preponderance of the emphasis of the Arkansas trout fisheries program is centered on stocking catchable hatchery idiots to satisfy the average fisherman. There is NO emphasis placed on trophy fishing even tho it is the perception of the possibility of trophies that lures the average tourist fisherman. AGFC depends virtually entirely on the 'luck-of-the-draw' that has historically produced the trophies and records that nurture the fantasies of those who come here to fish. Deteriating water quality has made it transparent to those who can see that those days are far behind us as the lakes that created the tailwater fisheries come more to resemble settling basins or sewage lagoons as the effects of 'Better Living Through Chemistry' accumulates behind the dams in ever greater toxicity. The long-since obvious result is tailwater discharges that not only are detrimental to the health of the fish but to the very basis of the food chain on which all aquatic life depends. While such factual data is readily available and even obvious to even the casual outdoorsman the wheels of bureaucracy grind so slowly that response time is such that the damage will have been done before the 'studies' have been generally accepted at the highest levels where decisions are made. In short, if you want movement then you must raise so much Hell that it's less uncomfortable for bureaucracy to do what you want than it is for them to maintain their own comfortable rut! Just MHO. CC

[brownieman]

Thanks CC...wise words, my sentiments exactly!!

Raising hell...much easier for the bureuacrats to sit back in their leather desk chairs and lauph at us common folk.

Trout are not even a native species to Mo., but this is where the money lies as you say.

"Boutique fish"...yes sir, "Boutique world"...surely not, lol.

Guess I'm glad a few still survive that see this world for what is is...dis-heartening if one lets it be but hey...it is what it is...deal with it I reckon. A change in mindset is indeed in order, but change, coping with change is not dealt with well by we who are only guests on this world.

Mother nature has always been the provider...man has always been the taker...

We have interveened, made attemts to control every aspect of her and once in a while she strikes back...just to let us know she is still in control.

When will we learn to work with mother nature instead of a futile attempt to control her??

Thanks again for the thoughts and words...your HO reflects my own. BM

[brownieman]

I don't know if you should pass up that stretch from the springs to suicide.I've caught alot of smallies in that stretch over the years.I have caught some nice one's too[17" inchers].A lot of catch and release,maybe because of no bait ,no plastics but there's big smallies in that stretch.I've had slow day's too but if you catch that river just after the right amount of rain you'll be surprised at how good that stretch is [dang, I hate when I talk about my smallie spots to much ]You gentlemen have made some good points about the agents and their practices but I can tell you from 30 years + experience fishing that stretch there's agents down there.I have been checked at suicide,cardiac parking lots,on the trail that leads from the springs[coming and going]and once by 2 "fishermen "in a boat that talked to me as they floated by and came back upriver 10 minutes later to inform me they were agents[hidden agents I suppose] .Hope this helps,good luck.

Just curious sc...were these MDC agents or Water Patrol.

I have seen several WP officers on the Meremac, never an MDC agent.

[mcp633]

I too have been checked at both the cardiac and suicide parking areas by a MDC agent.

I've been checked at Montauk inside the park. I've fished within eyeshot of a guy in the blue ribbon area on the Current to find out as I was leaving he wasn't an angler, but an agent in disguise as I exited the river and he stopped me.

I've seen covert surveillance vehicles parked at accesses that to the casual observer you wouldn't realize that you are being watched and recorded. I know these vehicles well as I have spent many nights in them myself. Quite impressive capabilities to say the least!

I've been checked by an agent on the Maries river at an access five miles down a gravel road where there's rarely anybody anyway.

Can't count the number of times I've been stopped at LOZ, or the winter trout lake here in J-Town.

Maybe I just look shady, but I don't think so!

They are out there, just not enough of them. Their emphasis may not always be in the right places, but I'm sure they're doing what they can with the resources they have. It's like any other L.E. agency, publically funded = a lack of adequate resources on the ground. Determined by someone who hasn't ever done the job, or has been behind a desk so long they've forgotten how. We are all forced to do the best we can with what we've got.