C&R yearly permit for missouri trout parks

[brownieman]

Studies have been done but imo it involves considerable speculation...by studies gf is not to far off from what I have seen.

The stress incurred by catching a fish may not be apparant upon release...some may not die for hours, days or even weeks depending on the damage if any.

A hard figure would be a guess at best imo not knowing what happens to the fish after release even though it may appear to swim off fine under it's own power...kinda rule of thumb with me to work him till he's frisky enouph to swim outta my hands pretty good with as little handling as possible.

Beyond that I have no way of knowing...can do my best to make sure the fish is ok and thats all any of us can due...the mortality rate is hard to figure considering. jmho

bm

[Chief Grey Bear]

The stress incurred by catching a fish may not be apparant upon release...some may not die for hours, days or even weeks depending on the damage if any.

bm

That was my point to Rusty. Doesn't appear he understood though. Thanks bm.

Yes I feel just fine Rusty. I haven't been ailing for some time now. Thanks for asking anyway.

[gonefishin]

The whole point to my posts was not how many fish die from C&R but rather to inform that C&R fishing is not without loss to life. What is that loss? No one really knows because there are simply way to many variables involved. I do know from experience that if you stand down river for very long from from a C&R only area you will see floaters.

To get back on topic I was trying to point out that a annual permit could not be sold for 10 or 15 or 20 bucks because there simply would be to many fish lost to justify that price level. An annual permit would have to be conciderably more expensive.

[Chief Grey Bear]

The C&R permit would be for the parks, all zones, that is what I would like to see put into effect. The parks wouldn't have to stock any extra fish for the C&R fisherman, there are almost always plenty in the river for C&R fishing.

GF,I fully understand there will be loss of life. I wrote that in response to the above post. I have nothing against Tim or his thinking on this subject but, if anyone thinks there will be no loss to C&R in the parks, take a walk along the river in the late afternoon. I think you will be shocked at the number of trout laying in the bottom of the pools belly up.

And I wouldn't immediately point my finger at the bait or spin fishermen. Just last Sunday, my son and I spent a little time there and I saw a Cabela fly fishing model doing a little fishing. He wanted to make sure everyone saw that he caught a fish as he finally got it over to the bank only to kneel down and waited for it to completely wear out while he scanned up and down the river to see who all was looking at him. He finally released the fish.

[timsfly]

Yes you are right some people fishing fly or bait over play there fish, that just goes along with no respect for the fish you are fishing for, it happens a lot unfortunatly. I want them to continue to stock fish for the tag buyers, I just think a C&R permit would take some strain off of the hatcheries and some of us that only get to fish an hour or two wouldn't have to waste 15 minutes of that time standing in line to get a tag. Sometimes you can step in and get one and sometimes you can't depends on the day. I know there will be a few fish killed by anybody doing catch and release. But the fly and jig and lure fisherman will kill very few if they are released properly, and I know as well as anybody that some will be foolishly killed, I've seen people release fish, drop them a few times and kick them back in the river and the fish does swim off, but I figure it is a dead fish swimming. Good comments so far. Good to know what people are thinking. It will make some of the higher ups look at some of the things going on in missouri.

[brownieman]

Here's a good example...just a short boring story I guess but... oh well.

A couple of weeks ago I was fishing a Trophy Area...got to the water about 5:30 pm and was going to fish till dark. I started fishing upstream being stealthy as possible due to the low water. I caught around 6 or 8 browns 14 to 18 inches I would say and an unusual number of smallies, probably a dozen or so all less than 12 inches...generally don't catch many smallies on the strech I covered.

At the last hole I was going to fish before heading back down stream with daylight fading fast I caught a brown about 20 inches, didn't measure it but I have acquired a pretty good eye over the years. He was a real pretty, healthy fat male...was just one of those fish that fight unusually hard...seems like some fight till there almost dead and I use 15 lb. test so I don't over play them.

I caught him on a 5 1/4 inch gold rapala and he just went nuts, was in fairly still water and with no current to his advantage was not going to hum my drag with the tackle I use. I always try not to net or touch the fish unless it is one I intend on keeping...just shake the hooks out while he's in the water and part ways and am thankful for the fight.

Every time I would get him close enouph to unhook him...rod in one hand, pliers in the other he would just go to thrashing like crazy making it hard to release him. When he finally calmed down enuoph for me to shake the hooks off of him he had about faught himself to death...mind you it's getting darker by the minute and I'm probably a mile and a half from my truck.

After I got him unhooked he just layed over on his side in the water so I go into cpr mode for the fish if not he is going to die and have settled by my own fault of taking no light I will have to walk and wade in the pitch black back downstream to my truck...not being as sure footed and perky as I used to be and the river had changed considerably, not a comfortable feeling.

Trout are a little different than some fish the slime on their body being a protective coating which if removed invites bacterial infection and fungi.

I gently held the fish as lightly as possible by the tail fin and worked him back and forth in the water till I felt him trying to swim under his own power.

I let go of him 4 or 5 times and he would sluggishly swim around in a circle so I would repeat the process...by this time is was getting pretty dark but I was determined not to leave that fish dead on my behalf. I spent probably 20 minutes helping the fish gain his strength back feeling responsible for him loosing it.

Finally upon letting him go he swam upstream back over to the spot where I hooked him and I had a very slow spooky wade back down the river to my truck.

I would say this fish survived to fight another day but I really have no way of knowing.

Just did the best I could with the situation and I made it back to my truck without bunging myself up.

I feel that if all were to show respect for the way fish are caught and released it would make a difference...all I can speak for is myself...I felt I possibly put the survival of the fish above my own safety.

That's just me, the way I've always been and at my age I doubt that will change...it's just kinda respect for other living things and Mother Nature.

Sorry for the lengthy post guys and gals...morning ramblings over a cup of java, or 4, lol

bm

[Rusty]

Studies have been done but imo it involves considerable speculation...by studies gf is not to far off from what I have seen.

The stress incurred by catching a fish may not be apparant upon release...some may not die for hours, days or even weeks depending on the damage if any.

A hard figure would be a guess at best imo not knowing what happens to the fish after release even though it may appear to swim off fine under it's own power...kinda rule of thumb with me to work him till he's frisky enouph to swim outta my hands pretty good with as little handling as possible.

Beyond that I have no way of knowing...can do my best to make sure the fish is ok and thats all any of us can due...the mortality rate is hard to figure considering. jmho

bm

I only thought I was finished with this topic, but I couldn't resist.

"Studies have been done but imo it involves considerable speculation...by studies gf is not to far off from what I have seen."

Can some please tell me where the numbers are coming from that are being posted on this topic? Does this same study only include one way of C & R? i.e. barbed, baited, barbless, single hooks, treble hooks. And who is the one that hangs around to see how many fish die for which type of tackle is being used?

One other question. How many fishing parks in the state of Missouri have C & R only sections during the regular season?

Would the parks make it an across the board C & R? Would it include single barbless hook, baited/plastic, treble, single hook. Or would it only be barbless single hooks? This is where I think the issue gets heated. Everyone wants to be treated the same. However, life does not treat everyone the same. People who C & R take into consideration water temperature, lures, the handling and the release of the fish. If not they should.

I have a question to pose. With all that have posted one way or the other on this topic, who uses conventional tackle and who uses fly fishing tackle? Is this where the division is on this topic? I will state that I use fly fishing tackle (single barbless hooks) only when C & R. Maybe that explains why I am for the issuance of the permit. If they open it up to all other tackle, then I would be against it. There, I said it, I am being prejudice I guess.

[Chief Grey Bear]

I have a question to pose. With all that have posted one way or the other on this topic, who uses conventional tackle and who uses fly fishing tackle? Is this where the division is on this topic? I will state that I use fly fishing tackle (single barbless hooks) only when C & R. Maybe that explains why I am for the issuance of the permit. If they open it up to all other tackle, then I would be against it. There, I said it, I am being prejudice I guess.

I don't believe that to be the divison at all. If available, I still wouldn't buy the permit. But that is just me.

What you are saying is that you want only certain persons to have the permit.

[Rusty]

Couldn't be explained any better than the last sentence in my post! And it has nothing to do with "getting off cheap".

[brownieman]

I see no harm in improving or changing anything if it's for the better...would be nice to please everyone just happens very little.

Little has changed for my benefit and I don't see it happenin soon, lol.

IMO the best I can hope for is just clean water and a fish to catch...more for my grandson than myself.

We all have our opinions, can't always speak em in this day and age but we still got em.

Hopefully the idea will at least gain enouph attention to plant a seed...at least get the subject brought up and kicked around a little and evaluated.

Far as a fisherman...I'll just keep fishin when and where I can and hope for the best...I'll give input where I can and hope for wise decisions but whatever decisions that would be made...well, some will like and some won't...that's pretty much a given to me. jmo

bm