Fly Fishing Guide School

[Project Healing Waters]

Actually...no...I am not a fan of guide schools, either. I think it is a way for some large outfitters to take money from their trainees and then pick the best to offer jobs. Not very ethical if you ask me. But that's my PERSONAL opinion, and not an answer to the question the young man asked.

I DO know some guides who got into the biz by going to schools, but not many. Generally, the kids they hire out of their guide schools are hired as "assistant guides." That means you work FOR a guide. That means you are a sherpa. You have to pay your dues somewhere/sometime! You don't just walk into anything as an automatic expert. Frankly, the only ones I can think of who went to school(s) and then started guiding are women. One went to the Orvis Fly Fishing School, a guide school in CO, and then was offered a sherpa job with the Orvis outfitter who owned the school. The job was seasonal, of course. But it was a good way for HER to start. Another went to the Orvis FF school, the Joan Wulff school, then got her Orvis endorsement by working for a CO Orvis outfitter for quite awhile, and then went to the Hyde rowing school. Now she's an independent guide in CO, on the Hyde Prostaff, and is quite successful.

I also don't really understand the "glamour" remarks you always hear/read about guiding. As Brian says, you're a butler who knows how to fish/run a boat. And at least 1/2 the work doesn't occur on the water. Nothing glamorous about carrying someone else's gear for tips. The primary two tasks of a guide are transportation/navigation and managing gear. So it's not unlike being a taxi driver and a bell hop. Yeah...that's real glamour! LOL And make no mistake about it, that is how MOST of the clients and outfitters view fishing and hunting guides. The trip is about the client and the business is about the outfitter. And that's how it should be. Where does that put the guide?

I've had many people make statements along the lines of, "Man, you have my dream job." I gotta tell you that always made me nervous. I knew these people had ZERO idea of what my job was as a guide or outfitter. And I always said, "No, YOU have MY dream job." Every time, they would ask what I meant/why I said that. I would look them dead in the eye and quickly explain with a slight smile, "Your job provides you the income and free time to take these trips/be a member of these clubs. I do this because I HAVE TO in order to have quality places to hunt and fish on private property AND make a basic living." What they REALLY meant when they said I had their dream job was that they didn't think my job WAS a job. And that was very, very bad for me. They thought I was getting paid to "play." Well, the reality is my own hunting and fishing time was very limited due to the fact that I was taking care of others while they did it all season. The rest of the year, I was getting their properties ready for the NEXT season.

I made more money as a hunting/fishing club manager and trip guide than ANY guide and most outfitters (when you actually figure the take-home). And I had almost no investment/overhead that was MY risk. I had great corporate-style benefits, company trucks/ATVs/boats/etc., an expense account, and I got paid an average of about $75k/year. I loved it for several years. Then the attitudes of my clients/members and the impossible expectations they had began to wear on me badly. When I became disabled, I was burnt out anyway. It wasn't because of the WORK. I loved the work BECAUSE it was very hard. It was because:

1. While I had GREAT PLACES AND GEAR to hunt/fish, I didn't get to hunt/fish very much.

2. I got tired of the unrealistic expectations born of willful ignorance. I was killing myself trying to do the undoable.

THIS...in my experience...is the life of a guide. I first began guiding backpacking and white water trips in the summers between my junior and senior years of high school. I then guided some deer and hog hunters during the fall for about 3 years. Then I guided bird/waterfowl hunts and evaluated waterfowl outfitters for the Orvis Endorsed Lodge program. Then I developed/rehabilitated hunting and fishing properties and did some trip guiding. As Brian says, the true reward is when you get to introduce someone successfully to something new or teach them a new skill/technique that works for them. Great days of hunting/fishing success come in a close second, but they don't happen much more than 50% of the time as a general rule.

[Brian Wise]

Good points Ken.

Another thing to remember if you run trips in the boat and then wade. I run my trips mostly in the boat now but we still wade quite a bit too. If you have more than one fisherman you basically wade about 4 times the amount of a regular fisherman. I figured it up one time and on a regular trip with 2 fisherman I'll probably wade a total of 4-5 miles in at least thigh high water per day on top of rowing 6 miles. It pays to be in shape too...

Over the years I have started training the guides for ROLF. First I will take the guys on a trip for them to see how I run my trips, then I will make them guide me, and then they have to go on at least 2 trips with me and my fisherman before they can go on their own.....90% of the guys that wanted to guide didn't make it to the trips on their own.

I do promise that when you do start guiding you will learn a lot about fishing and that is always cool too!

Kayser, feel free to give me a call anytime if you have any other questions about guiding, I don't know it all for sure but might be able to help out a little.

Brian

(417)679-3159

[Project Healing Waters]

Yes, Brian, but thigh-high water to YOU is ankle-deep to most of us. LMAO!

[Brian Wise]

Yes, Brian, but thigh-high water to YOU is ankle-deep to most of us. LMAO!

Very True....

Brian

[flyfishmaster]

Kayser,

Everybody that has posted information for your topic has been right on the money with great insight and knowledge.

I too wanted to become a guide in Colorado back around 2000, I was offered a guiding job at a very well know shop and was going to be trained by a person that won a Orvis Guide of the Year Award. But there were two things that turned me away from doing it:

1) Turning my hobby into my job. What will my new hobby be to get away from the guiding job?

2) Money.

I know the guides that read this have MUCH more knowledge regarding the Money issue, but how it was explained to me back in 2000. For an average day wading trip for 2 people the client rate would be $250 (w/o tip). One thing to remember is that the $250 is paid to the Guide service or Fly Shop you work out of, not you.

A first year guide would get $125 of the money, a second year guide would get $175 and 3+ year guide would get $200.

I know it is now 2008, and the guiding rates have gone up but so has the cost of everything else. Plus you have to remember that guiding in most areas is seasonal and is not always a 5 days a week, 52 weeks a year job. Most guides have to have a second job just to make it in life.

Can any of Professional Guide add to this?

With all that said, I do have to say I still regret not becoming that guide back in 2000. Because I hate being a computer jockey.

Which ever direction you take, it will be the correct one.

Rob.... If you want, I will be your test client for a trip!! I'm serious.

Later,

Kim Ahne