FlyFishinFool

I have not stayed at Larry's due to their higher prices. I have stayed several times at the Bennett Spring Inn. Decent rates (only a couple bucks more than Sand Springs) with a full kitchen/refrigerator and two Queen beds. The Inn's rooms have always been very clean, and the Queen beds definitely beat a double bed when you are over 6' tall ! I have never stayed at Vogel's - looked in their rooms once and decided I could find better lodging elsewhere!

About 2 weeks ago I posted the following thread under a different thread title in a general conversation with folks: "Yeah - I guess the days of being able to leave anything in your vehicle (even when locked) are over at the BSSP and probably other campgrounds as well. I got down to BSSP early Monday (6/28) morning, and went into the store to buy a tag shortly after 5:30am; when I came out someone had broken into the back of my truck (with a camper shell on it) and stole a TFO Pro 9' 5wt rod and Bass Pro rod tube, a very good Tilleys fishing hat and some other miscellaneous stuff - basically anything at the tail end of the truck bed. This was your basic smash and grab, and take what ever is easy to steal and run! And probably the worst part was I missed about an hour of fishing while I had to wait a while to make connections with the sheriff to file a report! I eventually went fishing and met up with the sheriff later that morning. Repair estimates on the truck damage will have to wait until next week." I originally thought one post was enough but since then I had a friend tell me that they also had some gear stolen out of a pickup truck while down at BSSP about a week ago. My friend had a couple of inexpensive spin-cast rods & reels taken out of the un-covered back of his pickup truck while it was parked in the big parking lot across the road from the Park store. The cost of the stolen gear was pretty low, but his kids disappointment was a bigger loss; not to mention the inconvinience of having to go buy 2 new rods/reels before his kids could go fishing again. When I asked, he said he did not file a theft report, since the rods were basically pretty cheap. Since there seems to be a ongoing issue with thefts around the Park store, I have decided to re-post my original comments. Note that my friends gear was stolen out of an open pickup truck bed, while my gear was stolen from a covered/locked truck bed that was parked right in front of the Park store at 5:35am in the morning! I guess the days of leaving ANYTHING in an open vehicle have come to the end; and also leaving anything visible in a locked vehicle! Everyone needs to lock up their gear (hopefully out of sight) and lock their vehicles all the time, and just maybe these low-lifes will move on to some other location where the pickings are easier!

This is from the Bennett Spring website: Motel rooms, duplex cabins, individual cabins and remodeled four-plex units are available at Bennett Spring State Park. Pets are not allowed in any state park building. Lodging rates for 2009 range from $72 to $117, depending on the unit selected and number of people. Applicable taxes will apply. All motel rooms are furnished with refrigerators, cable television, microwaves, coffee makers, heating, air-conditioning and complete linens. The motel units are located in the center of the park, near the swimming pool or near the campground. All cabin and housekeeping units have a kitchen, one or two bedrooms and a living room. Each unit is furnished with cooking utensils, pots, pans, dishes, toaster, coffee maker, linens, heating, air-conditioning and cable television. The duplex cabins have two bedrooms with a double bed in each bedroom, and some have a hide-a-bed or pull-down bed. These are located in the center of the park, near the pool, in a quiet cul-de-sac area. The river duplex cabins are located in a restful setting near the Niangua River. These cabins have two bedrooms with a queen bed in each bedroom; some have a hide-a-bed. Our spring duplex cabins are located in a peaceful setting near the head of the spring. These have two bedrooms with a double bed in one bedroom and two twins in the other bedroom; some have a hide-a-bed. The four-plex units have two bedrooms with a queen bed in one bedroom and two twin beds in the other bedroom; some have a hide-a-bed. These units are located in front of the pool in the center of the park.

You can laugh and make jokes about it, but take a look at the attached link and view the video of what the Illinois River looks like today! You cannot run a boat faster than a few miles an hour unless you have a solid shield to hide behind, or don't mind taking the chance of getting your jaw broken by a 15-20 pound fish hitting you in the face! There is one newpaper report about a lady who was hit in the head so hard that it broke her jaw, cheekbone and eye socket, knocking her unconsious and out of the boat into the river...fortunately she was wearing a pfd and was rescued before she drowned. BTW - there is no way that you can bowhunt, shoot with a shotgun, net or anything else to effectively reduce the numbers. One biologist said the only solution would be to poison the entire river and then re-stock with game fish - extremely expensive and very unrealistic.

I tried out the Spider-Wire furled leaders made by Troy & Emma Simonton this week at Bennett Spring; put a 6' Spider Wire leader on a TFO Jim Teeny 9' 4wt and a 7' Spider Wire leader on a TFO Jim Teeny 9' 5wt, both rods with Rio Grand fly line, and used about 4' of 6x Seaguar fluro tippet. Both Spider Wire furled leaders performed excellently, readily turning over #16 beadhead nymphs with a very small strike indicator just as easily as they did with large weighted wooleys and small cracklebacks for stripping through the deep holes. Just for fun I even tried the leaders out with some 6X mono tippet and some dry flies of various sizes, including a couple of #20 dry flies (Renegade & PED) and not only did the Spider Wire furled leaders turn them over, but it also allowed them to land gently enough to catch fish on both little flies. According to the Simonton's website the Spider wire furled leaders are impregnated with teflon and I did not treat them with any floatant, and they were both still floating well after a solid week of fishing - I used each leader more than 20 hours each over the last 5 days. I noticed that after they have been used a while, the Spider Wire leaders tend to look a little lighter (a white-ish green) when they are dried out, and I was concerned that they were wearing too quickly. However, as soon as I threw them back into the water they re-assumed the normal green color. I agree that the Spider Wire furled leaders are a bit softer than the Feather-Craft mono furled leaders I have been using. The extra limpness allowed much easier curled casts into small pockets along the shore line. However, with a softer leader comes a small price - I did have a few more wind knots in the leader when using a strike indicator than I normally get when using a mono furled leader. With the softer leader I found getting the occasional wind knot out was a little harder than when the leader is made out of mono or fluoro. I assume the softer leader allows the knots to form when my casting stroke is not "perfect" (LOL) - perhaps we should say when my casting stroke is not up to my usual standards! Overall, I have to give the Spider Wire furled leaders at least an A-, and if my casting stroke was better they would probably get an A+. Unfortunately, I was having such a good time catching fish with the leaders working well, a good choice of flies and the fish being so cooperative; I never changed out the leaders and tried out the Simonton's Mono or "Bennett Tinge" Thread furled leaders. Oh well, I guess I will just have to get back down to Bennett real soon to try out the other leaders. I am sold on the benefits of using furled leaders, and the Simonton's Spider Wire leaders are really a great product, and about 40% cheaper than Feather-Craft leaders. I don't know if the Spider-Wire furled leaders will outlast the flyline as someone commented in this thread, but it sure will be fun trying to see how much I have to fish to wear out one of these Spider Wire leaders - I know...it is a tough job, but someone has to do it. I will take the hit for everyone else and really throw myself into the effort! I will keep you posted of the results!

Hi RC, I had a good time fishing with you and drath. Did not get to fish with JJTroutbum, but was glad to meet him as well. Yeah - I guess the days of being able to leave anything in your vehicle (even when locked) are over at the BSSP and probably other campgrounds as well. I got down to BSSP early Monday morning, and went into the store to buy a tag shortly after 5:30am; when I came out someone had broken into the back of my truck (with a camper shell on it) and stole a TFO Pro 9' 5wt rod and Bass Pro rod tube, a very good Tilleys fishing hat and some other miscellaneous stuff - basically anything at the tail end of the truck bed. This was your basic smash and grab, and take what ever is easy to steal and run! And probably the worst part was I missed about an hour of fishing while I had to wait a while to make connections with the sheriff to file a report! I eventually went fishing and met up with the sheriff later that morning. Repair estimates on the truck damage will have to wait until next week. However, that certainly did not stop the fishing activities, and I still had a great week (I was down Monday - Friday). If there ever was a week of weather that makes people say - "you should have been here last week" - well this was that week! The weather was perfect, high 60's at night with daytime temps in the high 70's or low 80's, and just a touch of a breeze every day in the afternoons. While Monday was certainly the best day of the week, Tue-Thu were not too bad either, most days the fishing was almost as good as Monday. I caught 30-35 fish every day in the morning, and then the same number again in the evening - generally a great week. Friday was a lot slower, but even then I still caught over 30 before I had to leave in the afternoon to drive home. The small beadhead midges in olive and brown were the top flies for me, but I talked to a couple of folks stripping flies with sinking lines who did well on green & black cracklebacks or green & black soft hackles. Hope to see y'all on the stream the next time I can get down to fish.

Sorry to have mislead you re: the warranty period - I got my info from the guys in the fly shop. You would think the department-dedicated sales staff would know what the warranty is on the products they sell. Anyway, glad to hear you got your rod replaced. The new Cabela's policy is a bit of a surprise - guess I will have to re-think some product purchases like waders. If they only warrant them for a year then I will be looking elsewhere when I need my next set. There are a lot of other rod companies that offer great warranties, like Orvis and TFO (just to name a couple), that will gladly provide no-cost or low-cost warranty for repair or replacement. Their new policy may cost Cabelas a lot of repeat business.

Hazelwood MO Cabela's store said the Traditional II fly rod warranty is 15 years - just bring it in and they will swap it out.

That is not quite correct - once case law has been set, other trials/lawsuits can reference the prior cases, but it is still up to the discretion of the judge whether to agree that prior case applies. To be upheld by statute, the legislature has to pass a law specifying how the rules apply and/or must be interpreted. Part of the problem lies in that great big gray area as previously mentioned; where the courts struggle to answer questions such as: where exactly is the high water mark? is the high water mark the average level or the level during a specific water flow or time frame? Questions like these help keep the lawyers and courts in business! If everyone would just clean up after themselves, then the average property owner would not have issues with someone just fishing. Of course if frogs had wings they wouldn't bump their butts when they jump either!

When I asked, the folks in the store at BSSP checked with the park ranger who told them you would get a ticket for having an unlabeled stringer if it was NOT atttached directly to you. So if you have a stringer attached to your vest or belt you have nothing to worry about. The unlabeled stringer issue only applies to a stringer NOT attached to your body - but I guess that means you better keep the stringer attached while you clean your fish! The only other problem might be those microscopic floating cameras all over the park!!!! Hey Outside Bend - JAGUAR...JAGUAR!!

FFM, I have been using 6' and 7' furled leaders on 9' rods with 3'-4' tippets, and I pretty much handle it like Troy stated. I stop reeling when the furled leader butt hits the tip of the fly rod, and just lift the rod (and my arm) vertically to get the fish close enough to slip the hook or net it if that is desired. If you are using a 7.5' rod with a 5' furled leader, try to keep your tippet no longer than 3' if that is possible. If the tippet needs to be longer for proper presentation, then you might consider using a shorter leader as recommended by Troy. Good luck.

Laws in different states & counties vary according to access from roadway/bridge right-of-ways. Of course, many times it is up to the interpretation and discretion of the individual law enforcement officer - even if he is wrong you cannot get anywhere arguing with them. Several people touched on the key issue; I think the issue the original poster ran into was that he and his buddy walked up & down stream. In Missouri, the land owner "owns" the land under the stream, and if they own property on only one side of the stream then they own the land out to the middle of the river. If the water is large enough to be considered navigable, then you have the right to float it and fish it, regardless of who owns the land. However, this does NOT mean you can get out of a boat or canoe and wade, even to pull a canoe through a low spot - that means you are tresspassing because you are walking on someone's private property. So when your buddy was walking up/down the stream he was tresspassing on the farmer's land, and that individual had the right to call the sheriff and file a complaint. As someone else noted, unfortunately there have been so many slobs trash a lot of streams, that landowners are often forced to close access just to keep their property from becoming garbage dumps. The best option was also posted here - talk to the landowner and ask permission before you fish the stream; most of the time they will say yes. They just want to know who is on there property.

I will agree the furled leaders are great, but your final comment is a lttle over optimistic. As FC states, their furled leades are "uber" strong, but they will eventually wear out. Do they outlast knotless tapered leaders when both leaders use a tippet ring? Absolutely - the furled leaders will outlast the regular tapered leaders at least 10-to-1 or more; but "never have to buy another leader"? That has not been my experience......while using FC furled leaders I have had them last an entire year, but you will eventually have to replace them.

I have used the furled leaders from Feathercraft while fishing down at BSSP for several years. The mono leaders are durable and will float (for the most part) as the leader captures and holds air bubbles when cast - if you really smack it down on the water it will gradually sink. The furled leaders made from fluoro are designed to sink - Feathercraft offers them with or without a bright colored tip for nymphing. All FC furled leaders can be had with either tippet rings or a micro-swivel for stripping flys. I highly recommend the micro tippet rings - they make adding/changing tippet a breeze. I have not tried the furled leaders from the Simontons, but have emailed back and forth with Troy about their products. Troy seems very knowledgable regarding furled leaders, and I have already sent him a check to try out a couple of his leaders. I will test them out at BSSP later this month. Note that Troy's furled leaders are almost half the cost of the Feathercraft ones. FC wants $12.95 per leader, while Troy's prices vary depending on the material and length of furled leader. I am planning on trying out the Simonton's furled leaders made fromn the SpiderWire - they float, have no stretch and should be ultra-strong! The SpiderWire furled leaders are the most expensive and still run only $8-$9, a lot less than FC. I will post comments/results when I have tested the Simonton's furled leaders.

My apologies, I used the wrong terminology. The new person assigned to the park is a "Ranger" and not a "Conservation Officer". The new Ranger has been assigned living quarters on the Niangua River end of the park. The folks I talked to who watched the activity said the Ranger did write tickets (possibly they were warnings?) for people not having their stringers tagged. I do know that the store staff have been warning folks that the stringer rules are being enforced and tickets have been written. Bottom line, I do not know what all the differences are between a wildlife code violation and a park rules violation, but I certainly hope the new Ranger can enforce all the rules so everyone has an equal opportunity to fish. FYI - I know there are Conservation Officers in the park, at least occassionally, as I saw one late last year, in a uniform, cruise through the park in a green pickup/SUV, with lights and attennas that were visible from the stream. About 2 years ago I talked to a Park Ranger in a truck who was observing individuals in the stream with binoculars. When I asked him if he was observing folks cheating on the limits, he said he already had a couple of folks identified who were using the prior day's tags, and he would wait until they came out of the stream before writing them up. So again, I am not sure of the difference between a Ranger and a CO/CA in writing tickets, but personally I think a bit more enforcement would be a good thing.

I asked in the BSSP park store if rubber legs were legal in Z-1 or Z-2, and they said as long as the rest of the fly was legal, then the rubber legs did not change whether the fly was legal or not. However, I would like to get the answer from the new Conservation Agent working at BSSP - after all, he is the one who will make the decision if you get a ticket or not!

I was just down at BSSP for a few days last week - found out they have been assigned a permanent Conservation Agent. In fact, he has been allocated living quarters right on the park grounds. He has been working the park multiple times every day, even with the lighter crowds. I personally saw him cruising several times a day, and I talked to 2 people who watched him issuing tickets for not having stringers tagged with name & address when they were not attached directly to the fisherman. Hopefully he will start asking to see what people are fishing in Zone-1 and even in Zone-2. Just need to send all the bait/soft-lure people down to Zone-3 and take the licenses away from the cheaters!

As an example - just read the prior post "Went Throught The Park 5/14" where someone describes fishing in Zone-2 with a jig with rubber legs - no soft lures (plastics or rubber) are legal in Zone-2.

BSSP Zone-1 is flies only which must have fur, feather or other material permanently attached, and requires a single hook but allows spinners; and Zone-2 is any flies and artificial lures excluding soft plastic and scents. However, until recently they have not been providing the manpower to enforce the regulations, and I have personally seen a lot of folks throwing soft plastics in Zone-2 (twister-tails, etc.). My comment was that I thought making Zone-1 catch and release only and no spinners allowed would be a good idea, and then making Zone-2 follow the current rules for Zone-1 would help keep the fish numbers higher and help reduce the costs to manage and stock new fish.

Greg - I absolutely agree!!! Make Zone-1 C&R single flies only and no spinners - then they could stock at best once a month. Would also be great if they then made Zone-2 flies only, no soft lures (e.g. like Zone-1 is today) that would cut back on the number of fish that are injured and die (the ones that no one keeps but they still die after a soft-plastic has been ripped out of their throats), thus reducing the cost for stocking Zone-2 as well.

No problem. I have been using that avatar for years on several forums - did not know someone else was using it. As I stated, I am sure there are less fish at Bennett Spring, but there have also been a lot less people fishing as well. Most mornings, there were only a few people fishing at the whistle, and even less by 9AM or so until the late morning folks came in around 10:30-11:00AM. Often I could fish a section of the stream, then wade back upsream and re-fish the same section since there was no one else fishing within 100+ yards. Of course, when the sun warms up and the rain/wind disappears, then there were more folks, but it simply was not crowded at all. I guess that is the upside of the issue about people not being happy with Bennett Spring - less crowds for those of us who find fishing just fine!

Who is Terry? Sure ain't me! ;-)

I was down at Bennett Spring 10 days ago (4/27-4/28) during the middle of the week (cool weather and a bit Breezy). I agree that there appears to be less fish than in the mid-summer, but remember - they stock based on average permit sales based on the last several years. There were also definitely less people there than normal, but the fishing was absolutely great. I fished only Zone-1, started at the head of the island then fished down to the big pool above the hatchery dam (twice) - caught more than 2 dozen fish in about 3 hours. Took a break for lunch then after lunch went upstream and started fishing just below the Holland (rock) dam - caught 15 fish in less than 45 minutes in the fast water, then proceeded to move downstream and caught another 15-20 over the next 2 hours. Day #2 I did almost the same thing and the only difference is that I caught even MORE fish - ended up catching well over 100 fish over the 2 days. I was also down at Bennett about 3 weeks before that during early April for 2 days (4/8-4/9) during the middle of the week (you just cannot get me down there on a weekend) and again the fishing was pretty good - on those 2 days I caught more than 80 fish while fishing all the areas in Zone-1. Now I am not sure what equipment y'all are using nor what flies/lures you are fishing, but if you fish dark flies and fish them deep, the fish were more than willing to bite. The other folks I saw doing well were those swinging small wet soft-hackle flies, also those fishing very small white flies (like a mini-crackleback) in the afternoons - they were just knocking them dead on the topwater. I also talked to a couple of guys who had been fishing in Zone-2 and they had caught limits in less than 30 minutes fishing John Deere micro-jigs mid-zone above the hatchery outlet. Now I am not saying that the fishing is the best it has ever been, nor am I saying that they have not had some periods where the stockers have been a little smaller than what we all like to catch - but I did catch more than a dozen that ran over 1.5 lbs including one that was well over 2 lbs. However, to say the fishing it terrible and there are no fish? Not hardly!!!!

Use chicken gizzards instead of livers - just cut them in half (or quarters depending on the size) before covering all three points on a treble hook. Guaranteed they will not come off, and they definitely attract cats!

Thought folks might like to know what it is like dealing with Justin who runs AllenFlyFishing - I ordered several fly boxes from Justin on Sunday 3/7, and he advised that they would ship the following Monday. I went fishing for a few days during the week, so I did not get back until Friday, after waiting for a possible Saturday delivery, I sent Jason a message late Saturday 3/13 night and advised that I had not received the fly boxes. Jason said they had shipped, but apparently were lost in the USPS mail. He said he would immediately ship out a new set of fly boxes on Monday or Tuesday, and would also follow up with a magnetic net holder when he got them back in stock as an apology for the delay. Well, yesterday (Friday 3/19) I got the shipment from Jason, and he went over the top in making up for a delayed shipment! Jason included both a free fly box and a couple of free magnetic net holders. Talk about customer service - WOW! And this was to make up for a lost/delayed shipment that was in all probability not even Jason's fault. Definitely first class customer service! The quality of the fly boxes is very good - they are nicer than the SA box that my friend just bought, and when I told him what they cost his chin almost hit the floor. Definitely a great deal on some great fly boxes! The magnetic net holders are also very nice, small in physical size, which means light in weight, but WOW are they strong! They are much stronger than the one I currently use, which cost a lot more than what Jason is asking for his net holders. There is no question that I will give Jason my highest recommendation - I will buy from him again with no hesitation, and I recommend him to anyone who is looking for fly fishing products.