Tim Smith

...not a whisper in reply. I guess that pretty much sums it all up.

Refuse to make money?? What a convenient, twisted invention this is. The people holding capital are making more money now than they ever have. Their income is up over 300% over the last 30 years (compared to 18% for the bottom quartile). By selling this lie that business can't possibly be expected to participate in the economy until the whole world is kissing their rings, they stand to accrue more political power and more leverage in the long term. Make money? Oh yeah. That's in the plans. Your analysis here is shallow at best...but at this point I've grown tired of cutting that much slack for people who trot this nonsense out into a public forum. It's simply a lie that too many people have swallowed. When people go on strike, they fully intend to make money in the long run. If you have a problem with that tactic, go talk to the speaker of the house who has endorsed it. Unless you're big oil or making over 250K/annum it's pretty darn clear your taxes are staying the same or coming down. No one that anyone listens to has advocated anything else. Their uncertainty comes from hysteria, cynicism, posturing...and lies. Oh really? Nobody took a risk in the 90s? Nobody failed? Business was magical and certain back then? More absurdity and you're dodging the point. Taxes are already low compared to historical levels. A patriotic company would be investing now. Here is about the only place where your response isn't ridiculous. Yes. We have to cut spending. Yes, it might be conservation. But if it is conservation, there is going to have to be a response or we are going to lose opportunities and natural resources. So...private sector champions...how does this happen? What do we do when the public land has been sold and set asides are gone and we've turned into Texas where you can't get whiff of hunting land until you're paying someone through the nose for it. That is the question that is solidly on the table for all of us now. There's no point in flinching until it is answered. Where are the private sector solutions? Oh no, I could be vastly more offensive than that. For instance if I suggested the president (who belongs to my Christian denomination) were a Muslim...that would be pretty freaking offensive. Yet 30% of the population believes that garbage. If I were a birther...that that would be much more offensive...yet at one time 25% of the population believed THAT garbage. If you think the people with those views aren't racist, you haven't been around the campfires I have been or you've kept your eyes shut pretty tight. And GM and Chrysler might not appreciate that you're shoveling on the dirt on them already. Last I checked they were still in business. Every car I've bought for my personal use for the last 20 years has been manufactured by them and in my experience those companies make durable cars that I'm proud to drive. I suppose some of us still need to drive a Beamer (ok, Bimmer) to feel important...and export their manufacturing overseas so they can afford to fill the 3rd and 4th slot in their McMansion garages with one. Sorry Phil. I know this deserves the X and I'll shut up now....just way tired of the nonsense and had to vent.

The Speaker of the House has been very clear about this. The "Job Creators" are on strike. Buisnesses are flush with cash that they won't spend because they're "uncertain". Funny how certain they were back in the 90s when taxes were even higher than they are now. So sure...bury conservation...and the auto industry, and the banking industry and everything else until you get a paler shade of candidate in office but don't expect anyone to believe that economic growth has anything to do with eliminating conservation set asides.

Since it was first authorized in 2008...barely off the ground. But the general trend is going to be toward fewer conservation incentives, less public land and declining support for the regulatory agencies that keep rivers intact... ...problems are coming. There's no real profit motive for individual land owners to keep land open unless they lease.

...and if that flat tax nonsense goes forward you can expect quite a bit more conservation support to fall off the table as other incentives disappear. There has also been talk of selling off public land to cover public debt... ...that light down there isn't the end of the tunnel, fellas. 'Open Fields' Cuts Condemned by Sportsmen Funding for the Voluntary Public Access and Habitat Incentive Program, key to providing access to privately owned lands and waters, eliminated completely in new funding bill WASHINGTON - Sportsmen-conservationists today condemned a federal decision to defund a keystone land conservation program, the Voluntary Public Access and Habitat Incentive Program, also known as Open Fields, that facilitates responsive private lands management practices and public access for activities such as hunting and angling, the Theodore Roosevelt Conservation Partnership announced. "While the necessity of reducing federal spending is inarguable, the truth is that Farm Bill conservation programs like VPA-HIP are critical to <http://www.trcp.org/assets/pdf/The_Economic_Value_of_Outdoor_Recreation.pdf > the more than $95 billion in economic activity annually contributed by hunting and angling," said Jennifer Mock Schaeffer, Farm Bill coordinator for the Association of Fish & Wildlife Agencies. "We are deeply disappointed by the shortsighted decision to completely eliminate fiscal year 2012 funding for VPA-HIP, which can help stabilize an economy already taxed to the point of collapse." The fiscal year 2012 "minibus" conference report, unveiled on Monday by House and Senate appropriators, would fund the U.S. Department of Agriculture along with a range of other federal entities. In addition to VPA-HIP, numerous Farm Bill conservation programs face drastic cuts: . Wildlife Habitat Incentive Program cut by $35 million; . Wetlands Reserve Program cut by approximately $200 million; . Grasslands Reserve Program cut by approximately $30 million; . Environmental Quality Incentives Program cut by $350 million. "Dedicated and ongoing work by the sportsman-conservation community has been instrumental in bolstering Farm Bill programs that play a key role in conserving privately owned lands and waters," said Steve Moyer, vice president of government relations for Trout Unlimited. "Programs such as Open Fields, which address the paramount issue of public access to these areas, help perpetuate our outdoor traditions, along with the significant economic boost they provide rural communities all across the country." A vital part of U.S. private-lands conservation, the Farm Bill has helped conserve and enhance millions of acres of fish and wildlife habitat and the hunting and fishing opportunities they provide. VPA-HIP, which incentivizes owners and operators of privately held farm, ranch and forest lands to provide public access to their lands for wildlife-dependent activities such as hunting and fishing, was included in the 2008 Farm Bill for the first time in large part due to the efforts of the TRCP and its partner groups. "Loss of access is the No. 1 reason hunters and anglers stop pursuing the traditions we enjoy," said Steve Kline, director of the TRCP Center for Agricultural and Private Lands. "For a program like VPA-HIP to be eliminated in the rush to cut spending means Congress will be turning 'Open for Hunting' signs into 'Posted: No Trespassing' signs all across the country, with real impacts on local economies." The TRCP's farm policy work is guided by the <http://www.trcp.org/issues/agriculture/the-agriculture-and-wildlife-working -group> Agriculture and Wildlife Working Group, composed of representatives from the nation's leading sportsmen's groups and formed by the TRCP to provide recommendations to Congress and the administration on Farm Bill conservation programs critical to private lands conservation and hunting and angling.

What a stinking pile of logic and well reasoned observation. Go back, add some invective and politically-motivated name calling so you can be taken seriously. We got standards around here you know.

Nice trip. Just so you're aware, there are sections for posts outside the Ozarks further down the forum list. Apparently people do check them. Since I've found them, I'll probably be using those more in the future. Spec are an awesome sportfish species....superficially like a trout but actually a type drum. The last one I caught was out of a kayak as well. Love that wooden kayak. Does it need special maintenance in salt water?

I've seen some creative marketing in my time...but this one might take the cake.

Time for the X.

Boy this thread took some weird turns. It's hard to see where the original topic went. It would be nice if now and then we could just get cured of politics. http://www.juliansanchez.com/2009/04/30/lying-about-cass-sunstein/ The owners of the Mom and Pop hotel I visted recently on the Big Thompson hardly look like plutocrats. They're more or less nice people and part of a multi billion dollar outdoor industry in Colorado that puts some muscle behind conservation in this state. They also restrict shoreline access to their property (and the fish that our tax dollars put there), as allowed by western water law. As a result, their fishing is better and they can attract more guests. When I was a guest there, it was great to have some water to myself. Now that I'm not, it kinda sucks that I'm not welcome. It's not easy to balance the interests of businesses and individuals in a resource limited world.

How do degraded fisheries in Europe turn into a political slam...especially on the left? Brook trout propogation and fish stocking began in US in the 19th century because we were headed in the same direction as Eurpoe. East coast streams were becoming so toxic and ruined that they trout couldn't spawn in them. In most areas of the country that got worse and worse until the environmental movement kicked in. Thanks to that old communist Richard Nixon and a bunch of pinko environmental groups and jack-booted government agencies who enforce the Clean Water Act we DO have fisheries here and many of those were toxic cess pools when the the interventions began. The people talking about undoing all of that aren't on the left. Of course in a lot of places the stocking that was originally used to prop up US fisheries are the only thing keeping them going. If the government decides it can't afford to do that anymore we're going to be in an interesting place. After all the clamor about the money that recreational fishing generates, it's of no use to the US economy if it doesn't generate export income. And for the most part it doesn't. If the government downsizes substantially (and it will), the private sector or some form of cooperative management is going to have to step in. Those locked down chalk trout streams in England are one possible outcome of that. So are the cess pools of the 60s and hoardes of people fishing for carp. We're going to have to do better than the typical black/white left/right kind of thinking to keep the outdoor experience alive in that environment.

I should have posted this a long time ago. If you're interested in fishing Belize (and you should be), I can definitely help you. I've been in the country on and off living on very (very) limited funds over the last 25 years and while I haven't had that much time to fish it, I've been on the water quite a lot and know the Southern part of the country quite well. Belize has gotten expensive on the high end, but you can still find terrific (rustic, but terrific) places to stay for 25$ a night OR LESS. Want to fish for goliath grouper from a traditional dugout canoe? Want an experienced fly guide at 300/day/boat? Kayak rentals that don't break the bank? Advice on regulations? Reliable, decent, good-hearted taxi drivers? Better food than you can rememeber? I'd be glad to hook you up. I can save you 90$ before you ever get off the plane and a heck of a lot of frustration down the road. PM me if you're interested. http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2010/03/look-for-snook.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2010/02/nice-snook.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2009/05/my-biggest-snook.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2008/08/describing-indescribable.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2009/09/changes-of-pace-big-is-relative.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2010/01/goliath-question-can-catch-and-release.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2011/04/face-of-recovery.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2011/02/random-pictures-of-belize.html http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2010/10/sea-monster-literally.html

Thanks guys. Hopefully I'll know enough at some point to be able to be able to offer help and advice about when you make it out here. At this point I'm enjoying the learning curve and solving the puzzles. So far the fishing's good enough to forgive me my ignorances. Eric, I have been outfished (once) on the same water by fly fishers (and recently managed to outfish spin-tackle fishers with a fly rod) so I realize there is virtue in the technique. I'm not going to give up on it but geez...what a pain. It's not easy to find out I've spent half an hour casting a microscopic fly that had the barb broken off in the tree I hooked on a back cast, or when I miss my third hook set in a row, or when I'm untangling a wind knot or when the pile of line at my feet has decided to have an orgy with a willow bush... ...some days I am most certainly happy to be a rube.

More evidence that we can fix our problems when we try. From the AFS news feed: Virginia Brook Trout Streams Mostly Recovering From Acid Deposition www.virginia.edu November 4, 2011 - Virginia's brook trout streams are showing encouraging signs of recovery - in most cases - from the debilitating effects of acid rain, according to the most recent results from a long-term study led by University of Virginia environmental scientists. "This is good news and real evidence for the value of our national investment in improving air quality," said Rick Webb, a U.Va. environmental scientist in the College of Arts <http://artsandsciences.virginia.edu/home/index.html> & Sciences and coordinator of the Virginia Trout Stream Sensitivity Study <http://swas.evsc.virginia.edu/VTSSS-2010/Survey.html> . "At the same time, there is more to be done, and many Virginia brook trout streams may never fully recover." U.Va., with the support of the conservation organization Trout Unlimited and several state and federal agencies, has been studying the health of Virginia's remote mountain streams since initiating a large-scale survey in 1987. Another such survey was conducted in 2000, and again in the spring of 2010. Quarterly sampling of stream water chemistry also is conducted in 66 streams and regularly in Shenandoah National Park. The study demonstrates a clear improvement in water quality between the 2000 and 2010 surveys. Little improvement was noted between the 1987 and 2000 surveys. Webb attributes this to a delayed effect of streams' ability to purge acidification that has settled for years into surrounding soils and that continues to leach into streams. Janet Miller, a graduate student in environmental sciences <http://www.evsc.virginia.edu/> who analyzed survey data, found that 77 percent of the sampled streams in 2010 were suitable for brook trout reproduction. The 1987 and 2000 surveys showed that only 55 percent and 56 percent, respectively, were suitable for brook trout reproduction. Webb attributes the improvement to the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 that imposed strict regulations on emissions from coal-fired power plants, as well as improvements to technologies that reduce emissions from power plants, automobiles and other machinery. Between 1990 and 2009, sulfur dioxide emissions from coal-fired power plants declined by 64 percent. Dominion Virginia Power, as a notable example, removes 95 percent of the sulfur dioxide emissions from its largest coal-fired power plant, located at Mount Storm, W.Va., which is upwind of Virginia's mountains and Shenandoah National Park. Organizers plan to continue long-term monitoring by conducting surveys every 10 years, and have launched a $500,000 fundraising campaign to support the ongoing studies. They emphasize the importance of maintaining such long-term research on trout streams in Virginia - not only for monitoring their recovery from acid rain, but also for understanding the potential effects climate change and other man-made disturbances. The Virginia Trout Stream Sensitivity Study is one of the nation's largest and most comprehensive long-term stream chemistry surveys. It is designed to track the effects of acidic deposition (often called acid rain) and other factors affecting water quality and related ecological conditions in Virginia's native trout streams. The brook trout is the only native trout in Virginia and the eastern United States. The fish require clean water to propagate and are highly susceptible to acidity deposited to the water from pollution in the air. Brook trout, and the generally pristine and remote streams they inhabit, are considered indicators of the overall health of the environment. In the study, water samples are analyzed for sulfate levels and a stream's natural ability to neutralize acidity. The researchers are finding that sulfate levels are dropping in most streams, indicating that air pollution reductions are having a positive effect on the environment. Due to prevailing winds that carry pollution from coal-burning power plants - primarily sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxides - many mountain streams and forests in Virginia and throughout the Southeast have suffered long-term damage. A given stream's level of susceptibility to acidification is affected by its bedrock composition and the chemistry of nearby soils. Streams with sandstone or quartzite bedrock - about one-third to one-half of the native trout watersheds in Virginia - are most vulnerable to acid deposition because they do not neutralize acid even years after pollution has been reduced. During the 2010 survey, 165 volunteers, mostly from Trout Unlimited and some government agencies, sampled 384 streams, which, together with the program's 66 routinely sampled streams, represent about 80 percent of the forested mountain headwater streams in the state that contain reproducing brook trout. "Through the years this has continued to be a team effort between U.Va. scientists, Trout Unlimited and the U.S. Park and Forest services, the EPA and the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries," said Jack Cosby, an environmental scientist who co-directs the stream study effort. "We've even received a lab equipment grant from the Dominion Foundation. The cooperation between entities that might sometimes seem to be at odds has been inspiring." Data from the survey helps scientists determine the health of headwater streams throughout western Virginia. The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and other federal and state agencies use such data to inform resource management and to develop, evaluate and recommend national air pollution control policies. "It's a cause for hope that so many people share a determination to protect and preserve out brook trout streams and the natural world they represent," Webb noted. "The remarkable volunteer contribution to the trout stream surveys over more than two decades is a real testament to this determination." - By Fariss Samarrai To continue the Virginia Trout Stream Sensitivity Study and a related Shenandoah Watershed Study, the Virginia Council of Trout Unlimited and the University of Virginia are embarking on a partnership to create an endowment to provide significant support for a graduate research fellow. VCTU and U.Va. are working to raise $500,000, which will generate about $25,000 annually toward support of the graduate research fellow. U.Va. will contribute office and laboratory space, and travel and related expenses. For information, contact David Callaghan, development officer for the College of Arts & Sciences, at 434-924-6156 or dcallaghan@virginia.edu.

Had a couple of good trips to Rocky Mountain National Park and added greenback trout to the species list. http://brooksmith.blogspot.com/2011/10/greenback-trout-elk-and-estes-park.html

Ok. But that's a different guy. How's this one coming short?

Now wait a minute... ...you're carrying one side of this discussion. If you think it's important to point out deficiencies I'm willing to respect that and might agree, but you can't just wave generalities. Public officials have complex jobs that can be spun a lot of ways. How do YOU think this man not support conservation?

Maybe it would help those of us not on the inside to evaluate all this if we knew what "not conservation minded" meant.

From the AFS web page: ALEXANDRIA, VA (November 1, 2011) - The Recreational Boating & Fishing Foundation (RBFF) today announced the availability of boating and fishing education grants for 2012. Youth-focused organizations are encouraged to apply for RBFF's National Youth Fishing <http://www.mmsend52.com/link.cfm?r=22160067&sid=16180467&m=1594106&u=boatfi sh&j=7776676&s=http://www.rbff.org/page.cfm?pageID=376> & Boating Initiative, which expands on the organization's boating and fishing education outreach efforts. The application deadline is December 30, 2011. "We're looking for high-quality education programs that will not only introduce children and their families to boating, fishing and conservation, but also foster continued participation," said RBFF President and CEO Frank Peterson. "Our goal is to create future lifetime boaters and anglers who will respect and care for our aquatic natural resources. We urge both new and existing programs to apply." Key requirements of RBFF's education grant guidelines <http://www.mmsend52.com/link.cfm?r=22160067&sid=16180468&m=1594106&u=boatfi sh&j=7776676&s=http://www.rbff.org/page.cfm?pageID=376> include introducing boating and fishing to minorities and underserved communities. Special consideration will be given to programs that offer multiple on-the-water learning opportunities, encourage long-term involvement of participants, foster multi-generational participation, promote conservation education, support existing RBFF partnerships and are inclusive in their programming. Since 2007, RBFF education grants have reached more than 680,000 children. To download the Grant Guidelines and Application and learn more about RBFF's National Youth Fishing & Boating Initiative, visit RBFF.org. Grant applications must be submitted on or before December 30, 2011. Applicants will be notified in April 2012.

Maybe there was a bit of stream before... ..but there are always a few strays here and there. The tendancy to stray apparently varies between species. There is less fidelity among species that range closer in the ocean to their spawning grounds. Less straying occurs among the species that only disperse longer distances offshore (I think...hope I remember that right). After a few years the salmon that wander in by mistake can establish their own runs.

Thanks weedless and you're welcome. Glad to know we're on the same page. I had a Silverado until a couple of years ago and have downsized to a crossover that gets about 30mpg. Can't wait until they start selling the Central American small diesel trucks here that also get just under 30. The Toyota Hilux is a beast and I want it for the mountains here in Colorado. Ford has a good one too. On the other hand, my ex-wife's house still needs more insulation and I should have helped her with that long ago. Maybe next month. Nobody has it all together. We do what we can as we're able.

The Endangered Species Act is a fairly imperfect instrument to keep our natural resources intact, but frankly it's one of the few effective tools we have. Strangling those rivers to water crops elminates any chance of keeping salmon and other fisheries that cross the Central Valley. Delta smelt are a canary in that coal mine...as are many other endangered species elsewhere. I'm a little surprised this Supreme Court upheld this decision, but it was the right one.

So are we all ready to deal with the real world now? http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/45095223?

But your kids probably do.

Seems like a pyromaniac straw man won't be around long enough to worry about. Personally, I missed about half a dozen strikes when I went fishing last week....that's what I'm pissed about at the moment (fly-fishing newb trying to make the switch from spinning gear and needs MUCH more experience nymphing). That seems a much more productive thing to be pissed about than climate change...which can only be addressed by a long, hard slog that will last well beyond any of our lifetimes.