Davy Wotton

JJ, The show you saw was one of 5 we filmed here for Fy Fish TV, a number of years ago. Wet fly ways was a whole new deal, and l do have them available, Phil Lilley also has some in stock, not sure if he still has any left at this time. Do let me know if not. Davy.

It has a great deal to do with what level of water we have here, Low water simply means in many zones virtually no flow rate,and maybe drag the canoe if you do not know how to navigate at tailwater level. Those poor guys who use drift boats !!! That's work. Good flows rates, will give you someting like 2 to 4 mph, depending on your location and cfs flow rate. As a rule say from BS state park you could easily do down to Buffalo city, a little over 30 miles in 3 days or less. Many guys canoe the float from Cotter to Buffalo in one day, 15 miles app. With good water flow rates. Davy.

Troutgod. In essence the true art of fly fishing is to fish a fly that is a representation of a food source a trout is likely to see in its watery world. All be it we as humans cannot and never will close copy a natural food source, and in many cases many of the flies used to day are a far cry from that. We create a act of deception, end of story. It is at high levels consummate of many skills, of that there is no argument. I will also admit after some 50 years fly fishing that the more skilled you become the more you self impose choices of how you wish to catch those fish, which is often the result of catching many 1000s in the past. In other words, stripping say a bugger differs a great deal to fishing a midge rise, a trico hatch, splash and crash is not going to work as a rule here. The most deadly way l know to catch trout is either with maggots or worms, if presented the correct way, which may also be done with a fly rod. The second is with a fly rod and fly. Bait fishing with corn and power bait may well nail the heck out of stock fish, see how well you do with that when fishing for wild fish. Then again fly fishing will do same. Spin fishing can also take its toll no doubt, but l will argue this, l good fly fisher will out gun a spin fisher as the fly fisher has way more options of choice for methods used. In fact l fished a competition many years ago back in the UK, us fly guys easily out fished the spin guys. You cannot fish dead drift, fish in the surface, fish along the substrate, and many other options with metal. Davy.

JJ, Not pushing you here, but l can assure you that you will learn a bunch from my Wet Fly Ways DVD. I have fished this way since 1957. WFWays has been a great success and l am going to shoot vol 2, advanced Wet fly fishing techniques this coming year. I did shoot a new DVD in MT this past August related to still water techniques, here again wet fly fishing can be deadly for both trout and other species, particularly small mouth. Wet fly fishing was and still is one of the major ways fly fishers in my homelands fish, both lakes and rivers, it is once mastered one if not the most deadly of ways to catch Salmonid's in any waterway in the world they live. But it takes time to become proficient at many of the skills, as it does overall require both rod and left hand coordination and perfect line control, as that is the bottom line so far as the fish taking or refusing your fly. I will just tell you this. That for myself wet fly fishing is not simply the act of casting across stream and stripping the flies back. It is overall more deadly when you learn the skills of dead drift at any angle with added animation of the flies used. And to enable that effectively you need a long rod, at least 10ft of not more, l use a 11ft most of the time, which is a mid flex soft action rod, rather like Bamboo. Of course there are very many traditional wet fly patterns, many that l use are well over 100 years old. Many of those of US origin are more related to flies to fish for Brook trout, hence the gaudy colors. The majority of those l use are more somber in shade but may well have the addition of gold or silver bodies. Your choice of fly can really make the difference between no fish, a few or a bunch. I have had days on Brians river, with more than 50 fish, that l can prove by the way, but l also knew what flies to use during the period of the day, as l would change them or the position on the team as conditions during the day dictated, water, overhead light, time of day, size of fly, etc. The traditional flies of the past were flies innovated for Brown trout, as at that time Bows were not introduced into the UK, and when there were, they were only found in isolated reservoirs. It is not practice in the UK or Ireland to introduce Bows into natural loughs or river systems, not that they would reproduce there anyway, they are all hatchery raised fish. That is not to say wet flies are not deadly for Bows as they certainly are. The list of flies Brian gave you are good ones, about the only one l do not use is the lead wing, as l have some welsh fly patterns that are more or less the same. There is one fly that is a must, and that is the Silver Invicta, a deadly fly for Browns, along with some others of my own innovations. I would say this. Overall there are 20 fly patterns that will work in any trout water in the world, size and combination of the flies used and how you fish them is the deal here, as that surly matters. PP, Thanks for the review Brian. JJ, enjoy wet fly fishing, it beats looking at a indicator all day long, and it will heighten your sense of awareness l can assure you, if not you will miss many fish as like nymph fishing you have to hook the fish, unless you are fishing a tight line, then you will feel the take. One golden rule l will give you is this. Watch the fly line or the position you should know your flies are at, and set the hook at the sligtest of indication, fish will not always pull your line. I will hook at least 80% of my fish this way. Davy.

Cardiac, The place you name here in Powys, is in Wales, UK my home lands. l had heard of this happening before, if it be true or other wise l am not sure, if the individuals who witnessed this event were sober or other wise, who knows. Such is Welsh folklore, ask Merlin !! Davy.

Tom, Here is a bit of history for you. In 1952 Richard Walker a noted angler in the UK, caught at that time the record carp of 44lbs, at Redmire, a very famous UK big carp water. He did not wish to kill the fish for the sake of the record and it was transported to London zoo and remained there for very many years. It was called Clarissa. I did get to see that fish. Carp had been pursued for many years prior to Richards record, but the records did not show a fish larger than Richards being caught. There are 3 species of Carp to be found in the UK. The common carp as you see here, the leather, Crucian which is a small species. Common carp are omnivorous, there is more or less nothing they will not eat. In fact l have caught them on fish bait. They are no different to catfish in that respect. They also like catfish are able to survive in ponds that have dried up of water, if there is wet mud, l know as l have dug them out of that before when we have drained lakes. And like catfish they can become very difficult to catch if they are wised up. Grass carp so far as l am aware were introduced here from Asia, l may be wrong about that one. Walker wrote many books related to angling that also included fly fishing. He also innovated many new fly patterns that were very popular in UK, primarily for still waters, in fact he also held the record for rainbow trout at one time. Which was a fish raised in a hatchery and released into a lake, he declined that record on the basis that is was not a wild fish, he eat it. I knew Richard, and have here in my office letters that he wrote to me before his passing, we frequently corresponded on matters pertaining to fly fishing and flies. He was certainly one of the greats in his day, and contributed a great deal to the angling world. On a another note, the matter of the English sparrow interests me. There are only 3 species of sparrow in the UK. The common house sparrow, the tree sparrow and the hedge sparrow. They do differ plumage wise. Here in the USA there are very many more species of sparrow. They are of course a species very similar to the finch family I have as yet not seen here in AR a sparrow that looks the same as any of the species from the UK, and l have killed 1000s of em, l used to feed my ferrets with sparrows back in the UK and also my pythons. So this does beg the question in my book. Are the species we see here a cross bred race with the indigenous finches. In fact l will pursue the answer to that Tom with one of my friends who is one of the foremost authorities on Bald Eagles, and was very much at the front with USFW studies and re introduction of the species along with many other species. May be the English sparrow does not deserve fault here, l know for sure the starling does, but hey you also got clover both red and white from the UK along with many other species of fauna and wild life. And we got catfish, crayfish, Turkeys, gray squirrels, Rainbow trout, Brook trout to name a few. In the UK the common house sparrow is not seen on a regular basis unless you live in the areas they choose to frequent. They are typically not a bird found in woodlands or very rural areas, but frequent more so around built up areas and farm yards. Ain't all bad, we had new species to hunt and fish, and so did you guys !! So far as l am aware of only the Brown trout is the indigenous fish species of the UK to enter the USA. Carp are not a indigenous species of the UK or EU. Foot note here. Ornithology has been a interest of mine since l was a kid. The demise of any indigenous species is largely the result of habitat loss, in some cases the introduction of invasive species and in other cases such as DDT or the use of chemicals that reduce the available food source. Other than that it is due to excess harvest or destruction of the species by humans, usually for profit or gain and in some cases food. So far as l am aware of rod and line fishing has never been the reason for the total demise of a fish species. All for now, Davy

Kind of interesting me me that Carp are becoming a sport fish here in the USA. For myself before l moved here to the USA along with many other species, other than trout, Carp were one of my favorite fish to angle for. Many hours l spent fishing through the night at noted Carp ponds after that elusive 30lb fish. Carp here are way easier to catch with bait, no doubt of that. Carp back in some of the noted UK lakes have a IQ like you do not believe and we used some very sophisticated methods to attempt to lure those fish. The choice of bait was one of the deals along with how you rigged up to catch them. What it amounted to was you produced a secret bait that know one else knew what it consisted of. You would then over a period of time feed that swim until you got the Carp well interested to feed on your concoction, after that you would fish that bait on a given hook rig in the hope that the Carp would take that. I can tell you from experience it was never a done deal. In fact while l was with the Partridge hook company we produced a Hugh range of very special Carp hooks, for the given ways rigs were made up and the type of baits that you would use. I stll have a ton of those here with me. Interesting to me also that many see Carp as a trash fish, but would not say same about trout. So are Pheasants, Chuckers and many more species that guys like to hunt and fish.!!! OK, lets be honest here. Brown trout are also a introduced species, and Bows are the progeny of anadromous strains of Steel head. If it were not for the hatchery programs around the country, you would not find Bows in the many systems you now do, and that includes the rivers out west. They are not indigenous species to those systems. Carp are raised commercially for the table, they are not all bad to eat if you prepare them the right way. I will admit that they are not my choice as table fare. May be l will get the urge to bring out again my Carp rods, reels, lines and all the other crap l have here got Carp fishing. Davy.

Ollie, Yes, Teresa Van Winkle, President of the Neosho National Fish Hatchery, who does of course work with David Hendrix the hatchery manager there. Davy.

My understanding from Tbird who is the president of the Neosho hatchery that stock that creek, is that there is very little if any carry over during the summer period there, way to warm and low water conditions. Not to mention the harvest of those fish during the fishing season. Davy.

The use of thread spin is a very important one for good tying technique. The type of thread you use does have some bering on this, as to what will take place. I use both Danviles fly master 6/0 and UTC 70. These threads can be opened to provide a flat thread wind or twisted to form a tigher rope effect. That process is also important when it comes to forming dubbing spindles, the tying in of winging materials and other techniques. Davy.

Snow fly. The AGFC are at this time discussing with organisations here possible changes for both the White and Norfork. There have been many suggestions put forward. There is at this time no decisions made as to what they will do. I would be surprised to see that for the entire Norfork river to be honest. The two docks at the dam zone would object to that one big time, as largely the customer base there would fish with bait. And many others do also at the dam zone. As you may know the C and R zone prohibits that. Also here the Norfork river is where the kids derby day is held, and bait is used at that time I will let you know as soon as l do what may take place here in AR. Davy.

When you take a driving test you take both exams. Written and practical. Does this requirment also require a practical test while on the water. If it does not, then in my view it is lacking in substance so far as its validity to determine the individuals ability. Just a question here by the way. Davy.

Yes, agreed Sowbug time is not good for me either. I have a FHNFH membership drive after SB at the Ramada, to enlighten all who attend what we are about and what our aims are. Davy.

OK, Phil will do, my deal is my age now days, lacks memory, not when it applies to catching fish mind you !! Davy.

OK, guys, enough talk here on the board. Let us at least set a date for a inargural get together soon. Any thoughts for location and time. Davy. http://davywotton.com

Read all the above posts pertaining to the thread, very interesting. As some of you are well aware of, so far as guides that work here on the White and Norfork rivers, and the little red as well as other water ways, there is as such no requirement from AGFC for anything other than the amount due for the licence, and in some ways it is a nonsense. There are very few guides l know that carry for one insurance. At one time the Guide association did have the means to cover members, not so to day. I pay $900 yearly for coverage, both for my boats, motors, on and off the river as well as personal liability. Some of the other fly guides l know also have coverage. I also have a CPR and EMS certification. Back in the UK, l did have a certified navigational requirement. It is my understanding that the AGFC will introduce some new regulations here, as yet to be decided. It was discussed at a meeting that this would apply only to guides who worked on the trout water systems. That l do not buy, if it is going to become a regulation for licence to guide then it should apply to all, no matter where you fish and guide. I also believe that insurance coverage should be mandatory. In so far as the requirements for navigational skills, l am not sure about that one. Working rivers is a great deal different to working large open waters, inland or the ocean. OK, l will go with some sort of acceptable requirement for rivers such as the White, after all you an only go to ways here, up and down stream. Almost all the boat accidents here are caused by either persons who rent boats or those who just do not know how to navigate the water ways safely. It is very rare indeed that a guide is the cause. So in that respect how do you deal with say persons who rent boats are they to be also controlled, if the issue is one of safety for the public at large. And for that matter drift boats should not be excluded either, as there have been many deaths related to drift boat accidents, rafts and other craft of that nature, without the use of motors. In fact l know of 3 persons who where almost drowned when a guide turned the boat over in Montana. The issue here on the White needs to be one of competence to use a boat, with or without a motor. The vast majority of navigational requirements as for open waters do not apply. Given the fact that the AFGF issue licences to guides, it should also be for them to determine acceptable standards as required. And it may well be so that if guides here did have to conform to OUPV many of them would not be working on this river. Certainly any form of class room test does not in any way determine that the operator of a craft has the ability to do so, but l accept there may well be some credibility to do so. Davy. http://davywotton.com

Ducky, I am interested to know where you read that such bait as corn, marshmellows etc will likely be prohibited. I assume here we are dealing with MO and not AR. Davy. http://davywotton.com

Amen. Davy.

OK, guys, where do we go from here. Tom, Dano and myself have had some previous discussions so far as holding a inaugural meeting, and that is still something l would like to pursue. We had intended to do that this past year. For those of you interested to pursue this endeavor, l would ask of you this. Make a list of who you think should be invited to a meeting. Those individuals or organisations that you believe will join us in a positive way. That should also include persons of some political standing. Lawyers and so on. I will then arrange a date for a meeting, with all invited to attend and see where we can go from there. Before a general meeting as such that the public at large would be invited too. This is the only way l can see at this time such a movement can be in some way come together with a common interest. Unless any of you have a further idea. Send to my personal e-mail address your list, l will compile those and from then on get together with a number of you to get the ball rolling. Consider also your thoughts so far as what we should be known as. Such a organisation that generates funds will have to be 501c3 registered. If we are in any way soliciting funds and donations to the cause. As some of you know, l have already been through much of this organising the Friends of the Norfork National Fish Hatchery. While this organisation is to a large extent a advocate for the hatchery, only so far as membership and generating funds for the community at large to benefit from additional educational activity, a visitor center, improvements to dry run creek and so on, we still have the means through this organisation to bring to the attention the issues of water quality, as that is also directly related to the hatchery, as they also suffer mortality due to that factor. I came here to AR from Wales in the UK, and the main reason why l chose to do so was because of the fishery. In the time l have been here l have seen it decline rapidly, and many of you out there have seen like wise. Above all apathy is not going to bring this to the attention of the community at large. We can only try, at least those of us who have a interest can make a attempt to do so. my e-mail address is. davyfly@ozarkmountains.com Look forward to hear from you. Davy.

Fox, I do not disagree with anything you have stated here, as l have seen same results in other places, along with water abstraction being consequential to the demise of a fishery. And l for one am very well aware of the long term consequences to this fishery as it stands now. However, the questions begs to be asked. I am all in favor of setting up some kind of organisation and l know many others also who would be well involved. The reality is, at least the way l see it as of now, is that such a organisation would have to have considerable funds to be able to proceed with a law suit, lawyers cost money as you well know. OK, that said. If you were your self in a position to forward such a law suit, how would you propose to do it ? There is also one other question l would like to know the answer to, if there is one. We all know that AGFC are well aware of the situation here, and they do make public the fact that there is a decline with fish growth in this system As a State organised body as such, why do they themselves not seek via the legal channels to enforce EPCC to do something. I am well aware of the fact the the standards for water quality here in AR are way less than OK. But am not aware of what exactly they are and how they are related to animal waste, as a example. Does AGFC themselves just accept the situation as it is or not. Davy.

Two stroke motors are no longer produced as of about 2 yrs ago. I would buy a 4 to morrow if they allowed for a shallow water drive system which the 2 stroke does. Navigation on the river without that is not at all easy to say the least when we have low water flows. So far as jets are concerned l have no use for those either way too noisy, very limited degree of manouverability when running at low speeds. And they cause way more damage to the substrate than a chain due to the fact they draw water in and push it out, and that includes vegetation and gravel. In fact they will quit on you at times because of that. In the event they did ban chains on the White, l would not protest that. So far as the vegetation from BSD down. Certainly at the dam zone it is sparse, as you move downstream gastons zone you will see way better. The sections below Cotter to Crooked creek do contain very good vegetation. From there to Norfork there is little. From there on down not too bad. More so moss covered rock and not dense weed growth. More or less from Redds down to Sylamore you will have both large expanses of gravel and sections that do have good vegetation. Certainly from CC down to Norfork there is a great deal of substrate movement that would preclude good hold for vegetation.Blame the gravle mining for that one, and of course natural run off from the Buffalo. In so far as its comparison of the past, wish l knew that one myself Tom. Davy.

John, Thank you for your compliments here. I guess in some ways l am from the old school when it come to common courtesy for other rivers users. I wish all were of the same mind. Yes, what you see is didy, that is how it came to be known here. Anglers thought that is was sewage waste from the plant at BSD. We know different to day. Drag chains. The main reason for use is this, they will keep the bow of the boat facing upstream, they may not slow the boat drift speed down, as that would depend on many things such as depth, speed and substrate. They will also help stop the boat from moving in to right and enable anglers to have better drift control. The alternative is as many do, is to keep the motor running, and at low revs there is a high discharge of oil residue into the water, not to mention the fumes and the motor noise. There are some guides here that will keep a motor running all day from the get go to the time they quit fishing. Are drag chains detrimental to the river substrate. I can only say this. for a fact continuous wading will cause the demise of aquatic vegetation, that in turn of course reduces food base habitat. Same scenario as a well walked path through a grass field. It is also more so detrimental to redds as here you are dealing with the shallow water zones, as a rule within gravel substrate. As a rule you would not use a chain in low water, you do not need to as a rule. But l will accept that when we have adverse winds such as a bad up stream, or cross winds the only way to afford drift control is to use the motor, either to help back down stream or to maintain a straight line drift. Do l think that they are detrimental to the substrate. I have stood in the front of my boat and watched what does happen as that chain moves. Moss beds of course are tailing down stream with the flow. The drag chain does not rip moss beds up in the way you would imagine it to do so. As a rule it simply rides over the moss. Chains are not of a great weight to start with, and tethered as a rule to a short rope of 10 to 15ft. Of course l do accept that in some cases they are not the best option to use, and it is not for myself at least a question of use at any time. More so when l have adverse conditions to deal with, and l would rather use the chain than the motor to be honest. The Norfork is a very different river to the White and a way more fragile environment, and it may well be that the use of chains there did have some detrimental effect. On the other hand so does running a motor all day, and if we fish that river for the aspects of safety when we have high water there you have to rely on the motor. The only other answer is the use of a drift boat, saying that, many of the guys who use those here also run a motor. Motor or chain, either way both do have a downside. Davy.

RR, I can assure you that the AGFC are well aware of the situation. Like l said in my previous post, it remains to be seen what will be done. This fishery can recover very fast, there is no doubt of that, after the problems are dealt with. Davy.

Pat, This is a subject matter that has been debated for well over a 100 years or more in the trout and salmon world. There may well be some related factors to how well or otherwise good or bad fishing will be. As yet l have seen no conclusive proof that is the case I do not know of any person who determines his day to fish by moon phases, l certainly do not. Just go fish and deal with each day and the prevailing conditions that exist. Davy.

Tom, I will say nought when you beach that 10lb Brown. DW