Arofishing

I agree, gotta use it sometime though. Don't want the dust clogging it up... And don't worry, most of the trip will be me demonstrating just how much of a fly fishing aficionado I am (yeah right).

It's their 7 mile float. Anyone done this stretch recently? Anything work particularly well? I haven't been out to Jamesville since the beginning of July. Didn't have much success fishing there, but that was when the temps were 100+. Taking both the fly rod and spinning gear. Plan is to use the spinning gear sparingly until we get to riffles, then take out the fly rod with which I'll do most of my fishing. It'll be interesting to use my spinning gear, haven't used it in months .

Ok, I'm prepared to chalk up that first night and morning to not enough weight, perhaps other things too, but this was probably the main culprit. We were only using .06. Once we got in the canoe we put on more weight, and that is the only time I caught any fish, that after you told me to keep it pretty close to the fly too. I don't change flies or lures very often in general. Once the black bugger got a fish I just used it the rest of the day. I'm not impatient about lure/fly selection, more than happy to use the same thing all day long so well as it produces relatively well compared to other things. (I'd often use nothing but my frugal frog popper when smallie fishing). Placing the indicator near my fly line helped too. On my first trip I was trying to use it to control depth and never had much success. Moreover, I couldn't see why everyone was shoving indicators down my throat because 1) I can tell when a fish is on (duh!) and 2) I could barely tell initially whether it was the current, a fish, a rock, or something else pulling my indicator under. Well, once I moved the indicator up and started paying closer attention to it and got a feel for 2), specifically when the indicator going under was just a function of the current, I realized I didn't have that good a sense of when 1) was happening as soon as I could be. I'd say about half the time I got a good tug and knew a fish was on. The other half the time I just saw my indicator go down, set the hook, and a fish was on though I was just guessing. So I certainly see the merit in an indicator now. I've pretty much decided not to use my 6X tippet ever again unless I'm dry fly fishing for some super spooky wild trout or told otherwise. It is a pain to tie even a simple clinch knot. I was using 5X but really like the idea of 4X now that you told me it will work.

And here I was thinking .3g was too much! We did manage to lose a few nymphs in rocks, so we were doing something right in those spots, but maybe it was just more shallow. I'll have to buy some bigger weights! I went with the smaller assortment (.06-.3). That's one of those things I should have asked.

Thanks Brian, very helpful.

j Thanks for the clarification on "letting it swing." I don't always have so much line out that I need to retrieve it before casting, but its often the case that a spot looks productive that I can't get to just swinging the pole without false casting. I think that is where having more experience and being a better caster comes in handy, as I assume you, Brian, etc... can reach those spots. In any case, I'll practice in my backyard. I can't really simulate on the rivers/streams I normally fish as there aren't many riffles where the water gets that fast. I was looking at hiring a guide more from a fishing strategy point of view, not from a teaching fundamentals one. No doubt I would benefit from advice and teaching in that area, and I realize a guide can help with that. It's also nice to learn that Brian in particular is good at imparting that sort of training because plenty of guides aren't. But I was thinking I wouldn't want to spend much of my guide time learning fundamentals because, as helpful as that would be, I think it would be more conducive to do that sort of thing in a controlled environment in the form of a casting class etc... At the same time and to your point, taking a class in a controlled environment will not simulate the real world conditions of the river, i.e. with the fast water taking your control line down stream, or learning how to fish a nymph, so there would definitely be value to learning on the water right now. I'll give it some more thought, thanks. It would have to wait till next year in any case since I've just purchased everything I need from the ground up this summer. There is no way I can justify a guide to myself or my wife at this point . There's always birthdays though.

Really enjoyed the story, thanks Al.

Absolutely, hope I can repay the favor someday. Part of me doesn't want to use them at all and just use them for prototypes and keep them around for aesthetic value on my shelf, seriously. But I wouldn't do that, I know they were given to me to catch fish! I took a lot of pictures for prototypes in the future. A couple questions: What material are you/others using for the hair on the clouser minnows? Is it synthetic? What material is used for the body of the buggers, it's almost like tinsel? I really want to get some of this stuff for buggers. I've found flash yarn almost like this, but I really want to get some of this stuff to avoid using hackle as much as possible Are you using the same stuff, just a different color, for the body of the bug with the rubber tail and the gurgler? If not, what is it? Sorry for all the questions.

I've noticed that the first mend, if I make it quickly after my cast, seems to work the best and move the indicator the least. So I was already, as you're describing, placing a lot of emphasis on that initial mend and making smaller mends throughout the rest of drift (the reason being I couldn't make substantial mends after that). It helps to know that the important thing is not to bring "the fly up above the fish." A lot of times we're told to do something and not the reason why, up till now I just figured I didn't want to make it move erratically so the fish would miss a strike, lol! When you say "let it swing" I'm assuming you mean just stop mending, let the bug drift past your body, and as the slack tightens, the bug will rise (indeed, this is when I've gotten most my strikes). Often I have to strip some line in because I've casted far enough out that I can't just flip my line back up stream. I've seen videos, including ones on this forum on the NFoW where you guys are just casting, drifting, picking up the line again with the rod, and throwing it right back out there - not really using your control hand at all. I also saw a couple of seasoned guys fishing like this on my first trip to the NFoW. I think that's what you're describing. I don't know if it's skill thing, or I'm not as close to the riffle I'm trying to fish, but at this stage, unless I'm quite close to where the fish are, I have to retrieve some of my line to load it lest I get insufferable knots or hook myself ala Mr. Wise . It doesn't seem like fishing like this would have much of an effect on presentation, so long as I "let it swing" the whole way through. It likely means I just don't get my bug back in the water quite as fast, and now that I know I want it near the bottom more than anything, I also know that it is rising and staying towards the top when I'm retrieving it=not likely to get a strike. In any case, I'll work on throwing without actually false casting. Thanks for the info on dries. I think all fly fishermen want to use them more than anything, but I'd much rather catch some trout . Wish I would have tried my hopper patter now, though. It was the only thing that worked for me at Roaring River last month. I will definitely get a guide one of these days. Right now I'm waiting to get more confident with my casting and tying. I'd hate to get out there and spend as much of my time as I do now just screwing up things unrelated to my hook being in the water. The frustration is fleeting, and the fact that it's tough is exactly why it's so intriguing, that coupled with the fact that the trout are beautiful and carry a certain mystique about them. I have no worries about being discouraged from fishing for trout, just being in the ice cold water and trying not to fall down a riffle makes it more exciting than fishing from a boat, not to mention the scenery . It's actually the stuff that goes wrong coupled with not catching fish that gets frustrating (losing bugs on bad knots, getting tangles in tippet etc...). I was very pleased and excited to catch the three trout that I did, felt terrible for my friend who didn't catch one (lost one in the air though). I was beginning to feel somewhat confident about my prospects towards the last mile of the float, unfortunately we ran out of riffles. So my main goal is to get him a trout next trip. Hopefully, as in my case, the second trip will be more fruitful than the first. Unrelated but funny story, the only time I've gotten a hook stuck in me was also on the NFoW. My first trip my wife had my open reel, got it caught in a tree. I yanked it down and got one hook of a treble hook spinner stuck in my arm past the barb. That was quite an experience, about a half mile from RoL, nearly passing out from this hook in my arm, she had to hold me up. It took about 10 minutes to get it out with pliers. What finally worked was my wife pressing my skin down and me pulling the hook with the pliers as hard as I could. Human skin is tough!

Huge shout out and much thanks to Flysmallie for sending me the following assortment of bugs. He even included his latest creation, the very sexy hair lip frog. Don't know what I did to merit this kind of generosity, and despite the ulterior motives that some may want to attribute to him, I can report that I found no love note to substantiate those untoward rumors. I am just incredibly thankful, and frankly, a little speechless at the quality and the amount I received. OAF is such an awesome place with posters like this hanging around! I'll be sure to use these this Friday on the James. Family is coming down for a reunion on Table Rock and I talked a couple of my cousins into coming down early to float out of Hootentown Friday morning.

Good luck! I've never had much success up stream of the 125 bridge. But I've been happy with the production down stream this summer. There are some big pools up stream, just not as many noteworthy catches.

Ahh, I wondered if that was you in the golf cart. My friend and I had run into a number of employees who weren't you that I just didn't think to ask or introduce myself. I'm not surprised when I don't have success. Like I said, it was my second time and the conditions, especially the speed of the current, are so different on the North Fork that I spend almost as much time just getting my hook in the water (untangling knots, messing with tippet, which I don't normally use, etc...). I get experience casting and stripping when fishing for bass, but something like nymphing I've only learned to do by watching Youtube videos. Is there a way to mend that doesn't move your fly? I've found that at certain spots in the drift, or maybe its just that I have more slack on those casts, I can mend without moving the bug. Is that important? (I would think it is). Does anyone know of a way to do this more consistently? Also, do people strip buggers much on the river or just dead drift? Finally, I rarely hear anyone talking about dry flies. Are they productive only at certain parts of the year? I tried a caddis for a bit Monday morning without luck.

My second trip to the NFoW to fish, began much like the first, which is to say, unproductive and frustrating. Fished for about 4 hours on Sunday just off of Sunburst - nothing. But I almost died! Ok, that's hyperbole, but I did lose control and had water coming up over my waders for a few minutes . Fished Monday morning from 6-9 - nothing. I lost plenty of bugs though and had an exceptionally frustrating time trying to tie things for whatever reason. Well I suppose I did catch two monster shad in this time. My friend managed to catch a monster shad of his own, two carp, and a decent largemouth. We headed out on the canoes Monday about 11, stopping randomly at islands and riffles as the ladies had patience for it. Finally, finally got what I came for. First was a small 10 inch or so brown that I got to hand but lost immediately, so no pics of that. Second was the rainbow below, I didn't measure it against my pole but I think it was around 16 inches, if not a bit more. Got a unnoteworthy smallie at that same spot after that. About an hour later got another rainbow just over 14 inches in another riffle (actually measured that one). Never had any luck with nymphs or the pats. I caught all my fish Monday on a black bugger with .3g split shot about 6 inches up from the bug. Mostly just dead drifting, since this type of fishing is really beyond my skill range right now that is about all I can do efficiently. I have my hands full just mending my line and preventing my slack from ending up 20 yards down stream. A couple of the fish struck when all of us say they shouldn't have: when retrieving the bug up stream, against the current, preparing to cast again. I've now caught 3/4 of my trout like this on the NFoW. Want to thank the folks at Sunburst for a great time, very accommodating and helpful. Planning to make a trip out there for fall break, sans our significant others this time to do some more rigorous and focused fishing. Not sure I ever spoke to you Justin, if you're reading this, I'm the one in black in the pics below. And in case you are wondering about the durability of TFO rods. I have a new stress test record of sorts. Stupidly, very stupidly left my rod on the top of my friend's car while he as packing his stuff and left it there. It flew off the top right at the Hwy H exit from Sunburst, in its rod sock. Somehow, someway managed to fortuitously land parallel with the center line in the middle of the westbound lane so that it never got ran over. It has a scuff on the reel lock but other than that it is fine.

Definitely hitting up Dead Drift. My friend is heading out sans flies, so he is going to stock up there. I hoped to get in Justin's ear while I was there. I recently bought an assortment of 70+ flies mostly new (some used) from Ebay with a fly box, so I want to use those for the first time. I'll try the Pats though, thanks. Sunday will be spent wading, probably nearer to Sunburst. When I watched Brian's video presentation from 2010 it looked like the "rock garden," if recalling the name correctly, was just above Patrick bridge. Brian really talked it up and it looked gorgeous, so that is our first choice, just hoping that is a walkable distance from Sunburst. Monday we'll head further down stream in the canoes where I hear the big boys are. And thanks for the tips Brian.

I like my White River Osprey, $100 from Bass Pro. Not sure if it would be as light/small as you'd like though. Also, the Lamson Konic seems to have many fans on this forum, about $130.

Just wondered if there was any last minute info on the NFoW floating (har, har) around for the novice fly angler. I already know the "foam is the home" and The Falls are overrated (won't be that far up stream anyway). Anything working exceptionally well, any hatches? Read something about a Trico - I have no idea what that is . Will be staying at Sunburst, floating on Monday, gotta any spots you recommend I go to? I'd like to catch more fish than full beer cans this time around! Thanks for indulging me.

They make quality products and I think they operate their business responsibly, so I'm happy to support them. Just not usually at a 100% inflated cost related to their competitors. So if I can get their stuff competitive relative to the other guys, I'll usually get it every time. I ended up spending $200 on waders, which is what I was inevitably going to spend anyway, so a win-win as far as I'm concerned.

So after I had bought all my fishing and fly fishing gear, including some initial things to tie some flies, I made a decree to my wife and my best friend who fishes with me: "No more superfluous spending for the rest of the year!" Well, because I've bought a lot of superfluous stuff this summer, much more than any previous. The very next day Patagonia had a 50% off sale, and guess who needed waders for his new hobby in the colder months? Also guess who could "rationalize" this exorbitant expenditure because it was an "eventual need" and such a "tremendous value?" Oh yeah, and it is my "anniversary present" - there are so many ways one can play this game! Another $300 later I had some waders and some boots (rock grip). (You can do the math to figure out how much that would be without the sale, hint: it's double). To qualify for the sale I'm assuming these were mostly overstock items (indeed, the size I got is being discontinued=slow sales) and a clean out of the inventory sort of situation (indeed, Patagonia came out with a redesign in 2011). Thus, the fit is not ideal. I'm not a "big" man, but my shoe size would commit me to a large wader in nearly all that I've looked at. I ended up getting a large-medium, essentially a large on top and medium on bottom because that was my only option. I don't really need the extra space on top, but I figure I can put some cans of beer in there or just start lifting some weights again. Better yet, I could put our older dog in there, he hates the water anyway.... Oh well, I know that extra space will come in handy for our yearly trek to Ontario in late May(=numerous layers). Everything is adjustable so I can get a nice, snug fit. The booties are made for shoe size 8-10. I have just over size 10 feet, so trying to stuff some wool sucks in these things will be chore, but I'm not too concerned. They arrived yesterday, so naturally I wore them around the house all day. Ok, it wasn't that bad, but I did on two separate occasions, once by myself for an hour in a rather vain moment in front of the mirror I'm not too proud of. And then once for my wife later because she was just so, so interested . So I had them on for nearly two hours, and was pleasantly surprised at how much I didn't sweat - though I was sweating - and nothing compares to the joy of sitting down and inflating like a balloon in the lower half of your body. I'm also impressed with the weight and construction of the waders, they seem very durable, and I have a hard time imagining puncturing these things, though I'm told it's inevitable. On that note, another perk is Patagonia's replacement policy, they really stand behind their products, and they ought to given the price. I'll be trying them out for the first time this week on the North Fork so I'll let you know how they perform when I get back. I'm sure that will be a real scintillating post, consisting of "yep, they didn't leak, who'da thunk it?"

I'm not that easy .

At the confluence, or should I stop pretending I know the landmarks of river sections I've been to a total of one time? Were you fishing for pike?

Awesome! You spoil me, sir, verily. Thanks a bunch!

Thanks for this informative thread, as a nascent fly tier I've learned a lot! I've strictly been tying bass and panfish bugs thus far due to their relative ease, but this info will prove invaluable in the future.

Oh that is so awesome to hear! I'll be staying with you guys Sunday night for the first time, my second trip to the NFoW, the first being to RoL early in July. I only caught two trout my first trip, but I literally had just begun fly fishing (had to get Myron at ROL to help me with some knots ). I'm hoping with a months experience under my belt, a new rod and reel, and three times the amount of flies this time will be better. How did the Musky trip go you guys, did I miss a report somewhere?

There are some reels in the $50 price range I'd get before an automatic. I have experience with both, and did have a potentially terrible hiccup with an older automatic reel on my bro in law's setup. For whatever reason it stopped reeling in right in the middle of fishing, it also wasn't the most reliable before that. I didn't have a fish so it was no big deal and I eventually got the tension back somehow. I should also note that this reel was not well maintained and looked to be 10+ years old. I'd also echo the sentiment that fishing with an automatic is "boring" - at least more boring than the challenge of keeping your line tight and reeling in by hand. But 90% of the fish I catch I could just bring in with my control hand anyway, so you may find that you don't use the reel that much anyway. You might check the Bass Pro Outlet Center, they have plenty of manual reels there in the $15-40 range as I recall, less than a month ago. More than 5 of them.

I have a lanyard. But I also wear a shirt that has two fairly big pockets for my fly box and other miscellaneous stuff. I would eventually like a vest.