Midwest troutbum

The lake of the ozarks is possibly the best example of the degredation of the commons. I would say its a safe bet it looks like a giant trash heap or salvage yard for man made waste on the lake bottom. Its amazing it hasn't been clasifed as a federal Superfund site with all the heavy metals leaching into the ecosystem. Its a shame the rivers and land beneath it are destroyed forever. Probably would have been similar to or better than the ozark national scenic riverways. Arguably some of the most scenic and valuable land of Missouri and of the midwest ruined for only 50 years of fun with inefficient gas and oil powered sports. Hope there is a underlying valuable lesson to be learned for future generations

Most Corps of Engineers projects in my mind are a complete disaster, from the false sense of security they try to sell or the idea to always control nature instead of working with it. River dams built with taxpayer dollars to later be destroyed during floods are a prime example of how they misuse and misappropriate taxpayer money. They hide behind weasel clauses and always deny when they are wrong, claiming it is a 500 year flood, or 1000 year flood, when in reality they just won't admit their defeat to nature or admit nature had it right all along. Most engineers I know have little to no understanding of biology, botany, ecology etc, but only know how to build it bigger mentality...

Librarian or library is an excellent idea.... Also try writing the Department of Entymology (study of insects) at any 4 year university...The professors or departments usually have small paperback publications that are particular to the region.

I applause the enthusiam to go wade fishing in any of Missouri's rivers and creeks. Unfortunately, and realistically, the Meramec river anywhere east of Bourbon MO in my opinion continues a long history of a polluted watershed in new and old landfill waste, trace chemical and element waste from runoff, development, local factories, business and roadways and many other sources and reasons. Water quality exponentially gets worse the closer you get to St. Louis. Oxygen levels drop and keep the most sport fish populations relatively low or non existent. The Meramec is a treacherous in at any water level or weather condition, as one can not effectively see what is just below the surface. Many people including good swimmers have drown in this river in just a few feet of water in the past few years near St. Louis. So best of luck catching anything healthy, and not drowning or getting a staff infection in the muddy, polluted, river way known as the Meramec. I hope one day this river will be in much better health, but until that distant day I believe my report holds true. I also applaude the work of stream teams on this river, and realize it continues to be an uphill battle with most polluters.

Just some interesting thoughts on the topic..... Situation #1: If the fish died on the stream banks while the photo was taken, no matter what season, and or if the fish was not the legal length, would the angler be in violation of any MO fish rules and regulations? Situation #2: If the fish was the legal length for the area, it was no creel season, the fish dies, could the person be fined and or prosecuted by law? The answer to both of these situations is yes. People have been prosecuted for less of an infraction. Why increase the odds of the fish dying while in your possession, and or put yourself in that position either by accident or otherwise? Don't leave it up to the conservation agent watching you in the woods nearby or courts to decide your fate. It is increasingly difficult to be up to date on all fishing regulations in this state. Many areas have specific regs for that area that take precedence over general state fishing regs. Their is no current requirement for fishermen to take a fishing class for their fishing license. (Compared to MO hunters, which are required to take classes and time in the field until they are allowed to hunt on their own legally.) We should all brush up on our fishing regs, no matter what level of fishing knowledge we have and practice good stewardship of the resources we are blessed to have. Length limits from general fishing rules and regulations according to MDC website on 2/4/2012: A minimum length limit means that fish below a designated length must be returned to the water unharmed immediately after being caught. A slot length limit or protected length range means that fish within a designated length range must be returned to the water unharmed immediately after being caught. A maximum length limit means that fish above a designated length must be returned to the water unharmed immediately after being caught. Remember no matter what the fishing season, a fish of non-legal length shall be returned to the water unharmed. In which case the angler could be subject to fines and punishable by law. Please see the MDC website for more information and specific information to the body or bodies of water you will be fishing. Dry rock abrasions, removal of fish scales, removal of fish slime, if excessive or leading to the death of a fish while in possession, have also historically been considered harm by a conservation agent and in a court of law. Preaching to the choir on my soapbox, We are all interested in successful fishing trips. One proven method to improving fishing opportunities is to reduce fish stress by keeping the fish in the water even during photos. NO the fish is not human, however science, studies, data and evidence suggest fish that remain in water live longer. Fish "stress" may be directly linked to dry rock abrasions, handling and removing fish from the water. Fish get most of their oxygen while in water through their gills. Due to these gills fish are unable to process and obtain most oxygen while out the water. Keep fish in the water even during photo events in which you will keep the fish. It demonstrates your deep knowledge of the subject, reduces your liability and or protects yourself from prosecution, respect for our sport, respect for our conservation efforts, respect for our heritage and history, respect for your other fishing friends, respect for your own future fishing outings and provides a teaching moment for everyone new to the hobby/sport.

Some of the smaller tomato varieties, except for Roma's were a challenge to grow last year in St. Louis. The high humidity provided a ideal environment for plant diseases to thrive. They keep a stronghold and we faught hard for the few and considerably smaller tomatoes on our plot. Hope to keep the diseases at bay this year by planting plants further apart, keeping more in containers or our raised beds thus providing better air circulation. Limiting our selection to disease resistant strains will help, as well as close regulating any supplemental water and nutrients but inevitably it will be up to mother nature to provide the best natural conditions.

As a degreed horticulturalist, I would comment the first several sentences on the description of the Cotoneaster are fair, but diverges into an arguably incomplete and somewhat inaccurate post for the detail oriented plant geek. The most shocking line is suggesting taking advice from a building inspection expert on plant material.Building experts are the last people you would want suggesting plant material for your yard. It is comparable to taking advice from a plumber on the best colleges to attend or how to cook a turkey. Would you have any idea as to maintenance, hardiness zone requirements, and suggested microclimates for which the cotoneaster species is best suited? There are many superior alternative plant selections to the Cotoneaster for rock gardens in any hardiness zone or climate. In St. Louis and within 200 miles in any direction, the number of rock garden worthy herbaceous perennials outnumbers the woody selections. For the best results, the first thing one should do is determine the hardiness zone where the planting is going to be, and analyze the soil type and microclimate. Then determine an overall plan for the area to be designed. Narrow the plant search by height, width limitations and maintenance requirements. Low maintenance includes any watering requirements, pruning requirements, and seasonal cleanup. The worst thing in the world is to pick woody plants based on the little size you see at the store. Most plants get much larger in mature height and width than the sales tags will give credit. Select plants at their mature sizes that best suit natural climate or environment requirements. Also consider power lines on anything that grows larger than 8'-0" in height. If you select plants that do not fit the conditions in your yard or property, you will find your free time spent on replacing plants, excessive water bills, pruning, and maintaining your investment. Do your homework prior to planting. Select plants that naturally fit with the microclimate, of solid landscape design principles and are aesthetically appealing. It will save you time, effort and money in the short and long run. The Cotoneaster species requires a decent amount of maintenance, particularly if planted anywhere near (several hundred feet or more) of oak and or deciduous trees. You will find yourself cleaning out the plant regularly in the fall, as this plant is a leaf magnet and will disappear under layers of leaf material. It is more of a medium growth plant near St. Louis, and many great alternative plants to Cotoneaster horizontalis are available at landscape nursery centers throughout the midwest. Ask a horticulturalist, botanist, or licensed landscape design professional for the best advice on plant material. Leave pest inspection to exterminators and building inspections to code enforcement officers or licensed building construction professionals.

Its a global world we live in today... rapid transportation and access, fish this location, later here, then there... all in one afternoon... Could this be a major contributor to the spread of didymo? Travel from countries abroad has always been a issue with the spread of disease and or biological leading potentially to environmental catastrophe. Look at the emerald ash borer happening right now in the horticulture/arboriculture worlds, dutch elm disease, japanese honeysuckle, kudzu, asian carp, etc. All of these can be contributed to mostly human introducing exotics from the transportation of a plant, insect, disease, from one place to another either legally or illegally. Either more legislation and or enforcement limiting transportation and import/exports, or no legislation. Anything in between is just placing a bandaid on the situation or slowing the inevitable. Lets see more proactive educational opportunities on these topics open to all people. The first step in prevention is education.

Comfort Suites in Rolla (exit 186) can't be beat for a great rate, clean rooms, and a continental breakfast. The hotel is relatively new as well. Within sight of Hwy 44, and a short drive to Hwy 63. All the small streams & creeks you mention are not to far as well. Many places to eat in Rolla.

Could it be possible multiple reasons prevent a large scale fly shop from thriving at Montauk? 1) The shop at Montauk caters to what sells and markets to the summer tourist crowd? a.k.a marketing? 2) If I had a great fishing hole and knew what was the best fly to use, i'd be hesitant to openly share and promote that info with every stranger and or tourist to the area. (Keep the fishing pressure down). I personally know of people in the Montauk area that have more education, have more experience at fly fishing, experience at business management, and are completely capable, and highly qualified of running a fly shop, more than what I can say of some of the large scale fly shop employees in larger cities. Food for thought.

Better drum hole than a trout area......

Let's face it, most of us on this site are not the one's who need the lecture on litter on the waterways. It's a select few, no matter what their background, age, ethnicity, hometown, education, etc, that need a friendly reminder from time to time that the rivers are a privilege and a vital, fragile resource, not just a given right. Just hope future generations, and future visitors to the rivers become more aware of and more respectful of their natural resources in this state.

Note to all floaters: Pick up your shoes and beer cans after your canoe tips. Tired of picking up after you. Your mom does not live here. Tough laws and high fines should be enforced and handed down on MO floating rivers during spring & summer months. Who is in favor of mandatory weekend of cleanups as punishment for leaving or 'accidentally' leaving your trash on the streams?

I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but thought I would write this rant to add my two cents worth: For the majority, the MDC does a decent job at managing our resources and tax/donation dollars. However, A minor adjustments here and there to the existing program would benefit the majority of dedicated trout fishing folk out there. I propose the MDC focus less efforts on stocking the winter lakes and more on the red white and blue trout management stream areas. I will give a few opinions and observations from my experiences to back up this statement. Trout are statistically more likely to survive in a cleaner, purer water source than a city lake that is typically stagnate, with low oxygen levels. Trout will not live beyond winter in the majority of MO ponds. (Mortality /harvest rate is near 100% in city ponds). Trout are more likely to survive and potentially reproduce in cold waters that have clean natural springs supplying and charging the stream. Trout at least have a chance to establish a year round presence in spring fed rivers and streams. Management dollars are more wisely allocated to heavy stocking our select streams. Additional trout fishing opportunities could be created throughout the state by stocking and closer management on more of the natural cold water springs and below springs. (The MDC has a list of little known cold water springs in MO, many of which are not managed for trout populations.) A few winters ago, I witnessed a local kirkwood resident 'illegally' net fish right out of Kirkwood park's lake in Kirkwood MO just hours after it was stocked for the winter three years ago. I'm suspect this happens more than many of us know. Illegal fishing is done mostly by uneducated persons, that have little to no regard for nature, or the environment, or the laws of the community and or society. (side note: If I ever come across this again, I will take photos and report it to a game warden and local police. I have the number now written in my wallet and have a cellphone handy.) Many of the fish go belly up once the ice freezes, temps rise, and or the oxygen levels, and or chemical runoff from the streets and lawns kill. Why even waste money and or resources stocking in these conditions? Solution: Possibly less stocking $ in the winter ponds and more illegal poaching patrol watches by local police in these areas during very early mornings and late evenings? I realize not all are able to obtain access to the rivers or travel long distances for their fishing experience. I would like to see more spring fed streams considered for trout management in MO that would allow for more trout fishing opportunities. Food for thought: Foreign languages, music, art etc are a K-12 education requirement why shouldn't ecology?

Nicely put. just look at Lake of the Ozarks and the ecological mess that it has become...... In the 60's there were just a handful of resorts, all mostly 2 story family vacation are less. Small cabins were under 2000 sq. ft. Now multistory condos scattered 4 and five deep up the hillside, hotels, mega docks, McMansions etc line the shoreline like it's the next Vegas strip. People now even buy and build on top of bluffs, which were once considered unbuildable. It's the law of the degradation of the commons. Everyone has ties to it, but its nearly impossible to prevent further ecological disaster without drastic measures....It's becoming a great lake for those who have to have the biggest boat and biggest house, car etc...... but to the outdoors person, at this rate it can only seem to get worse.

Sorry jim if i have offended you, I realize they are old threads, but just adding my two cent's worth on more recent observations.

SOLD- Thank you for your interest.

Ever try smashing the barb on a fly with a good needle nosed pliers or vice?

Banning treble hooks on Blue Ribbon areas is a no brainer. Treble hooks have been proven to be more stressful and have a high mortality rate on fish especially in catch and release situations. People that argue otherwise are always going to use treble hooks, or were raised using them to produce a bounty of harvest for the dinner table. Use of a single hook increases the odds of the fish escaping, therefore assists the fish population to have a higher survival rate. Working with landowners whose property feeds into feeder streams would keep oxygen levels up, and sediment levels down in streams and rivers. Polluted water is also a big player in fish habitat and the ecosystem. Boulders in smaller streams would be effective short term solutions, however expensive and maintaining may be another issue. Education and an open mind is critical to the future of our stream and riverways. Look to the western states and their regulations on sport fishing for proven examples and ideas that work, and fish populations that thrive on minimal state and federal budgets.

All one can do is vote, keep active stream management programs under direct leadership of biologist, botanist, wildlife specialist, etc, and play an active role on clean up teams. Education and communication with the public is also a vital role in preventing further stream degradation.

Game theft should not be tolerated at any level. It's taxpayers & the environment they are stealing from at the cost of future generations. Prosecution sentences should not be reduced in a court of law to those of small monetary fines or warnings. Put thieves to work cleaning litter up off the highways or cleaning up litter in our parks. Lord knows there's plenty of it.

Asian carp and invasive non-native species are a prime example of why imported goods and our ports need to have more thorough inspections & regulations. Laws and regulations preventing non-native species introduction should be strengthened and criminal punishment to the extent of biological terrorism should be considered. Non-native species imports should be selectively outlawed on a case by case basis. When will we learn as a society to prevent further degradation of our natural resources & wildlife?

Just a thought.... If you reel in 25 fish in one outing, are you doing anyone else a favor or just creating higher fishing pressure levels? In the state of MO, with most trout being in existence only due to stocking our waters, catching a limit should be considered even with catch and release at some point.

FYI to all. Lane spring is not stocked by any agency or conservation dept at this time or any time of the year. It is US forest service ground and is managed as a pre-settler era park. No non native mo fish are introduced to the stream at the park. The only trout in lane spring are those that are decendants from stocking during early pioneer days. Very few if any trout remain in this stream as a direct result of this non-stock management practice enacted by the US forest service and MDC. Of all the small streams in MO, it is a shame these waters are not re-considered for regular trout stocking.