Gary Lange

I thought this was the discussion stage which I see as the first stage or am I wrong. I just figure you need to talk about something first before anything can be decided and then act on or submit those suggestions. What I see the Chief started was a discussion to obtain input and promote dialog on the subject.

That sounds good Wayne. Let me know what you find out. Be nice if we could get a good turnout and some real dialog.

I think it was discussed a while back that we would have a meeting down this way and discuss a Southern Mo. Smallmouth Alliance. When and where is this going to take place? Like to get it up in the limelight so folks can plan for it. I believe they talked about Springfield at the Conservation Center and also a similar place in Joplin.

I spent 27+ years carrying a gun as a Railroad cop in Chicago. Working alone most of the time. I could get a CCL very easy but resist it because of having done it for so long. The crust of this thread is Illegal Gigging and to make a voice at the MDC and be heard is to have proof via pictures of Gigged Smallmouths. Without this it is just supposition and they are not going to place much credit on that at all. I have not waded any of the Streams down this way since I moved here in July 2005 so I am not familiar with any of this. I do have a good friend that Giggs and I asked him and his statement was that Gigging Season is for Suckers and that he does not gig Smallmouths and does not condone it. If you get proof then write a letter and send it to the MDC. You are not going to get a time honored sport such as this banned anyway so try for more education and enforcement. They need to be aware that it is happening and how much and how often.

You just end up in jail for the confrontation. Just take down the boat numbers and ignore them your life should be worth more then ending up in jail because you shot some drunk on the river.

I am sure that some of the Giggers don't care what they get as long as it swims they figure it is fair game. We have a few bad apples in the conventional fishing world so I am not surprised that we would have a few in the Gigging world also. They may even be the same persons. Some people just could care less about the future or the environment and see it as it is there's and they are going to take all they want. Just like we try to police our own conventional Spin fisherman and fly fisherman by education I am sure that there are some Giggers that do only take Suckers and that are honest and straight forward in there sport. It is these people that need to police there sport and educate the ones that would take any and all. If we as conventional fisherman try to do it then the response is going to be "clean your own camp up before coming into ours". The fact is they would be right and I think we still have to educate a lot of our own anglers about conservation and making a future for our kids to enjoy.

I ran a search for Missouri Gigging Forums and actually found some up in the Central part of the state and they talked about getting out about two times a week and getting a bunch of suckers and how much fun they were having. http://www.shomeoutdoors.com/forums/viewthread.php?tid=10597#pid118203 http://www.catfish1.com/forums/showthread.php?98715-Gigging-Every-throw-with-his-spear-this-guy-hits-a-sucker-fish It appears to be a time honored tradition here in the Ozarks and I am wondering if the Smallmouths getting gigged is more suspected happening then fact. They just seem to talk about Suckers getting gigged. I am sure they wouldn't post that they gigged Smallmouths also but I wonder if this is just blown all out of proportion.

I used to wade the rivers in Northern Illinois South and West of Chicago. In the winter I would hit the Water Treatment Plants and fish down stream from the discharges as the warm water brought baitfish and they were followed by the Smallmouths. One foot could be in 55-60 degree water while the other was in 30 degree water. A minnow on a Slitshot rig worked very well and so did a small Crappie jig with a Pearl Twister Tail.

Welcome to this fine area. I have been on both of those Arkansas Lakes you mentioned as I have friends that live down in Malvern, Ar. I go down for Smokin In The Cove in Sept. also. It is a nice area for sure.

Welcome Ron! I used to fish Bull Shoals out of the Lakeview Ramp. I had an Aunt that lived in Leisure Hills retirement community and would of course visit her a couple times a year. I lived in Bolingbrook, Illinois before moving to Nixa, Mo. I wonder if they still get Walleyes working a Rapala on a deep rig over the trees by Promise Point.

My Goal for 2010 is to get out on the lake more and become a better Table Rock fisherman. I also need to start taking better care of myself and knock of a whole bunch of pounds. I guess I should fish more and eat less.

You guys who didn't come out missed having a great time. Sometimes you need to forgo the fishing part and come for the conversation. You can always learn something by talking to other with similar interests. The fact is the fishing part turned out to be pretty good and the day was beautiful and we had tons of great food. Next year come to see great friends and talk about your favorite sport and it just might be a great day to fish on top of it. If it isn't then it is not wasted because you got to talk to others and gained insight and knowledge.

We had a survey of sorts going on one year in Illinois that was a voluntary thing. It involved signing up to participate and you would receive a booklet and each time you went out fishing you would record the days information in the book. If I remember it had the date the air temp, water temp, river or stream, number of fish, size and if you kept any or released them. When the booklet was full you sent it in and they would send out another.

The Ball is in motion and things will change with time. Matt I am pleased to here of the new look of the web site and the addition of the forum it is a positive move toward more members and increased funds for conservation and education. Looking forward to having a meeting and seeing who shows up and what can be worked out.

Well boys in this case it was necessary as the River was flooding above the Log Dam more then a Log Jam and erosion was destroying the river banks and washing more trees and debree into the River. This section was very narrow and needed to have better flow dynamics then it was getting so even if you think it wasn't right it helped the river flow and prevented erosion along the shoreline. Also stopping someone from enjoying there sport is not right either as those with the Jetboats have as much right to enjoy the river as the next guy. They could be a big alley of ours especially if they enjoy fishing for Smallmouths.

I like the way your thinking Chief! Perhaps starting a Southwestern Missouri Smallmouth Alliance Chapter would make sense. Get it going and get some meetings set up and lets hear what the members want. I have not waded any of the streams down this way because I am a whole lot Snake Shy. I can't speak for what the Streams need because I have no knowledge but I am sure I can add some knowledge to the meetings. The more members we attract the more we have to spend on Stream improvements and such as well as having cleanups on these streams and providing something to eat for those that come out. We did a log jam removal on the Kishwaukee River in Illinois and attracted about 6 College guys and gals that came out and worked on it for credit for classes in conservation they were taking. They worked hard and had a ball doing it and trust me these girls looked good in waders too. Also the Bass Pro Shops Spring Fishing Show could be a venue for us to talk about the organization and look for new members. There is a lot that the present MSA can do also. They need to update the Website with information on what they have done in the way of Conservation and Education and set up a forum for member access only so that communication lines can be opened. Group outing are good as it gets members talking and voicing there opinions on what may improve Smallmouth Habitat and Fishing for future generations. These are just a few things that can be done I am sure others have ideas also.

The main thing that we can do is make our voice be heard. If we say or do nothing then they figure that we could care less what they do and they will do nothing or do something that we don't like. Having a meeting with the MDC and voicing our views through a spokesman is the right thing to do. We could also draft a letter that everyone would agree on changes that we think will work and send it to the MDC for consideration.

If the regs did get changed then you could wait a while and see how they are going to work. If you take it one stream at a time then go on to another stream or river and do some studies and look at that. It is always a possibility for you to do your own studies in a limited capacity to get an idea of what size Smallies are in a body of water or is other species exist such as Spots. You work with MDC and assist them as we all know they can't do it all.

Streams would benefit from tougher regulations if they can be enforced. The regs are worthless if they are not enforceable and that takes work from everyone.

It seems to me that I heard or read on OAF that Smallmouths used to be just down near the dam but now they have been found up the James River Arm. This being true would indicate they are expanding on Table Rock which means they could be expanding on the Missouri Streams also. I don't know this for sure but seems like I read it once on here.

I like the idea of a Statewide size limit of say 15" and Sections of some rivers or streams designated as Trophy Catch and Release only water. I also believe that the public in general could be educated on the importance of conservation and catch and release. I look at the Map of Rivers and wonder if things could be made simpler by just saying no possession between March 1st and May 22nd for all Rivers and Streams East of the Mississippi River and South of the Missouri River or for all Missouri Rivers and Streams if the section North has some Smallmouths and could use some bolstering.

I am wondering also if the number of anglers that actually take a few or any for the table has fallen over the years. The angler gets older and sees that taking Crappie or Bluegills is better and they taste better also. He enjoys the catching more then the eating and would like to preserve the thrill of catching a big Smallmouth for his Grandkids. I think the younger fisherman want to bring some home to show that they are successful as fisherman and as they grow older they realize that they don't need to do that anymore so they turn to catch and release.

It is something to think about anyway. I remember reading some reports about the Smallmouth population taking over on Kentucky Lake. This is interesting if true because for years it was a well know Largemouth Res. and the influx of Smallmouth or expansion of there range could only mean that water is getting colder or that they are being pushed out of other habitat and taking over the gravel points and sections of this well known lake.

What about this Global Warming thing. Is it reasonable to surmise that the rivers and streams that now have Smallmouths in abundance with fewer Spotted Bass will become warmer and give the Spots more range. In other words will Global Warming if it really exists warm our rivers and streams making them unsuitable for cold water loving Smallmouths? If this does happen will the Spots take over this warmer water and push the Smallmouths further North?

Hey Rob! This is Gary L from fastbass and I believe you are on that site also. Didn't know you were from Springfield, Mo. as I live in Nixa. You get around don't you. This is a great site for sure stop by next time you're in town.