John Smoot

The night crawler is really hard to beat. 2 things I do additionally. 1. Use the circle hooks, like size 10. Lilley sells them out of his bait shop. They work ridiculusly well. You hardly ever miss a strike, and, 99% of the hooksets will be in one of the corners of their mouth. No swallowed hooks means you can release the ones you don't want unharmed. The other hooks using a nightcrawler are notorious for gut-hooking. 2. Inject the nightcrawler with a little shot of air. You can get these "worm blowers" at Lilley's also. This keeps the bait off the bottom and in front of the trout. Have fun!!

Zach, I know where some of them are...Starting at just below Fall Creek, and I assume all the way down, they hide under the docks during the days. I've caught many 20+" browns from under these docks during the day. Funny as this may seem, I've actually started too early in the morning, and they simply are not there. But, the sun gets up and they return. Now, all of these observations I'm referring to were summer months. Things could change in other seasons. I bet that many are also in against the deeper banks under the trees and misc. vegetation and logs. But, I know that the docks hold 'em.

Man, what a hog!!! Seth, you gotta be right on! It looked like it may of been too fat to give much of a fight. I bet the guy caught it on some kind of gut bait....chicken liver maybe?

Gary, You simply cannot go wrong with Lilley's!! Good choice!

Hmmm. Sorry, but this sounds alot like someone who got caught speeding. Pay the fine. Slow down. I wish there were more agents. And I wish they'd write tickets for every single violation, regardless of the hat a person is wearing. We share the resourse. We have to follow the rules. If we don't, it means we're cheating...everyone else who does follow the rules. I can understand being upset...but think about who you should be mad at. And good luck tomorrow!

Phil, I do not want to have to worry about my son wading...and, I think you can fly fish out of a bass boat great. Just don't hook your partner in the ear with a fly! At what minimum flow do you need to be able to take a bass boat all the way to the cable? And, have you tried zonkers or white woolys on the fly rod...or is all the action with the spin outfit and 1/8th oz jigs? I want him to catch fish, but, I want him to give the fly rod a workout. Man, if you could get them to take zonkers near the surface slowly stripping...wow!!! That would be so cool to a first timer! And an old timer! I was looking to plan my trip about 3/5 - 3/8 (he's got spring break that week), but I wanted to look at the weather. I was on your website and it looks as if you've got alot of openings so far. I really wanted to stay at Lilley's...should I make reservations now, or wait until I can get a warm fuzzy from the weather forecast?

Phil's Marketing Department must be out of his control?!? Whatever...sounds like everyone's gonna need some circle hooks in size 10 and 12. Phil, give the whole Marketing Department a raise. Tell your wife I suggested it...

After looking at the flows, I see quite a range...like from less than 2000 cfs to way past 10000 cfs. My question is: At what point is wading, being able to fish the rebar, guantlet, etc., a real viable option, and, at what point is it reasonably a 'fish from boat only' option? I'm bringing my 16 year old son down in a week or so, and I'd really like to get some wading time in. This trip is really an intro to fly fishing, and wading is the norm. I have a bass boat, and rather than not being able to fish at all, I'll likely drag it down and use it, but, I've seen Taney at all levels and I do not want to bang it up. And I can show him how fly fishing from the boat is good (I like it)...just not the norm. So, at what flows would the decent wade fishing be? And, at what flows are the good (safe) boat fishing? Thanks, guys!

Sure sounds like a whole bunch of work for just a little $$$. Unless I thought I could load the boat with otter...nah. But, it is fun...kinda like runnin' trot lines.

I have a largemouth mounted that I caught down around Rockaway in 1987. It was like 8 lbs. I caught a couple others in that range. You aren't just kiddin about the big bass in Taney.

Bill, Sounds like there are some new traps out there...never heard of the 11 double jaw, but I haven't trapped for about 28 years. I always favored the old #2 double springs for coons. It sounds like the double jaw has some advantages that are valuable. You are definitely right about the time involved in making a drowning water set, but, it only takes a few good sets to keep you in business. 200 SETS?!?!? That sounds like a whole bunch of work! BTW, isn't there a limit on number of traps out for an individual? I thought it used to be like 20 or 25 traps, but I grew up in Kansas. And my brother and I had to check and reset our traps before school...we usually were running about 20 total between us. Are any of the pelts worth much?

Journeyman has some good info. Here's my take: I like to find a pre-existing hole, crawdad holes are great. The hole is ideally just above the waters edge. Dig out the entrance to the hole so that the trap will be completely submerged and right at the opening of the hole, and, set flat (or mostly). You do not have to worry about trying to conceal the trap if it is under water. The water also eliminates any scenting issues that will keep the wily mink out of your trap. The optimum river bank to make this set is steep...30-45 degrees or so, and preferrably slick mud or clay. With a this steep bank, you do not have to worry about the dogs or house cats getting in the trap...but the coons and mink will have no problem. Use a stick (NOT YOUR HAND...Scent) to place a sardine up in the hole a ways. Sprinkle some of the sardine oil around the hole on dry land. I like to tie a trap wire off a stump, root, something, and this is used as an anchor line. Then use a weight...an old window weight is perfect, or a 10 lb rock...and tie this off to the trap, also. The trick is to set the trap and pre-set the weight so that when critter gets in the trap, he'll give it some jerks, or even try to swim away. When he does, the pre-set weight will dislodge, roll into deeper water, and take him under. When you check the trap the next day, all you need to do is to go to the anchor wire you tied to the stump and 'reel him in'. If you don't do a weight, a raccoon sometimes will chew their leg off. If you could be sure that mink were the only thing to get in it, the trap has sufficient weight to drown them, most of the time. A mink will also sacrifice a foot for freedom. The pre-set weight makes this the ultimate set. What's nice about this set is that you can catch one, and the next day re-set the same spot, as the critter didn't even tear up the joint, because 99% of the time, their first move is to deep water...and you know what happens next. Simply re-set and re-bait (if necessary). You only need about 1 or 2 of these sets per mile of river (both sides) and you have got the place covered...the sets are that effective. Oh, almost forgot...If you see that ultimate 45 degree bank, and there are no pre-existing holes...make one. I used to like to use a shortened oar handle...perfect size and you could really ram it in. It makes perfect holes. Just angle the hole UP slightly...like 10-30 degrees. Makes me wish for the old days just talking about it... Good luck!

I didn't really want to admit it, but yeah, I've eaten alot of coon, muskrat, and (don't laugh) beaver. Believe it or not, some really good eatin'! Muskrat was like squirrel, but not as tough. Racoon was like beef when BBQd in a pot, and beaver was like beef brisket. We got so many coons when we were young, we got picky about the ones we ate. And, we gave away lot to others that liked them. I would not touch a possum. And, mink are in the weasel family, same as a skunk, and they have the musk glands. They stink, although not as bad as skunk...but what is?

My brother and I used to make a fair amount of money back in the mid-70s. Coons were our main quarry, but you can't help but get possums along with coons. I also got some beaver, mink, muskrats, and a couple of foxes...1 gray 1 red. I wish everybody would grab a few #2 double springs and get after the coons...we'd probably have more quail again. I see lots of mink at Taney. Do you know hw to do a 'mink hole water set'? Those little guys can be kinda slippery. Use some sardines for bait. Every coon and mink in the county will find your sets.

Agee! I've seen many fish played completely out. You don't have to do it that way. If it's a true hog like the 1 in the pic, ask someone to help and net him fast (relative term). Keeps the fish alive. If I'm in a position where I see someone who's likely new to this, simply ask him if he'd like some help. Seems neighborly enough to me. Oh, yeah...I carry a C&R net that's rubber coated...more $$$ but easy on the fish. Kinda sad another big momma headed for the frying pan, especially when the 12 inchers are every bit as good eatin'.

A C&R area can be modeled after a sucessful 1 that already exists. Say, the San Juan in northern New Mexico. The trout will not over-populate. There will not be dead fish floating everywhere. Some fish will die due to mishandling...and the predator/scavengers will eat them. So, even if you accidently kill 1 in the C&R area, you cannot take it out...no exceptions. Don't like that, fish somewhere besides C&R. That last statement in the previous paragraph summarizes why a C&R ultimately works...if you have designs on keeping a trout, you simply will not fish in C&R. The people who do not wish to keep a trout will be the only fishermen fishing in the C&R. And as arrogant as this sounds, that group is largely made up of people who know how not to kill a trout while catching and releasing. That is why a C&R works so well. I really don't want to sound condescending or arrogant, but, I don't think I have ever killed a trout using a fly rod. Seriously. In over 12 years and probably way over a thousand caught and released, I have never released a trout that I would of even suspected might die. But, I don't let them flop on the rocks. I don't pick them up and squeeze them like a tube of toothpaste (worse yet with a rag!). I only use a net on fish approaching 20 inches or more...the rest are simply released by using my fingers or, 'tweezers' attached to my fly vest, to grip the fly and twist/pull it loose. I do crimp all of my barbs (they don't tend to get stuck in things like the net, your hat, clothing). I do not hold them out of the water hardly at all, unless a photo is wanted, and then just for a couple of seconds. I do not play them until they're ready to simply float belly up. It's just a mindset: from the time I feel "I've won the battle" and will get them to hand, my primary concern is to NOT HARM THE FISH. It's really not difficult. And, my experience tells me that this will be the type of person fishing in a C&R area, and almost exclusively. A couple of issues I can see coming up is 1. what about the occasional other very desirable species (walleye) that a person can hook in the C&R...keep it, it ain't a trout! And, issue 2. what if you've just landed the potential state record? Hmmm. Tougher answer here. Any ideas?

Leonard, Please don't take it that I was directing some sort of attitude at you...I wasn't and don't intend that. I simply feel that the resource needs extra protection because of the situation, in general...shallow water, visual ability of clear water, etc. And hey, you like to eat trout, and you get one that's legal, and especially wouldn't likely make it anyhow, go for it. I don't judge anyone on this, indeed they are within the law to do so. And, if I got a walleye anywhere on Taney (yep, even in the outlet) that dude would end up on my plate. What time of year did you get the 'eye, and what'd you get him on, and what was the water conditions at the time. I've always thought that Taney should hold some good 'eyes.

I'm with Wayne, here. I don't think that the trout up near the dam, especially in the outlets, should be harvested. They are just too vulnerable at certain times of the year. I'd vote for "Catch and Release Only" for the first mile or so...down to about the MDC boat ramp. Alot of other fisheries have such a rule. The San Juan in NM has a Catch and Release at the top of their headwaters. I think the Green River in Utah also has a similar rule. Like I said, the trout are too vulnerable and, IMO, too valuable to simply throw in the skillet.

Amen to that! And don't forget, alot...if not over 50%....of the trout hooked in the outlets are snagged! I know there are people who simply make a day of snagging/hooking trout in outlets. That does the fish no good, and, some people will take the trout home...a great trophy! They can say they caught him on a hook...likely in the rear portion of the body. So, what's the job of our MDC in situations like this? First and foremost it's to PROTECT THE RESOURCE!!! Remember, the fish belong to the taxpayers of this state...and laws need to be in place, and ENFORCED, that someitmes are restrictive to us all to accomplish directive #1. I mean, the 'Trophy Rules, All Artificial, above Fall Creek', is just that type of law...restictive, and I think we'd all agree that this is a good thing. Now this law has created a nice little trophy fishery, but, oh ohh!!! There are people taking advantage of the trophy fishery created by the restrictive laws!! SO, what to do? More laws (no fishing in the outlets) and more enforcement. And once again, we'll see it will be a good thing. Stay on them, Phil. I'm with you and so is Brett Rader. Anyone else?

Couldn't agree with you more, loo10. Maybe people don't realize the impact a rag has of removing the slime that protects the trout, or squeezing them like a tube of toothpaste...hmmm. I saw a young guy, like 24 probably, in early October, hook a nice rainbow just above rebar, then play it in the deep pool on the south side...all done well, then simply beach it on the friggin' rocks! It was a 24" bow (I measured him) and it was floppin' all its weight on the rocks...several times. I mentioned something to the guy. He got it back into the water and it promptly went belly up near the bottom. I stated that we'd probably lost that one. He said something to the effect that it'd be alright. He waded out and kind of pushed it with his foot. I'm sure it's dead. And the way the guy fished and talked, I'm sure he's a regular...maybe he just doesn't know better. Phil, maybe you could kinda get the word out. On those big fish, either leave them in the water, or lift them out like a cradle with wet hands. And get them back in quick. I'm sure the mortality on fish handled this way is very low.

Seth, I gotta ask...did you let that hog go? Yeah, I've seen the bruisers near the fish cleaning stations. I've often thought about riggin' a piece of t-shirt around a hook for a 'guts fly'. But, then I've always thougth unless I has some 20 lb test on, they'd just break me off on their way out to the deeper water. I kinda wish that the guts weren't dumped back in the lake the way they are...but I believe that that is the most eco way to handle guts. Oh, yeah. I've caught several big browns at Taneycomo. Probably 20 above 20". The largest was the pic Phil posted on this sight and at OzarkAnglers.com. He was probably 10-12 lbs. The biggest rainbow I've caught at Taney was a 20-incher I caught September 29, 2004. I've caught many larger rainbows on the San Juan in New Mexico. I have a pic of one I caught 4 years ago that was 27" and a fat dog. Probably 8 lbs. I still enjoy catching alot of fish. About the 3rd day, I may get more picky and try to pick off the big boys. So, many rainbows between 12" and 18".

Phil, I really think if you tied some flies that resemble fish guts...a guts fly?...you could target those big gut slurpers that hang around the docks. I don't think you can legally use actual trout guts. Course, that may not be your idea of sport...

You mean people are actually removing these browns from the lake?!!? To do what with them? Eat them? I find it hard to justify removing a large trout form the lake period. Take a photo and have a replica made. And if you want good table fare, try some walleye or buy some salmon at the store. Please... Here's a big brown I caught early in October below rebar. It took a smallish natural bunny leech. Landed him in about 20 minutes using 7X tippet. I didn't think that would happen when he hit, as the horn had just sounded and I though for sure he'd use that to his advantage and simply strip me or break me off. I got him into some shallower water and my buddy Marc netted him. And, I released him. Hmm. I'm having a hard time getting the pic to attach. So, the photo is actually on the OzarkAnglers.com website. It's the "Jim Smoot" photo. Phil, can you get it here moved here?

My last time at Taney (1st week of October), I caught the largest majority of fish on various zebra midge patterns. The 2 best were the 'Ugly', tied by a guide at Rivers Run (I think), which is a gold bead head, green body, some red just below the head, and wrapped in gold wire, and a black bead head with a silver head and silver wire wrap. I caught fish with them both drifting from the boat and wading. I did not catch a single brown on a midge, though.