DainW

I didn't mean for this thread to start any bad blood. I can tell you why I got into fly fishing, because the enjoyment in fishing for me has always been the fishing part. I don't care to eat fish really, and to me catching trout with bait got to the point where it was too easy, almost felt like cheating. I think fly fishing for the most part is more difficult, requires a little more focus, and for the angler to be more in tune with what's going on in the stream than bait fishing does. But that's just what the way I like to fish. If you don't like to fish like that and prefer to fish differently then more power to you. All I care is that you're following the posted regulations. As for the discussion about what the more natural way of presenting a lure or bait to a fish is, 90% of the trout in a stream are going to feeding on items that drift by them in the current. For a trout that has become large enough to be piscivourous, for the most part the fish they're foraging on won't be moving across or upstream, at least when they're being pursued by a predator. When a bait fish is fleeing from a larger fish, their mode of escape will always be downstream. Think about it, if you were a small fish and were trying to escape a predator, why would you flee across or upstream and have to fight the current? Thats not to say that a down and across presentation can't be successful, obviously it is or people wouldn't fish that way. I'm just saying that when you get a bite on a down and across presentation using a crankbait, spinner, or even a streamer, it's more likely that you're getting a reaction bite, rather than a trout mistaking your bait for something natural.

I fished below the park too. Conservation park lot was full Saturday afternoon went down to the cemetery area and fished downstream a little, but wasn't sure if we were on private land or not.

No offense taken, in fact that's probably what I would have said if I were responding to this post lol. I was probably a little blunt in my response. When I started out fly fishing I almost exclusively used flouro tippet, but switched over to mono because of cost and didn't really think it made that much of a difference, but I think it's time to switch back, especially if I'm going to be fishing to highly pressured fish

I fished from bottom of zone II to the hatchery and there were literally people everywhere.

I'm not world's best fly fisherman or anything like that, but I feel like at this point in the game, I've got a fairly good idea of when I'm getting a drag free drift and when I'm not. I think flouro vs mono could be one of the issues though. I've been using mono a lot lately, mainly just because of the cost

Yeah I honestly had to stop fishing early on saturday, it was too frustrating. Not only were there a lot of people fishing, but just a lot of people in the park in general, be it with their families hiking or whatever. Not that I blame them, but I don't care to fish around people like that. Don't get me wrong I realize finding any amount of solitude on a trout stream in the midwest is going to be a tall order, let alone a trout park when it's 70 degrees outside, but saturday was ridiculous. Not only did you have to deal with people having zero etiquette whatsoever when it comes to respecting somebody's spot, you also have to we weary not to put your back cast into an innocent bystander's face. Not my cup of tea that's for sure.... And also I don't understand the rationale behind closing zone III during the C&R season. Do they do that at the other 3 trout parks as well? Is it a safety issue primarily? Seems like that would really ease the crowding situation quite a bit.

So I made second trip to roaring river state park this past weekend. The first trip was about a month ago, the first weekend after the flood, and fishing was great. When I got to the river on friday, the water was much clearer, to the point where you could come up on slower moving pools and literally see fish everywhere. Getting them to bite was a different story. Friday the fishing was great though. Fish seemed to be biting well everywhere, except in the slower pools, where I assume the trout are a little spookier just because they're more vulnerable in that type of water. Anyway, caught a bunch of fish on Friday and woke up saturday expecting to do the same thing, and boy was I wrong. Still caught a few fish, but it was nothing like Friday, and it even got frustrating because you could see fish actually moving away from your flies as you they drifted towards them. I tried lots of different flies too, and just never had all that much luck. The park was crazy crowded on Saturday too, which is understandable because the weather was so nice. So my guess is that the fish probably started to wise up a little bit after friday. Anyways, I don't have much experience fishing trout parks and if they're that busy during C&R season, I'd hate to see what they look like during the rest of year. But it does raise a few questions in my mind, what does everyone here do to get bites when the trout get picky like that? There were people there doing a lot better than myself, so it's not like it was just one of those days. I couldn't really see much of a hatch coming off, so I'm assuming it wasn't necessarily a fly choice issue. I was using 5x tippet, do I need to go smaller at RR state park? Also, I saw a lot of fish holding in the upper 3rd of the water column, which I've never seen before. Is this pretty typical at trout parks? Seemed a little strange to me as I always thought they held closer to the bottom.

Grizzly thanks for the reply. I've fished the white and the norfork before and like both of those rivers quite a bit, As far as trophy browns go, White river is probably the best spot in the country. That being said, we're planning on hitting NFOW really because we like to see new water, with the added bonus of fishing for wild rainbows. We have gone ahead and hired a guide and I would think that the White or Norfork will probably be backup plans in case NFOW is blown out during the time we're there. Al, thanks for the info on the snakes. I think my biggest fear is probably from not being able to identify which species is which. I think it behooves me to go out and do some research on identifying snakes while out on the river. FWIW when I was in high school my dad and I took a float trip on the caddo river and our guide told us a story about his son being bitten by a cottonmouth and almost dying. I think that's also probably inspired a lot of my fear of snakes on the river.

Yeah I've heard a lot of good things about crane creek. I've also heard some not so good things about Crane Creek, like the snakes. Crane Creek is on the list of places to hit for sure, but I almost want to fish that in the winter time. Not a fan of snakes personally

Yes the Palomar knot is the knot I have the most confidence in. The only drawback like i said is that it can be a little tougher to tie on smaller flies.

Thank you again to everyone that has contributed to this thread. The input is greatly appreciated. I've heard a lot about the eleven point river as well, and I knew before posting this that Brian Sloss came highly recommended. For this trip, I think rather than hire a guide on both rivers or try to fish both rivers in two days, I'll probably hire a guide on the NFOW for one day and then rent a kayak from Justin and float it the next day. Reason being that the NFOW has just been on the list a little longer and there's something about a river that hasn't stocked a rainbow since the 60's that really appeals to me, although from what I understand the eleven point has a fairly sizable wild trout population as well and I'm definitely planning on making a trip there one day as well.

Ok thanks Justin I'll definitely be in touch with you as it gets closer to that time. DaddyO, I'm actually from OKC. I attended my first TU Meeting last night with the 89er chapter and am definitely going to join. Besides all the great things they do from a conservation standpoint, it also seems like a great way to meet some people that have a lot more fly fishing knowledge and experience than myself. We saw a presentation on the driftless region that has me considering making a trip to Wisconsin now. I was actually thinking about making another trip to Roaring River (or two if I can swing it) before the end of C&R season and the weekend of the 23rd is looking like a possibility to make that happen. If I do end up making the trip, I'll PM you as I'd love to meet some fellow okies and OAF forum members.

Yeah I think prince nymphs in larger sizes (the largest I've ever seen is a 10 I think), can be a pretty good stone fly imitation. I was throwing big prince on the piedra river last summer which has a pretty healthy population of stoneflies, and it was really effective as the dropper on a dry/dropper rig. That being said I prefer a Pat's or a 20 incher if I'm trying to imitate stoneflies. I usually fish a prince when I'm trying to imitate caddis (pupae or larva I'm not an entomologist and am unable to keep that straight, would've just said nymph but didn't want to sound like a noob) in sizes 14-18. I especially like the psycho prince variation when I'm fishing a caddis hatch. I do agree with both wrench and jtram though. The prince is a great generalist pattern that can be used to imitate mayfly, caddisfly, and stonefly nymphs depending on what size you're fishing them and under what conditions. I even know some guys here in Oklahoma that fish big prince nymphs for smallmouth bass in the summertime. I guess they make a pretty good dragonfly nymph imitation as well.

Justin, The streamside guiding sounds like that would definitely be an option and I've already been considering Sunburst for a canoe rental. Quick question for you, did I read that correctly on your site that you guys rent personal pontoons for the NFOW? That sounds like it would be a nice alternative to a canoe as it would be easier to fish out of than a canoe, although I have no experience with either. If so, are these more or less limited by flows on the river? I mean is it more dangerous to be out in a personal pontoon than a canoe at higher flows?

Ok thanks for the advice Mic. You're saying fish either the NFOW or 11 point, in two days, not both. That makes sense to me.

Leader/tippet I've actually been using a seaguar knot. I used to have issues with my leader/tippet connection failing at the surgeon's knot (i was tying double and even triple surgeon's knots). Frustrating because I had lost more than one nice fish due to this knot failing. Since I've learned the seaguar knot, haven't had any more issues with my leader to tippet connection. Check it out, I'd say it might even be an easier tie than a surgeon's knot. Tippet to fly, I really like a palomar knot if I have enough excess tippet to do it and the fly is big enough to run the tippet through the eye twice (on those smaller flies it can be tough to do that even once). If I can't tie a palomar knot, then I like to tie a uni-knot. Not sure why but I've just never been good at tying a clinch knot or improved clinch knot. Never had a properly seated palomar knot fail on me. I also like the uni-knot for tying flies directly to the shank of another fly, you an actually tie on your finger the same way you would a clinch knot.

Ok so in an ideal world, I'd be able to hire a guide for a day on the NFOW and a day on the 11 point. Let's say that I have limited funds though and would only be able to hire a guide on one of those and will have to rent a canoe on the other. Which of those two rivers do you guys think it's more important to hire a guide on, and which one could I probably get away with just renting a canoe? Also, just checked out the forum for the LP and saw some cool pics. What a beautiful spot. I know I might get some flack for this, but what town do you guys typically access that river in?

Thanks for the replies and advice everyone. Exactly what I was looking for. Looks like I'm definitely gonna have to do some research on the Little Piney. As far as the eleven point goes, that river has kind of been on the radar for a while as well, but I just kind of figured that I would need to hire a guide for that one as well. Isn't it bigger water that fishes better from a driftboat? Or can you get by just renting a canoe and floating from hole to hole? I'm sure that question is probably highly contingent on the flows at the time.

So i've been fly fishing for a couple years now, and I've started to develop a routine on my local waters. In the warmer months, let's say May-October, I like to target smallmouth and I try to save my trout fishing for the colder months (with some exceptions). Reason being that I'm not a big fan of combat fishing and the trout waters here in Oklahoma that do fish year round, are usually slammed in the summer, and I prefer the quiet solitude of a smallmouth stream. Anyway being from Oklahoma, with all the recent rains that we've had, my winter time trout fishing plans have had to be altered. With both of my two favorite rivers completely blown out from all the recent flood and TBD as to when they'll be fishable again, I've had to look elsewhere for my trout fishing fix. I've found that the Ozarks region has some fantastic spots and a lot more to offer than just the famous white river tailwater fisheries. I had a great trip to roaring river state park last week and plan on going back before the end of C&R season (turns out it's about the same distance drive time to there for me as it is to my preferred OK river). Anyway, with all that being said, I usually like to plan a big trip around the middle of March and I've been doing a lot of thinking about this year's trip. I'd like to plan a 4 day trip where I can hit several different rivers in the Southern MO/Northern AR region.One of the rivers I definitely want to hit on this trip is the NFOW since I've never been there. Also thinking about hitting the current river blue ribbon section. Fished that last may and loved it, so I'm definitely gonna have to fish it again soon, although I can be persuaded out of that spot for this trip. Anyways does anyone have any suggestions on rivers that I really need to visit, especially that would be fishing well that time of the year? Not really asking for any hot spots or anything, just names of rivers. Half the fun is doing the research myself and then trying to figure out a new river when I get there. The only parameters are: 1. I'd prefer not to fish a trout park during catch and keep season. Just don't want to do the combat fishing thing, although I'm open to fishing below any of the parks. 2. Not really interested in fishing any of the big white river tailwaters, for the same reason as above, plus I've been there before and my guess is we'd still be seeing heavy generation during that time period, which means I'd have to hire a guide. Side note, I am considering hiring a guide for the NFOW so any recommendations on guides here would be great. Let me know what you guys think. Thanks, Dain

Man they were loving that mega worm. It out fished every other fly in my box 3 to 1. Not sure why they love it so much, My guess is that it looks like trout guts from recently cleaned fish.

Finally made the trip this weekend. Really enjoyed myself and thought the park was great. Mostly fished zone I, but definitely want to come back and fish zone II. Caught a bunch of fish, hot fly was the mega worm (thanks Tim for setting me up with that one). Caught my personal best trout to date on saturday. Thanks everyone for the info.

Looks like Saturday would've been a good day to be there. I saw some nice fish pics posted on Tim's facebook page. I also hear what everyone is saying about maximizing the fishing time with my dad. The only thing that stopped me on this one really is that we were trying to plan a 2 or 3 day trip, possibly heading over to fish the Current on Sunday and Monday. Obviously Sunday wasn't going to be fishable anywhere, so that means it would have been a 4 hour drive there and a 4 hour drive back, for a maximum of 8 hours fishing time. Plus traveling back Saturday night or Sunday morning could have been hairy as well. I'm of the opinion that if I'm going to drive 4 hours to fish somewhere, I'd like to have a couple days to really fish it hard. I did get some quality time with my dad in this weekend though and I'm keeping an eye on the forecast and river gauges because I definitely want to make a trip to Roaring River before the end of the C&R season. With both of my home trout waters here in Oklahoma in serious disarray after the weekend floods, I'm going to have to start looking to MO for my wintertime trout fishing.

I think it's a moot point anyway because the weekend forecast has me reconsidering my plans. This weekend's trip will have to be moved to a later date. Looks like I'll just have to hit the Blue River on Thursday and hope for a dry weekend before the end of catch and release season so I can head to roaring river.

Hopefully not. Any idea what they were working on?

Ok great thanks for the heads up.