DainW

Well garage space isn’t an issue now. I’ll have to look into the inflatable yaks. Thanks for the advice.

Joe agree with that 100%. The ability to cover 8-12 miles of water in a day vs. 2 miles of water in a day is a big advantage. The wade fishing thing is really out of necessity more than anything though. Just got married last year and bought a new house a few months ago. The house we were in, the garage was barely big enough to fit both cars let alone a kayak or canoe. Now I’ve got space to store one anyway. Next step would be purchasing a vehicle capable of pulling one around. Probably not hauling a kayak around in my volkswagen. Since I don’t have my own watercraft, if I’m renting from an outfitter, I’m generally going to be limited to the more popular streams that have outfitters serving them and depending on water conditions, I’m also going to be limited to sections of those streams that the outfitters want to put you on. For example, last year I really wanted to float the upper jacks fork in September. I called a couple outfitters and nobody was willing to put me on that stretch. So I decided to just drive up and wade fish it I fished 2 or 3 accesses but at each one would reach a point where I couldn’t really wade any farther, water would be too deep to wade in the stream and nowhere on the bank to walk Had to turn around before we even got far enough from the access or fishing to get good. Plenty of people putting their own boats on the water though Anyway, said all that to say I agree with you basically. Buying a canoe or kayak is just an investment that I haven’t made quite yet

LOL... i waded a section of the osage fork last summer and didn’t realize it at the time but could’ve had a run in with the “Evergreen police.” I realized then that some of the information in that book may be a little out dated and have been a little more cautious since then. I also checked some old posts and that landowner is pretty notorious for running people off. I didn’t have any trouble that day luckily. Al as far as what you recommended that’s more or less what we’ve been doing. Exploited the upper gasconade last summer (same trip) and had some good success. Not so much on the upper jacks fork and big piney but it was later in the year and would’ve been better served In a canoe or kayak. Guess I’m just gonna have to do some homework between now and then.

Thanks for the quick reply Al. It is what it is with timing for the trip. When you drive 5 or 6 hours, it needs to be at least a couple days worth of fishing. I don’t get a lot of time away from work so if I can structure trips around holiday time, it’s always good. I realize memorial weekend is going to be tough on the timing. I wish I lived closer and I could spend more time putting in the work finding a couple some reliable water. If got a couple creeks in NW OK that I know really well and get to fish more often, but it sometimes get boring fishing the same river over and over again. Anyways, if I’m understanding you correctly, it sounds like my best bet is going to be focusing on the headwaters of larger rivers rather than smaller tributaries as those will tend to get hit harder by the locals?

Okay so I’m planning an ozark smallmouth trip for Memorial Day weekend. I know, it’s going to be a crazy weekend since it officially kicks off the float season for the party crowd. But hey you gotta fish when you can get away from work. Anyway I was looking for some advice on a good area to plan to fish? I picked up chuck tryon’s book on the advice of another member (thanks Al), and it’s been a really valuable source of information for me. That being said, it tends to be a lot of raw information, with very little input on how the fishing is at some of the creeks/rivers. I’ve kind of made a game of trying to read between the lines in the way he describes some bodies of water as to what the fishing is like. It’s led me to discover some nice water, like some of the accesses and tributaries on the upper gasconade for example, but I’ve also struck out a few times as well. Not asking for specific spots or even specific rivers necessarily, just a nudge in the right direction, say maybe a particular basin to check out? I know a lot of it is trial and error and that the way it’s supposed to be, but I only get so many opportunities each year to smallmouth fish in Missouri and when it’s a 5-7 hour drive from okc depending on where you’re going, you hope that you don’t strike out too bad. Anyways, if it helps, I will be primarily wade fishing and really just want to get into some fish. Would also like to be away from the crowds if possible. Any suggestions welcome. Thanks, Dain

Just got back into town. Had a good trip but had to primarily fish the park. Rain on Thursday is what killed it for us below the park. Montauk gauge was down to 280 on Thursday morning before the rain started but the inch or so that they got pushed it back over the 700 mark. It fell a lot more slowly after the second rain than Tuesday’s rain. Fished the park Friday morning and did pretty well in the fly fishing area down from the spring. Water was high and off color but mop flies, eggs, and San Juan worms worked pretty well. Tried to wade down from Tan Vat Friday afternoon with flows around 350, seemed somewhat dangerous. Returned to the park Friday evening until the horn and caught a nice caddis hatch. Woke up Saturday and hit the park again. Water was clearing up and fish started biting on bugs a little more. Saw a lot of baetis coming off in the afternoon. Probably could’ve tried tan vat again with flows at 250 or so, but fish were biting in the park so we stayed put. All in all a fun trip. Disappointed we didn’t get to fish the blue ribbon section really but saw some areas in the park I haven’t fished before. Surprised at how much fishable water there is at montauk compared to some of the other parks, like roaring river for example. Crowds weren’t too bad either, for a weekend.

Thanks for the reply Gavin. Just wondering do you think the Akers gauge is a better read than the montauk gauge? I always base off the montauk gauge bc about the furthest down I’ve ever waded from Baptist camp is the confluence with Ashley creek. I know you fish it a lot more than I do so trust your advice on this. Also, are you suggesting maybe I should be fishing further down?

Thanks Bill. Have been watching gauges and weather reports for the Salem area like crazy, studying prior rain events, old fishing reports etc Looks I’ll like just have to wait and see I guess. Most of the rain is predicted for tonight through tomorrow evening. Should have a pretty good idea by Wednesday morning how bad it is. Hoping rainfall stays less than 3 inches (knock on wood). If that’s the case, it shouldn’t blow out too bad (hopefully).

Okay so I’ve got a group of guys heading to Salem to fish the upper current next weekend. Trying to look at stream gauge and predict what this week’s rainfall will do to the river levels. I know it’s probably not an exact science, but based on the last heavy rain the area had in February, 2.5-3 inches of rain over a 2 day period (which is what is predicted for Monday and Tuesday) brought the river up to about 200 CFS on the montauk gauge. No rain predicted for Wednesday and then about a quarter of an inch on Thursday or so. Fishing Friday, Saturday, Sunday. If we do get that much rain and the river is up around 200 CFS on Friday, is it still wadeable/fishable at that flow, of will we have to drive over to mill creek or little piney for better fishing on Friday? If not, anyone have any idea on what the upper limit of flows is for the current before it’s no longer safe to wade? From my past experience fishing the river, about 120 CFS is ideal flows for fishing and anything below 100 is pretty tough. I’ve only fished it a handful of times though. Anyone with some more experience fishing the river have any thoughts? Also, haven’t seen many reports lately, anyone have any idea how it’s been fishing? Thanks, Dain

Seemed a little questionable when driving into Lebanon for lunch we saw a sign that said "Evergreen: Population 28." Didn't seem like a town that size was big enough to warrant a sign, let alone an actual police department.

LOL...For what it's worth, when we got to the access, there was another guy and his wife who were just finishing up that had taken their kayaks upstream and fished back down to the bridge. Apparently they weren't harassed either, so don't know if the landowners were just taking the weekend off or out of town or what. Side note, from chuck's book, I've noticed it's hard to decipher much about any particular access on any particular river. He doesn't usually go into much detail about what the fishing is like there, what type of water to expect etc. Assuming that's by design. He usually just leaves that up to you to figure out, which is part of the fun. If he does go into any detail, I usually take that to mean "fish here." For example that particular access on the OF was chosen bc he said the middle OF was as beautiful as missouri smallmouth water gets and when he got to that access said something like "really pretty water here." He was right about that part lol.

Seemed a little ridiculous at the time to me and my dad and I kind of laughed at it at the time. I went back and read some old posts though and I guess the land is owned by a prominent family from Lebanon and they've been known to shoot at people floating/wading that stretch of river? Probably won't be heading back to that particular access. I did really like the Osage Fork though. Clear, cold water and a beautiful surrounding area. Plus lots of fish.

So I picked up Chuck Tryon's book last summer at the advice of some OAF forum members, and ever since have been wanting to fish the gasconade. Finally made that happen on Saturday. My dad and I used mountain grove as a base of operations and jumped around to several different accesses on the upper gasconade as well as the Osage fork and some smaller tributaries. It made for a long day of driving around and exploring, but it was a good time and we caught a fair number of fish as well as a variety of fish. Since we don't have a boat and were fly fishing, we were confined to the first 15 miles or so of the gasconade around hartville. Caught our best fish, several 14-15 inch smallies in the evening on that river. The Osage fork was probably our favorite, as we caught the most fish and widest variety of fish. Caught smallies, a largemouth, suckers, and several healthy goggleeye on the Osage fork. Only saw the big white sign across the river letting us know that we were on private property after we waded back upstream to the low water bridge after a few hours of fishing. Apparently we were subject to prosecution by "order of the evergreen police dept." Oh well next time we know better. Fortunately nobody gave us any trouble. Had a great time and will definitely be back to see some more of these beautiful rivers. Only got pics of the smallmouth on the gasconade unfortunately.

I fished Durango for a week last summer and had a really good time. San Juan tailwater was fun, but crowded and like netboy said, get ready to fish small midges and light tippet. Not really my cup of tea, but we had a good time. You may be there while run off is still going for a lot of places, but if run off has subsided, I would really recommend the box canyon on the Piedra. Pocketwater filled with 15-18 inch browns that eat nothing but big stoneflies. Can't go wrong with anything in that area though. Wish I could be in Colorado that long.

Thanks for the report sounds like a good day. I fished the spring for the first time a few weeks ago. I and a question about wading downstream at dam 3. I heard the fishing gets really good downstream, but how do you get there? Can walk down the bank opposite the train tracks or is that private?

Hey JD thanks for the advice. We fished it last Monday and Tuesday and it fished great. Gave mark a call and he pretty have us the same suggestions fly wise. all those flies worked to some degree plus anything caddis as there were quite a few of those coming off with the warmer temps. Thought it was a really cool river and was able to fish dam 3, Lassiter, and bayou in two days. Lots of fish, but all were about 14 inches so no pics. Thanks again.

That a Maine Coon?

Eggs and woollies huh? Sounds like my kind of place. I'll make sure and give mark a call.

Thinking about making a trip to the spring river in Arkansas in a couple weeks and from what I've found, there just not a lot of information out there, maybe that's by design I don't know. Think I've got the access figured, if I'm wading stay above dam 3 right? Mainly trying to figure out what flies to throw. Anybody with some experience on this river know what's hatching this time of year? Thanks, Dain than

Made a quick holiday weekend trip up to Missouri from OKC this weekend. Last couple fishing trips had been pretty rough, so we fished roaring river Friday to get our confidence up and then yesterday morning hit crane creek for the first time. Fished the city park up stream and down stream of the bridge by the ball fields. The creek was really low which made things tough. Not much moving water to be found, fish were mostly stacked up in deeper pools. Fishing was tough but did manage to catch a couple including the prettiest trout trout I've ever seen. My guess is it was about ten inches or so, which I counted as a win. Thought about going down to check out lower wire road access but figured it was probably low like the rest of the creek and needed to get back to okc. Definitely a cool little creek and would like to come back when the water is a little higher to check out the lower wire road.

Mitch would you care to explain how you've been "muzzled?" Freedom of speech is a legal concept. It's a right upon which the very concept of our nation is built. Political correctness on the other hand is a social concept that reflects the evolution of societal views on what is considered common decency. Freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom from consequences of speech. For example, if you're the type of person that likes to use the N word in casual conversations, you're likely going to be called a racist. It's no longer politically correct to use that word, but there aren't any legal ramifications for doing so. Until you actually face legal repercussions, or the threat of legal repercussions for something that's come out of your mouth, you aren't being "muzzled." You're being called out. There's a difference. The court of public opinion isn't an actual court.

If I was in your wife's shoes, that would be a pretty frustrating situation honestly and I can empathize with that. It sounds like the people running those companies aren't very confident in their HR procedures if they are worried about a lawsuit from terminating an employee. Unlawful termination suits are a possibility in any business, but as long as the organization has written rules and procedures in place for documenting offenses, as well as clearly communicating what the expectations of that job are, there shouldn't be any reason to fear terminating an incompetent employee.There is no state or federal statute that I'm aware of that says it's illegal to terminate an employee who is a member of a certain ethnicity or gender etc. I'd say that's more of a reflection of ineffective leadership within those organizations as well as a symptom of living in an extremely litigious society, more so than "political correctness" run amok. Political correctness is a pretty vague term anyway and covers a broad swath of territory. On one end of the spectrum you have college students complaining of microagressions and creating "safe spaces" which I think we'd all agree is pretty ridiculous. But on the other end of that spectrum the fact that it's no longer socially acceptable to use the N word in every day conversation (as well as other racial slurs), which I'd think we'd all consider progress. I tend to look at "political correctness" as just being polite, rather than the boogeyman that it's portrayed to be. I would agree with the statement that people in general are more sensitive these days, but I don't really call attribute that to "political correctness" as much as I do an entire generation of parents that failed in raising their children leading to an overall attitude of entitlement in today's society.

Have you done much night fishing down there?

Couple things on this. I consider myself pretty liberal, but this professor's position seems kind of silly. That being said, the author seems to omit some background information that could be relevant to this particular professor coming out with this statement, in order to make her position seem more ludicrous. Here is the quote that makes me a little weary to accept this article at face value: Dean continued to explain why she thinks Canada picked the canoe as a symbol, claiming it has to do with benefits to particular groups—particularly white men— who pushed the canoe. This sort of makes it seem that there was some sort of recent decision that the Canadian government made to choose the canoe as a symbol. Symbol of what? The author also doesn't seem to go into much more detail with professor's supporting logic. I guess they just leave that up to the reader? I dunno, I don't really lose much sleep over what goes on in Canada so don't really care to put the leg work in. As far as the "PC Epidemic" is concerned. Haven't college campuses always been hotbeds for political activity? I mean look back at the 1960s, didn't most of the Vietnam war protests begin on college campuses? College campuses are sort of a political science experiment anyway. I mean you get 30,000 18-22 year olds of varying ethnic and religious backgrounds living in close proximity to one another, chances are you're going to have some activism. That being said, I graduated from Mizzou in 09, which isn't all that long ago and I didn't have any teachers trying to push political correctness down my throat. Of course, I was a business major though. It might be different if you're a sociology or cultural studies major. Thing may have changed a little in the last 7 years though, who knows. Personally though, I think "political correctness" is a dog whistle term. Can someone give me an example of how political correctness has affected their lives? I get it if you're someone running for political office and say, a tape comes out with you bragging about sexually assaulting women or something like that, how you could be adversely affected by political correctness, but for the average joe, I mean it doesn't really affect you. One of the things I love about living in this country is freedom of speech. So if something offensive comes out of my mouth, which happens from time to time, and someone is offended by it, they're just as free to let me know about it as I am to be offensive.

It's a mixture. Tan Vat access downstream to the bluff hole and a little below I usually catch rainbows, but have caught a few nice browns in that stretch as well. Baptist camp seems to be mostly browns for me.