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Everything posted by Phil Lilley
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Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in General Angling Discussion
Alright.... very stupid error on my part. In my hast to get out the door to Springfield, I offered some off-the-mark figures in my last post. I was thinking about it on the drive up and it hit me... I knew something was wrong with $325. 1/4% of our total sales tax paid would be $2284 by my updated calculations... still not sure if I'm doing it right. Can't seem to get my head around it for some reason. Taney gets about 200,000 rainbows from Neosho, the federal hatchery. The rest comes from Shepherd. So it's only partially funded be the feds. I'm going to ask about the $7 price tag for trout. That info is coming way back in the outer reaches of my memory so it could be flawed. -
Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in General Angling Discussion
Table Rock Sales Tax Rev vs Taneycomo - no comparison. Consider Big Cedar Lodge - the taxes on that place alone is more than all the resorts and marinas on Taneycomo. How many people come to Branson to fish for trout? A tiny, tiny percentage. Ask the chamber. They spend alot money promoting Table Rock, attractions and shows, and then they spend alittle money on trout and Taneycomo. They market people who will come to Branson and trout is one of the last draws on their list. Have we tried to move trout up on their list? Sure. But money talks and trout don't draw like shows and SDC. I know what I pay in sales taxes, last 12 months - $103,000. MDC gets .25%, right? That's $325. -
Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in General Angling Discussion
We have sold about $70,000 in fishing licenses and trout stamps in the last 12 months. I heard years ago, may be 10 or more, that it costs the hatchery right at or alittle over $7 per trout to hatch, raise and release. I'm sure the cost is much higher now. -
Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in General Angling Discussion
I apologize for making is sound like I was against urban trout fishing... actually in my short-sightedness, I didn't think about urban trout fishing when I started this thread, I was thinking about Taneycomo only. I simply was trying to divert this issue from another topic, Habitat Improvement on Taney. I wanted to discuss ideas others have on adding habitat below Table Rock Dam and others kept bringing up the question whether money should be spent on "non-native" fisheries at all. So, I started this topic. I believe urban trout fishing is a great thing! It gets people out to fish more often in the winter and it's great for kids. I've always thought trout fishing is perfect for kids cause they are so easy to catch most of the time. Again, sorry for the opening statement. -
Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in General Angling Discussion
Please expound on this concept. You say you know... how? What proof do you have? Truly and honestly, I'm interested. Not being mean-spirited in my asking. Thanks -
Also have to keep in mind we're talking about 8-9 feet during full generation. That's alot of structure.
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Good point. May have to look at creating places during generation where people can fish from the bank. Wouldn't have to ban boats though. Just have to keep in mind the Corp won't let MDC put anything in the lake that would slow down flow creating back pressure on the turbines. Any suggestions?
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Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in General Angling Discussion
Just to make sure you all understand what's going on on Taney, MDC has money from the National Fish & Wildlife Foundation and Bass Pro to add fish habitat in Table Rock and it's watershed as well as Taneycomo. The are in the third of a five year of the project. This money isn't coming from MDC. It is to enhance fishing areas below the dam. Create holes for fish to hold in, wood structure for bugs and to help spread out anglers instead of having them group up in preferred areas like the outlets and rebar. It won't really help the trout except give them areas to hold without being hammered as much by anglers. And it should help the food base. -
Hi! From New Owners Of Backcountry Outfitters
Phil Lilley replied to Tim@Backcountry Outfitters's topic in Introduce yourself
Nice to have you on the forum. Looking forward to meeting you. -
Would be nice to experiment alittle. That doesn't sound like a bad idea at all.
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Should Money Be Spent On A Put-and-take Trout Lake?
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in General Angling Discussion
To clarify the reason I created this topic... this subject kept coming up on a topic I started on Taneycomo's Habitat Improvement. I asked that they started another topic to talk about this subject, they didn't, so I started it for them. I think it's a valid question and the subject should be discussed. My opinion is... put-take fisheries have their place in the state's budget and money "raised" by trout permits should go back to trout fisheries in the way of stocking and improving the fishery. Plus I think there's nothing wrong with using general funds for, say, trout, ie. additional hatchery space at Shepherd. I acknowledge there is a school of thought that native, natural fisheries should receive preferential treatment. I don't share that opinion although I do think it's important for MDC to do what they can to enhance those fisheries because I do think they are important. I mis spoke in statement on another topic. Taneycomo is not a put-and-take lake. It's a put-and-grow-and-take lake. The change is due to the restricted area and its regulations. -
Not sure what you want us to say or acknowledge here. Yes, this is a put-and-take lake. Never will be natural spawning. There is a place in this world for put-and-take lakes. This money was designated for Table Rock and Taneycomo. If you have a problem with that, take it up with the people who gave the money.
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Does anyone know how to use this tool. A gentleman wants to tie knots for legs using pheasant tail material.
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Missouri State Record Brown Trout and the Rest of the Story
Phil Lilley posted a article in Lake Taneycomo
Many of you have read the story of the new state record brown trout landed by resort guest Scott Sandusky two weeks ago as he drifted rainbow PowerBait by Cooper Creek with his Arnold, MO, buddies. What we haven't disclosed until recently was our special Thanksgiving blessing of fishing for and finding the lunker a second time -- this time out of a trash truck . . . At 37 inches long, 24.75 inches in girth and weighing 28.8 pounds, Scott obviously needed to mount his prize, which was roughly a pound heavier than the previous record. We needed to make a decision what to do with his brown while the Missouri Department of Conservation processed the paperwork needed to make his fish the official new state record brown trout. Clint Hale, Shepherd of the Hills Hatchery manager, told us that the fish could not be consumed or taken to a taxidermist until the paperwork was complete which would take a few weeks. So we needed to find a freezer big enough for a 40-inch fish to lay flat, since its bulk had been wrapped in towels to secure its shape. The only one we could find was in the kitchen at the First Baptist Church here in Branson, so dad and I took the fish and placed in the freezer. Honestly, I did think about labeling it somehow to identify it as belonging to someone but . . . I trusted that no one would mess with it. That was our downfall. Dad flashed the fish off in the freezer Sunday night to some fellow church-goers, at least showing off the bulk size of the fish. The towels were frozen to the skin of the trout so he couldn't back the layers, but it was still an impressive sight. On Wednesday morning, dad drove to the church to retreive the record fish to transfer it to a freezer we had. Once the fish was frozen solid, it could be stood upright, fitting into another freezer. The trout was gone. No fish in the freezer anywhere. Jerry asked in the office, but no one know about it. Then he learned of the fish's fate. It had been thrown out into the dumpster on Monday -- only to have been picked up that very Wednesday morning by the trash truck. "I've never been so down in my life as when I saw that fish was gone," Jerry said. He began asking us all to pray for a miracle, and Carolyn, my mother, even called friends to pray. I was headed to a meeting, and resigned myself to the fact that the fish was gone for sure, but dad's tenacity paid off. He called the Alllied Waste company and found out where the truck was headed, drove to Reeds Spring and met the truck there prepared for dumpster diving. The attendants there were experienced in finding the treasures people have thrown out. (Once retrieving some tossed diamond earrings.) They dumped the contents of the truck on a concrete pad and started picking through it with a small bobcat. Mom had accompanied dad for "support" and both were holding their noses and hoping they'd find the fish in decent shape, but with every move, the bobcat did not turn up any light teal-green towels or fish remains. My mom is a woman of faith. Her relationship with the Lord is astounding, and she told dad she was hearing the Lord say it was in a pile "over there." Dad had all but given up on the search, but mom pushed for one more swipe of trash in the area God was directing her to. Then she saw the towel. She waded in and dug it out. The fish was still wrapped in the towel. A small tear in its back was the only visible damage to the fish they could see. They headed back home with the trout, praising God for His constant faithfulness and mercy -- this time exhibited in finding the fish. Scott's brown trout is once again in a freezer, but this time it's in a safer place. Trout that large are actually replicated by taxidermists and not mounted in the traditional way of using the actual fish and its skin. But when the mold is made of the actual fish and a replica cast, Scott will have the mount of a lifetime, representing his "knee-shaking" treasure of a memory: Scott and his friends, Scott Hawkins, Greg Lawson and Craig Thomas, had planned to catch some keeper rainbows to fry for dinner Friday night, then hit the trophy area for lunkers on Saturday. They drifted downstream, using rainbow-colored, paste Power Bait, bumping it on the bottom as you're supposed to. Just below Cooper Creek, Scott set his rod in the rod holder to help with another rig. Thinking he saw a bite, Scott picked his rod back up, set the hook and knew -- he had something big. But he didn't know what it was . . . a catfish? A big carp? If it was a trout, it was a really, really big trout. Then they saw it. It was a brown trout. He had his spin reel set to wind backwards, not trusting the drag. Smart guy because this fish didn't want to play. The brown surged for the far bank, spinning off so much line, so fast, that it was all Scott could do release the handle and watch his line fly off his reel. Then he stopped. Working it closer to the boat, his team of anglers started to plan their attack. One retrieved the net and the other pulled up the trolling motor -- just in time. Four-pound line doesn't last long against a prop. When most people buy a fish net, they don't expect to land a 37-inch fish, right? Scott's net could hold half this fish. It flopped in, it flopped out. Then Scott's net man, Craig, muscled up and got it in the boat. All was made official by Missouri Department of Conservation officials at the Shepherd of the Hills Hatchery. Shane Bush, MDC fisheries biologist and Quenten Fronterhouse, MDC enforcement agent, both helped in this process. Clint Hale, hatchery manager, was also present. -
Zack - I saw a pic of the boulders on top of the post-logs at Beaver. I think they're sitting on bed rock though. We have lots and lots of gravel so I'm not sure it would work exactly like Beaver's installation. But it could be modified to make the best of what's needed at Taney. I mentioned cedars cause they have smaller branches, more branches and I would think holds more invertebrates/insects. FLy-guy, I like your diagram. I agree.
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MDC looked at the White and saw that most if not all the "wood", stumps and logs, washed out the first time they ran water. So anchoring these wood items is the trick. I doubt MDC would want to try anchoring any, esp in the middle, just to have them break free and float into someone's dock. I wouldn't blame them. So unless they find a way to anchoring them, I doubt if they try. But wood would hold more bugs and fish for sure. I thought may be laying boulders on cedar trees- small trees or just branches? Wonder how that would work? Could drill holes in the boulders and cable trees to them.
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New Missouri State Record Broken Today
Phil Lilley replied to Phil Lilley's topic in Upper Lake Taneycomo
You must know Scott... he fishes alot at Carlye. Showed me some pics of nice walleye and sauger he caught there. -
Refresh my memory. What were your findings and how did you come by them? Thanks
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Is this river floated by alot of people in the summer? Nice report and great pics. It's nice to hear about different waters like this one. Thanks.
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Thanks for the report, Gary. The lantern anglers, were they fly fishing? Typically that's something someone would do if fishing for catfish - lite-lining.
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????? Have no idea what you're talking about. Now, back to habitat.
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90% of this money is being spent on Table Rock. Taney's only getting a tiny bit of it.
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The monies we're talking about are not from MDC. It's from the National Fish & Wildlife Foundation and Bass Pro. See my first post.
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Fly Tying Classes At Lilley's Landing
Phil Lilley replied to duckydoty's topic in General Angling Discussion
Hey - maybe I could get JD Dudley to come up from Fayetteville... he holds 5 world records!