Phil Lilley

Fly-fishing: Traditionalists should approve of DEC 'chuck-and-duck' ban Thursday, February 28, 2008 Morgan Lyle http://www.dailygazette.com/news/2008/feb/28/228_FlyFishing/ Beginning Oct. 1, you may start seeing something along the fly-fishing-only zones of the Salmon River that, so far, you haven’t seen very often: back casts. The Department of Environmental Conservation is poised to rid the fly zones of “chuck-and-duck” fishing, which employs large amounts of split shot or similar sinkers, and basically converts a fly rod to a kind of plug-casting rig. Only true fly-fishing — casting the line, not the lure — will be allowed. Generations of anglers after steelheads and salmon on the Lake Ontario tributary have considered heavy sinkers necessary to get their flies to the bottom of deep pools where the fish lie. The split shot also enabled an alternate way of casting: You gather in your slack, raise the rod tip over your left shoulder, snap it forward, lobbing your sinkers and fly into the current. This works even when you’re pinned up against a wooded bank with no room for a back cast, or when you’re shoulder-to-shoulder with other anglers, which are both fairly common occurrences on the Salmon River. Of course, if a pool is ringed with anglers lobbing “slinkies” — three-inch lengths of parachute cord stuffed with split shot and clipped to the leader — then real fly-fishing is going to be difficult, if not impossible. Getting a fly near the bottom of an eight-foot-deep pool, even when using a sinking fly line, requires casting well upstream of the target lie. That’s not possible in crowded conditions. Chuck-and-duck fishing leads to crowding, and crowding makes chuck-and-duck necessary. And, of course, all those flies dragged to the bottom by all that weight cause lots of foul-hooking. For a significant percentage of chuck-and-duck anglers, that’s the whole idea. They’re convinced salmon and steelhead seldom, if ever, bite, and believe snagging them is the only way to catch them. All that ends in the fly zones on Oct. 1. You’ll still be allowed to use weighted flies and weight on your leader, the way you would nymph-fish a trout stream, but you won’t be allowed to use weight to the extent that it becomes “the primary means of propelling the cast.” In other words, you have to cast the line, with the fly going along for the ride, which is the basic defin­ition of fly-fishing. At first, I imagined an uproar in the parking lots when anglers who drove all night from Pennsylvania or Massachusetts are told they can’t use their slinkies. Indeed, there have been a handful of complaints to the DEC about banning chuck-and-duck from the fly-fishing-only water. But overall, the trend on the Salmon River’s fly zones has been toward traditional fly-fishing, back cast and all, according to Fran Verdoliva, the Salmon River program coordinator for the DEC. “You see less and less people in that particular section using the running line, strip-casting technique,” Verdoliva said. “You see people using some weight, but still able to roll cast or overhead cast.” I wondered about how the rule would be enforced, since the new regulation doesn’t say specifically how much weight is allowed. Verdoliva said DEC law enforcement officers know the difference between chuck-and-duck casting and trad­itional roll casts or overhead casts. As he noted, the difference in the two techniques is pretty obvious. What about the catching? Is it possible to catch bottom-oriented salmon and steelhead with traditional fly-fishing gear and tactics? You bet. There has always been a small group of Salmon River anglers who fish that way. They catch their share of fish, and while they probably hook up less often than chuck-and-duckers, they probably find the fish they do catch more rewarding. “There have been a couple of people who’ve contacted me through the department and said, ‘I won’t be able to fish anymore,’ ” Verdoliva said. “To put it bluntly, that’s kind of stupid. If that’s the only way you can fish, you’re pretty limited.” And as Verdoliva, a former Salmon River guide who still enjoys chuck-and-duck fishing sometimes, pointed out, if you simply must chuck and duck, you’ll have 12 miles of river on which to do it. Meanwhile, those of us who really want to fly-fish will finally be able to. By the way, during the summer, weight will continue to be banned altogether from the Salmon River’s fly zones, in order to provide fair chase for summer-run steelheads and Atlantic salmon. Most people think of the Salmon River as being a fall, winter and early spring fishery, but the summer species are becoming more common, and people who know how to fish for them are having success, Verdoliva said. “It doesn’t sound like much, but we had 20 Atlantics here come to the hatchery this fall,” he said. “We’ve never had any at all before.”

Has it been a year?!?!? I had to go back and check the archives.... just to make sure you were cheating and taking a second special day... Thanks Tim for all you do for us here on OAF. Phil

Was looking at some old posts and found this - Tuesday March 6, 2007 James R. at Galena 49 degrees Beaver Cr. at Kissee Mills 53 degrees White River channel at Shadowrock boat ramp 51 degrees Spring River OK at Hwy. 10 57 degrees N. Fork White R. at Tecumseh 45 degrees (actual 3/5/07) Interesting to look almost a year back and see how far behind we are of last year. But this is really what I'd call a normal year.

Your love for fishing is shared by everyone who signs up or not... types or not... just the fact that you registered and made your first post- that's more than most who register. Don't worry about a thing... just go fishing and if you feel like it, tell us how you did.

Nice report. We worked on your boat most of today... tough getting all the varnish off but we did. One side has a new coat but it got too late for the other side so Jim and Phyliss will finish it tomorrow, I think. Depends on how fast the coats dry.

Thanks for signing up... looking forward to hear how you do this spring.

Boy there's alot of color variations and conditions- it'd take a book to list them all. Blue is always good for whites. But the standards are smoke, chartreuse, motor oil and purple. The latter two for walleye, with red specks.

I only do this report every 4 years so listen up! Generation has slowed all during the week. Today is no different, starting fairly heavy early and dropping all during the day but never going all the way off. Tomorrow may be more of the same or none at all. I'm guessing none. Our trout are revidalized from the running water. Good and strong and always hungry... well almost always. There's been a fair amount of pressure on them last weekend and even during the week this week but still people seem to be really good, drifting in front of our place using power eggs and gulp eggs and catching rainbows. I've seen some decent ones and some small ones. If you get lucky and the water is running, remember to drop the weight size as the water drops and you won't get hung up as bad. Down past Cooper to Monkey Island, rainbows are keying in on spoons pretty good- little cleos in nickle and gold with alittle red or blue mixed. Also your spin-a-lures. From Fall Creek to Short Creek, jig and float using the regular colors- olive, brown and black and of course sculpin mixed with colors like ginger and peach with an orange head. Fish it 4-6 feet deep. If they're running water, use a 1/32 and if they're not- 1/50 to 1/125th or a micro. 2 pound line always catches more fish. Might try throwing a crank bait up around the docks drifting down. Above Fall Creek, white jigs if the water isn't running is still doing well. If not, back to the old tactics like jig and float, throwing a straight jig or fly rodding it. Flies- scuds and midges should be a killer this weekend. 6x tippet and a scud fished on the drop off and on the bottom- try gray shades as well as brown, tan and olive. They don't seem to be real picky on the color or size. #14- #16 is good. Also Zebra Midges fished shallow on the flats and deeper in the channel. If there's a chop- strip a soft hackle or a wooly.

Knew you'd find an excuse to come down again this winter... glad I could help.

Any of the low-end Shimano do fine- $29- $39. Rainbow, brown, gold or silver F-7's or 9's work well, as well as your regular Pointers and other stick baits. This time of year, creeks are good too.

Fixed the cart... what a pain! Don't like carts esp for all the work that goes into setting one up. Minnows... no marketing needed. They flat work. Whites, walleye, bass, crappie. The difference between new and old is personal experience. The old timers who have used the original ones won't buy anything else. I don't think the fish know the difference though.

Just noticed something on the cart... it's charging too much. They're supposed to be 1.15 for 10 minnows. If you want some- tell me the color and quantity and I'll take care of it.

http://www.lilleystacklestore.com/xcart/home.php?cat=289

They've slowed generation down all week to just a little all day today. Table Rock is almost down to power pool and it's supposed to be warm SO I don't think they'll run much if any.

There are 2 companies making them- or were making them. The old one in Florida and a new one someplace else. I can get all the new ones thru my regular supplier but I get the original ones thru Mark at Cricket Creek Marina. I bought about 12,000 from Mark last winter- all the good colors. Both make about the same colors... and I think they both catch fish... but there are some who swear by the original swimming minnows so that's why I have them. Mark isn't around the Marina this early in the season but he may be there this weekend- I'll call him.

We see most of the spawners in December and some in January but our rainbows don't know really when they spawn. Their upbringing in the hatchery screws them all up so some are spawning for most of the winter, spring and summer. But nothing like the browns spawn numbers, anytime.

You'll need a boat. Fishing depends on what happens between now the then.. Water temp will be the key.

Man I would say with the water temp as cold as it is, they're deep and you'd have to fish really slow. Gotta know the lake's temp hasn't been this cold this late in the winter for some years. We're used to 50 right now and crappie heating up but not this year.

I have a friend in Neosho that can catch them anytime... I asked him the other day how he knows where to fish- he said he just knows where he fishes at any given time of year, water temp is a factor, and goes to those spots and they're there. I've got a call in for him. Was going to ask for a suggestion to where to go.

MDC says no. May be a few in the creeks but not many.

Oh- I have a friend in Neosho that will take you up on that! Paul Crews. He's a fish-a-holic and love Stockton too. Fishes the Spring River as well as Grand. Catches white bass year round. I'll tell him to check the forum

Good thing I bought over 12,000 last spring. I'll talk to my source- he'll know if it's true or not.

Gages on Long Creek, Table Rock Lake. Get a border lakes permit and travel down into Arkansas OR stay at Cricket Creek on highway 14 on Long Creek, nice place and goo fishing. It's the first place to warmup, water and fishing wise.

Yes- up until 8 am no problem.

May see a pause in generation if Table Rock keeps dropping and we get no rain. So it's alittle early to make a definite call. If drifting, go to the cable and use a white 1/8th oz jig and work it off the bottom. Get some other colors too like olive, black and brown just in case they don't like white that day. Also drift egg flies in peach and pink on the bottom also. Below Fall Creek gulp power eggs are working in white, orange and yellow. Table Rock's temp is still below 40 so you won't find much esp from the bank. But it may change. Again, wait alittle closer to your trip.