Phil Lilley

Not at any cost.

Here's the dates so far- 11/3 gonefishin 11/22 Luke 11/23 Leonard 12/23 WebFreeman 12/25 Crappiefisherman 1/1 leo 1/7 Kansas Fly Fisher 1/16 motroutbum 1/28 riverrat 2/14 TexomaOkie 2/16 Snow Fly 3/1 Hunter91 3/5 Goggle-Eyed 3/10 swimslow 3/15 The Caddis 3/22 Backcountry Outfitters 3/26 RainbowHunter 4/1 outdoor nut 4/2 davekeim 4/7 slabseeker 4/8 Kicknbass 4/9 superfly 4/15 rls1936 4/20 Terry Beeson 5/15 1HawgHunter 5/18 ollie 6/1 russ 6/12 stone9-7=2 7/12 Steve Smith 8/2 Gary Lange

I did with alittle success. I was surprised I didn't do better.

Sure- I hope to wade this week. Call me.

I just got off the water. I walked in just after 6 am to the rebar hole and started throwing woolies- nothing till it got light. There was a mud line coming from the old outlet #3 from the construction. It covered about 25% of the stream to the hole and backed up in the eddie. It wasn't that bad- the browns later when I got light kept coming up and swirling in the muddy water. One male about 20 pounds- scared me every time! Landed 5-6 rainbows and one small brown- best on red san juan worm #14. #14 grey scud caught a couple. Couldn't find anything the browns were interested in. Chuck walked in with a client at 8 am. He fished below me. The client was having a hard time hooking and keeping fish on- too much slack. NoBarb- if you don't mind me asking- what fly did you have the best luck on?

?? Stem cells can be taken from an umbilical cord after birth. I don't think adult stems cells are in short supply. Never heard that before. Embryonic stem cells may be because the only legal ESC's are the ones already in cryonic storage (frozen). I'm speaking off the top of my head again- dangerous sounding I know. I have to run to the college and pay some school bills and can't research anything for a while.

Did they ever start? Was hoping for glowing reports and dazzling pics by now!!

Super-sized... Nice smalley!

I hope so too... as hot as the NY Mets are tonight!!

I agree. Stem cell research is going on right now- adult- legally. Embryo also but there are guidelines. Can anyone state a good reason why this research is SO much better, showing that much MORE promise of cures? Why is this proposal so important to make it a state amendment? What about cloning human embryos? How far do you go to cure the sick... I should say TRY to cure the sick. Any scientist can hold a carrot in front of people and promise a cure... what assurances does the Joe-citizen have that they are telling the truth, or just wanting more money. Or if there a 'chance'.. what is it- a 90% chance? A 2% chance? How much does this 'chance' improve with embryos vs adult stem cells? How much money has MDA raised for how many years and how far have they gotten to cure MD? I'm not picking on MDA- I'm honestly asking a question.

I still say....

More stuff... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somatic_cell_nuclear_transfer Somatic Cell Transfer In genetics and developmental biology, somatic cell nuclear transfer (SCNT) is a technique for cloning. It can be used in embryonic stem cell research, in which the process is often called "research cloning" or "therapeutic cloning." It can also be used in reproductive cloning. The process In SCNT the nucleus, which contains the organism's DNA, of a somatic cell (a body cell other than a sperm or egg cell) is removed and the rest of the cell is discarded. At the same time, the nucleus of an egg cell is removed. The nucleus of the somatic cell is then inserted into the enucleated egg cell. After being inserted into to the egg, the somatic cell nucleus is reprogrammed by the host cell. The egg, now containing the nucleus of a somatic cell, is stimulated in such a way that it begins to divide. After many mitotic divisions in culture, this single cell forms a blastocyst (an early stage embryo with about 100 cells) with almost identical DNA to the original organism. http://www.aamc.org/advocacy/library/research/res0003.htm Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer (Therapeutic Cloning) Cloning is the creation of multiple copies of a single molecule, cell, or virus. There are many different kinds of cloning, most of which are now commonplace in science. Cloning has allowed scientists to develop powerful new drugs and to produce insulin and useful bacteria in the lab. It also allows researchers to track the origins of biological weapons, catch criminals and free innocent people, and produce new plants and livestock to feed an undernourished world population. Somatic Cell Nuclear Transfer (SCNT) or therapeutic cloning involves removing the nucleus of an unfertilized egg cell, replacing it with the material from the nucleus of a "somatic cell" (a skin, heart, or nerve cell, for example), and stimulating this cell to begin dividing. Once the cell begins dividing, stem cells can be extracted 5-6 days later and used for research. The AAMC supports on-going research into SCNT and has endorsed legislation that would allow such research to flourish. Reproductive cloning, on the other hand, is intended to create human beings by cloning human embryos. The AAMC and the National Academy of Sciences recommend a ban on all forms of this type of cloning. http://www4.nationalacademies.org/onpi/web...2b?OpenDocument In the somatic cell nuclear tranfer technique, stem cells that are genetically identical with the cells of a recipient's own body could be derived. A somatic cell is any cell other than a sperm, egg, or cell that gives rise to a sperm or egg. The nucleus of the egg (containing its DNA) is removed and replaced with the nucleus (and its DNA) of a somatic cell (such as skin or blood) from the recipient. The egg containing the transferred nucleus is then encouraged to divide until it reaches the blastocyst stage, at which time the cells of the inner cell mass are removed and cultured. The resulting stem cells would be immunologically compatible with the recipient's own tissues because they would not contain DNA that produces proteins that the recipient's body would react to as "foreign". http://www.bioedonline.org/slides/slide01....er%22&dpg=8 Interesting reading. ******* Amendment 2 6. (5) "Human embryonic stem cell research," also referred to as "early stem cell research," means any scientific or medical research involving human stem cells derived from in vitro fertilization blastocysts or from somatic cell nuclear transfer. For purposes of this section, human embryonic stem cell research does not include stem cell clinical trials. The amendment says "no cloning... can't break existing federal laws" but acknowledge SCNT as part of their research using embryonic cells. Is this a loophole?

The amendment - http://www.nocloning.org/amendment.pdf

Groundhog or... and dare I say it... but a small bear.

Correction - it happened in the morning, not afternoon.

Just came from Anglers and Archery... bought a half dozen arrows for my bow hunting trip next weekend. Chuck said he's had good success this week- his clients hooking and landing a few big browns. One 13.5 lb female he had a pic of. Chuck has always been an awesome guide for browns. He's proven year after year he knows how to do it.

It's gonna happen. That's all you can say.

I gotta an email into Chris Vitello... we'll find out soon- it usually takes a few days. I did search MDC's site and couldn't find the actual code language- that's what I was hoping to quote.

With last year's "new language", these materials are legal in the trophy area, as I understand it.

List of Terry's alias's - Alice_Medichi34 Panayoty_X Alice_Medichi neirty12ye Luise Fed www fenik06ok1 poltyaska xPetrIx SystemDoctor_001 PlasticSurgery2 iiilizium abalavsan PrettylikePlayer Pharmacycvs Gimilino02 streamatecams02 doctor4uonly Nadejdaffg3445 JinnaXXX Bigtiits vcemprevet WinAntivirus_009 StalonneX77 Terry Beeson

Jim passed away Friday afternoon. The story told me is that while fishing below the dam at Taney, he felt sick. He walked up to his truck and was sitting on his tailgate when a gentleman from Tulsa, a Mr. Epperson, noticed he did look good and asked him how he felt. He answered he thought he was having a heart attack. Epperson called 911, got Jim in his vehicle and started for town. They met the EMT's half way, got Jim out of the truck but he was already gone. They tried to revive him but could not. Jim had planned to fish with Lincoln next weekend in the YMCA benefit on Taney. He was 53. Life is short people. Our time here is only a vapor compared to eternity. I will post service time and place as soon as I find out details.

National Academies Guidelines for Research on Human Embryonic Stem Cells http://fermat.nap.edu/books/0309096537/html/97.html This is interesting reading. http://fermat.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_...78&page=123 OCR for page 123 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research Appendix A Compilation of Recommendations RECOMMENDATIONS FROM CHAPTER 3 Recommendation 1: To provide local oversight of all issues related to derivation and research use of hES cell lines and to facilitate education of investigators involved in hES cell research, all institutions conducting hES cell research should establish an Embryonic Stem Cell Research Oversight (ESCRO) committee. The committee should include representatives of the public and persons with expertise in developmental biology, stem cell research, molecular biology, assisted reproduction, and ethical and legal issues in hES cell research. The ESCRO committee would not substitute for an Institutional Review Board but rather would provide an additional level of review and scrutiny warranted by the complex issues raised by hES cell research. The committee would also serve to review basic hES cell research using preexisting anonymous cell lines that does not require consideration by an Institutional Review Board. Recommendation 2: Through its Embryonic Stem Cell Research Oversight (ESCRO) committee, each research institution should ensure that the provenance of hES cells is documented. Documentation should include evidence that the procurement process was approved by an Institutional Review Board to ensure adherence to the basic ethical and legal principles of informed consent and protection of confidentiality. OCR for page 124 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research Recommendation 3: Embryonic Stem Cell Research Oversight (ESCRO) committees or their equivalents should divide research proposals into three categories in setting limits on research and determining the requisite level of oversight: (a) Research that is permissible after notification of the research institution’s ESCRO committee and completion of the reviews mandated by current requirements. Purely in vitro hES cell research with pre-existing coded or anonymous hES cell lines in general is permissible provided that notice of the research, documentation of the provenance of the cell lines, and evidence of compliance with any required Institutional Review Board, Institutional Animal Care and Use Committee, Institutional Biosafety Committee, or other mandated reviews is provided to the ESCRO committee or other body designated by the investigator’s institution. ( Research that is permissible only after additional review and approval by an ESCRO committee or other equivalent body designated by the investigator’s institution. The ESCRO committee should evaluate all requests for permission to attempt derivation of new hES cell lines from donated blastocysts, from in vitro fertilized oocytes, or by nuclear transfer. The scientific rationale for the need to generate new hES cell lines, by whatever means, should be clearly presented, and the basis for the numbers of blastocysts or oocytes needed should be justified. Such requests should be accompanied by evidence of Institutional Review Board approval of the procurement process. All research involving the introduction of hES cells into nonhuman animals at any stage of embryonic, fetal, or postnatal development should be reviewed by the ESCRO committee. Particular attention should be paid to the probable pattern and effects of differentiation and integration of the human cells into the nonhuman animal tissues. Research in which personally identifiable information about the donors of the blastocysts, gametes, or somatic cells from which the hES cells were derived is readily ascertainable by the investigator also requires ESCRO committee review and approval. © Research that should not be permitted at this time: Research involving in vitro culture of any intact human embryo, regardless of derivation method, for longer than 14 days or until formation of the primitive streak begins, whichever occurs first. Research in which hES cells are introduced into nonhuman primate blastocysts or in which any ES cells are introduced into human blastocysts. OCR for page 125 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research In addition: No animal into which hES cells have been introduced at any stage of development should be allowed to breed. Recommendation 4: Through its Embryonic Stem Cell Research Oversight (ESCRO) committee, each research institution should establish and maintain a registry of investigators conducting hES cell research and record descriptive information about the types of research being performed and the hES cells in use. Recommendation 5: If a U.S.-based investigator collaborates with an investigator in another country, the Embryonic Stem Cell Research Oversight (ESCRO) committee may determine that the procedures prescribed by the foreign institution afford protections equivalent with these guidelines and may approve the substitution of some or all of the foreign procedures for its own. Recommendation 6: A national body should be established to assess periodically the adequacy of the guidelines proposed in this document and to provide a forum for a continuing discussion of issues involved in hES cell research. Recommendation 7: The hES cell research community should ensure that there is sufficient genetic diversity among cell lines to allow for potential translation into health-care services for all groups in our society. RECOMMENDATIONS FROM CHAPTER 4 Recommendation 8: Regardless of the source of funding and the applicability of federal regulations, an Institutional Review Board or its equivalent should review the procurement of gametes, blastocysts, or somatic cells for the purpose of generating new hES cell lines, including the procurement of blastocysts in excess of clinical need from in vitro fertilization clinics, blastocysts made through in vitro fertilization specifically for research purposes, and oocytes, sperm, and somatic cells donated for development of hES cell lines derived through nuclear transfer. Recommendation 9: Institutional Review Boards may not waive the requirement for obtaining informed consent from any person whose somatic cells, gametes, or blastocysts are used in hES research. OCR for page 126 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research Recommendation 10: Investigators, institutions, Institutional Review Boards, and privacy boards should ensure that authorizations are received from donors, as appropriate and required by federal human subjects protections and the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act for the confidential transmission of personal health information to repositories or to investigators who are using hES cell lines derived from donated materials. Recommendation 11: Investigators and institutions involved in hES cell research should conduct the research in accordance with all applicable laws and guidelines pertaining to recombinant DNA research and animal care. Institutions should consider adopting Good Laboratory Practice standards for some or all of their basic hES cell research. Recommendation 12: hES cell research leading to potential clinical application must be in compliance with all applicable Food and Drug Administration (FDA) regulations. If FDA requires that a link to the donor source be maintained, investigators and institutions must ensure that the confidentiality of the donor is protected, that the donor understands that a link will be maintained, and that, where applicable, federal human subjects protections and Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act or other privacy protections are followed. RECOMMENDATIONS FROM CHAPTER 5 Recommendation 13: When donor gametes have been used in the in vitro fertilization process, resulting blastocysts may not be used for research without consent of all gamete donors. Recommendation 14: To facilitate autonomous choice, decisions related to the production of embryos for infertility treatment should be free of the influence of investigators who propose to derive or use hES cells in research. Whenever it is practicable, the attending physician responsible for the infertility treatment and the investigator deriving or proposing to use hES cells should not be the same person. Recommendation 15: No cash or in kind payments may be provided for donating blastocysts in excess of clinical need for research purposes. OCR for page 127 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research Recommendation 16: Women who undergo hormonal induction to generate oocytes specifically for research purposes (such as for nuclear transfer) should be reimbursed only for direct expenses incurred as a result of the procedure, as determined by an Institutional Review Board. No cash or in kind payments should be provided for donating oocytes for research purposes. Similarly, no payments should be made for donations of sperm for research purposes or of somatic cells for use in nuclear transfer. Recommendation 17: Consent for blastocyst donation should be obtained from each donor at the time of donation. Even people who have given prior indication of their intent to donate to research any blastocysts that remain after clinical care should nonetheless give informed consent at the time of donation. Donors should be informed that they retain the right to withdraw consent until the blastocysts are actually used in cell line derivation. Recommendation 18: In the context of donation of gametes or blastocysts for hES cell research, the informed consent process, should, at a minimum, provide the following information: A statement that the blastocysts or gametes will be used to derive hES cells for research that may include research on human transplantation. A statement that the donation is made without any restriction or direction regarding who may be the recipient of transplants of the cells derived, except in the case of autologous donation. A statement as to whether the identities of the donors will be readily ascertainable to those who derive or work with the resulting hES cell lines. If the identities of the donors are retained (even if coded), a statement as to whether donors wish to be contacted in the future to receive information obtained through studies of the cell lines. An assurance that participants in research projects will follow applicable and appropriate best practices for donation, procurement, culture, and storage of cells and tissues to ensure, in particular, the traceability of stem cells. (Traceable information, however, must be secured to ensure confidentiality.) A statement that derived hES cells and/or cell lines might be kept for many years. A statement that the hES cells and/or cell lines might be used in research involving genetic manipulation of the cells or the mixing of human and nonhuman cells in animal models. OCR for page 128 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research Disclosure of the possibility that the results of study of the hES cells may have commercial potential and a statement that the donor will not receive financial or any other benefits from any future commercial development; A statement that the research is not intended to provide direct medical benefit to the donor(s) except in the case of autologous donation. A statement that embryos will be destroyed in the process of deriving hES cells. A statement that neither consenting nor refusing to donate embryos for research will affect the quality of any future care provided to potential donors. A statement of the risks involved to the donor. Recommendation 19: Consenting or refusing to donate gametes or embryos for research should not affect or alter in any way the quality of care provided to prospective donors. That is, clinical staff must provide appropriate care to patients without prejudice regarding their decisions about disposition of their embryos. Recommendation 20: Clinical personnel who have a conscientious objection to hES cell research should not be required to participate in providing donor information or securing donor consent for research use of gametes or blastocysts. That privilege should not extend to the care of a donor or recipient. Recommendation 21: Researchers may not ask members of the infertility treatment team to generate more oocytes than necessary for the optimal chance of reproductive success. An infertility clinic or other third party responsible for obtaining consent or collecting materials should not be able to pay for or be paid for the material obtained (except for specifically defined cost-based reimbursements and payments for professional services). Recommendation 22: Institutions that are banking or plan to bank hES cell lines should establish uniform guidelines to ensure that donors of material give informed consent through a process approved by an Institutional Review Board, and that meticulous records are maintained about all aspects of cell culture. Uniform tracking systems and common guidelines for distribution of cells should be established. OCR for page 129 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research Recommendation 23: Any facility engaged in obtaining and storing hES cell lines should consider the following standards: (a) Creation of a committee for policy and oversight purposes and creation of clear and standardized protocols for banking and withdrawals. ( Documentation requirements for investigators and sites that deposit cell lines, including A copy of the donor consent form. Proof of Institutional Review Board approval of the procurement process. Available medical information on the donors, including results of infectious-disease screening. Available clinical, observational, or diagnostic information about the donor(s). Critical information about culture conditions (such as media, cell passage, and safety information). Available cell line characterization (such as karyotype and genetic markers). A repository has the right of refusal if prior culture conditions or other items do not meet its standards. © A secure system for protecting the privacy of donors when materials retain codes or identifiable information, including but not limited to A schema for maintaining confidentiality (such as a coding system). A system for a secure audit trail from primary cell lines to those submitted to the repository. A policy governing whether and how to deliver clinically significant information back to donors. (d) The following standard practices: Assignment of a unique identifier to each sample. A process for characterizing cell lines. A process for expanding, maintaining, and storing cell lines. A system for quality assurance and control. A website that contains scientific descriptions and data related to the cell lines available. A procedure for reviewing applications for cell lines. A process for tracking disbursed cell lines and recording their status when shipped (such as number of passages). A system for auditing compliance. A schedule of charges. OCR for page 130 Guidelines for Human Embryonic Stem Cell Research A statement of intellectual property policies. When appropriate, creation of a clear Material Transfer Agreement or user agreement. A liability statement. A system for disposal of material. (e) Clear criteria for distribution of cell lines, including but not limited to evidence of approval of the research by an Embryonic Stem Cell Research Oversight committee or equivalent body at the recipient institution. ************* I'm going to go alittle further with my search but it seems the Al's statement Text of the initiative SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITS donation of eggs or blastocysts used in stem cell research for money. can't be true because the practice is already happening, according to this document. I would also interject this thought about amendments- depending on who writes the text (lawyers) and who edite the text (lawyers), there are those (lawyers) who can get around roadblocks in the text after the amnedment is passed... ie. gambling "boats" on rivers whicn now are not actually boats but 'close' to water- say within a mile or two. I am not a lawyer but I question the strength of this amendment's language to keep research companies from an all out assault on our medical ethics codes. More research.

http://ozarkanglers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=1687 If you have problems finding flies or other things on the forum or ozarkanglers, use the search on the forum or the goolge search tool and search only ozarkanglers. It works good!

When you say 'ponds' you mean the raceways at the hatchery- right? Not sure if this is true at Shepherd- it's a good question to ask James. Don't you think it's a food-base problem, as well as a stocking issue? I know there's very few if any scuds in the Cooper area- they're food base has to be forage fish and midges... midges primarily. Low Flow = Low Food Base This seems to be the case.

To clarify my 'Creator' comment- when man reaches the point of being able to manipulate the building blocks of humans beings and actually create life, so-to-speak, I can see God stepping in. That's a broad statement, mind you. I'm not an avocate of the world ending soon, although in this age of nuks in the hands of terrists and rogue nations, it very well could. I'm just saying man has come to the place in time where he has absolutely no fear of God and consequences of our actions.