Bill Butts

Who do you know in the area that might keep up with the spring run of White Bass and other species in the Elk River? Would the folks at Cow Skin be a good source for info? I wonder where would be a logical take out point if we rented a canoe and floated down from their place to the lake? White Bass need clean gravel to drop their eggs, so they have to be up in there somewhere during the spawn. I have heard over the years that Hybrids go up in there as late as early June. Any knowledge of that or other helpful info? Thanks for any info you can provide. Bill

If you are hunting to catch Temperate Bass (Stripers, Hybrids and Whites) it is critical to have the best and most up to the minute reports from reputable sources. I would highly suggest that you call the Beaver Dam Store AND McLellans Fly Shop for that info. Recently, there have been more and consistent reports from the War Eagle arm, but those fickle fish can change their pattern quickly. Make the phone calls just before your trip. You'll be glad you did. Good Luck, Bill

Greetings~ Just a quick report from last Saturday,17th. Fished all day above Twin Bridges with fishin buddies John and Dave, and yes the fish were certainly there. Water temps stayed in the high 50's throughout the day which was mostly cloudy, which helps with fish that are light sensitive. We spent almost the entire day in a stretch about 150 yards long that was nice to wade with a tall mud bank and nice flow. John and I both keep a journal for a lot of reasons, including a fish count. I would tell you how many we caught but it would sound like a lie blown out of proportion. Let's just say it was good all day long as long as you kept a Clouser of any color with any hair left on it in the water. John did have a bonus fish, a nice 6# Hybrid Striper. Fun day. Bill

Chief~ That's a great report, congratulations. Is your son hooked on White Bass fishing, now? Do you know how far above the bridge you have to go to reach water with river current, and wadable gravel bars? It would be helpful to know, since some of us wade the shallow areas on the Spring River and do very well. If you plan to go back any time from now to mid-May, you could luck into some Hybrid Stripers that were planted in the lake 2 yr ago and should now be in the 15-16" range. You'll know when you hook one, they will immediately take off running. The lateral lines will be distinctly darker but broken, unlike a Striper that almost always has perfectly clean dark lines. Thanks for any additional info you can provide. Bill

Jim, That's a great heads-up from Bobber. Thanks to him for sharing. I would suggest you call a couple of fly shops in that area that are knowledgable about the fishery. They follow it very closely this time of year. Todd or Michael at McLellan's Fly Shop....479-251-7037 Steve at the Beaver Dam Store....479-253-6154 Please remember to post your experiences, good or not so good. Hope this is helpful. Bill

Randall, I would think a pontoon would not have any issue, but I would suggest you call one of the MDC Agents for those counties and ask their opinion. That lake is split by Randolph and Macon counties and there are actually 4 total agents. However, I talked with Cris Decoske a while back and she was very helpful. You can reach her at 660-263-6761. She is the agent that told me about a year ago she watched some flyfishermen catching Hybrids on the surface from the opposite side of the channel. Let us know how you do. Bill

Kenny, Thanks for your post and explanation. No hard feelings on my part. That's a good idea to keep track of unfamiliar vehicles, though it would seem to be a formidable task this time of year with all the fishermen. Hope to meet up with you up there some time, or in the shop again. Since you're up there a lot, please post the water temps and water conditions as often as you can. Good luck, this Spring. Bill

Randall, A map of "wadable" water for any lake or stream does not exist in the form in which you request, to my knowledge. My understanding of Thomas Hill, from an MDC Agent, is that the boat ramp IN the discharge channel allows easy access across the channel where the opposite side has wadable water without many backcast obstructions. That Agent said she has observed fly fishers catching Hybrids on surface flies while wading the opposite side of the channel. Please post your experience if you go there to check it out. Hope this helps. Bill

Jim, Yes, there are 2 good shops in that area. McLellans in Fayetteville track those two rivers very closely. Call them at (479) 251-7037, and talk with Michael or Todd. Their website is www.mcflyshop.com The other shop is the Beaver Dam Store at 479-253-6154. Talk with Steve, but I'm not sure if they track the spring runs as closely. They are at the opposite end of the lake. Dutch, Thanks for your post and water temp. That is cooler than I found it the one time was there, 2 weeks ago, at 50 degrees right at Taylor Bridge. Interesting. Why is it important? When temps are in the high 40's to mid-50's, the Whites are very sensitive to significant drops in temp, which causes them to flee for deeper lake water or sulk in deeper river channel holes in the river. Whites can begin to spawn at 57-58 degrees, but I've seldom seen that. Usually, it is low to mid-60's for full spawn. Once it gets that warm, a water temp change of a few degrees doesn't have a dramatic affect on them. By comparison, Walleye are the coldest water spawners in this area and can spawn in water as cold as 47. Hope this is helpful. Bill

Tuesday March 6, 2007 James R. at Galena 49 degrees Beaver Cr. at Kissee Mills 53 degrees White River channel at Shadowrock boat ramp 51 degrees Spring River OK at Hwy. 10 57 degrees N. Fork White R. at Tecumseh 45 degrees (actual 3/5/07) Thought some would appreciate having these. Obviously there are variables on a daily basis that can cause readings to vary, like sunlight on the water for hours and shallow vs. deeper water. These were all taken near the bank, in moving water. Anyone have a recent reading for the Sac or Little Sac, up in flowing water? Thanks. Bill

wily, Thanks for your post. The water level of the Neosho looks very fishable, 600+ cfs, but is it horribly muddy? Do you know where the Miami stream gage is on the river? Above Miami, or below the Dam somewhere? The Spring River has come down a lot to a very fishable level of 1200 cfs this morning. Like you said, that should be getting very good, very soon. Another critical factor in the Spring season fishing equation, for any specie, that I rarely see posted is water temperature. If you have a thermometer or can get one, this info is vital for tracking and predicting the likelihood of fish being in the river, and whether spawning time is close. If you keep a fishing trip journal, the water temp is excellent to compare from year to year, too. Thanks again, Bill

KM~ Your post contains a humorous, over zealous, and unsubstantiated accusation. If you would like information, ask for it in a respectful manner like nearly-100% of the members of this Forum and you will get it. You asked about the Little Sac arm of the lake. For your information, I don't fish either arm of the lake in the Spring, only the Sac and Little Sac rivers. The one and only time I was in that area recently was over a week ago for a VERY brief time on the lower Little Sac and it was my decision not to post a report for that reason. Those on the Forum that have read my posts know that I am a very willing and open contributor and post detailed information when I have something I believe can be helpful to others. I also receive and answer lots of PM and email requests for individual assistance mostly related to the Temperate Bass topics. You obviously have me confused with someone else, if you think you "noticed me....up in the Aldrich area the last couple of weeks", unless you were there that brief time I was and you know who I am. Perhaps we know each other, perhaps not, but your anonymity on this Forum doesn't give you a license to call people out in attempting to trash their integrity. If you've been working up in that area for a month, why is it that you haven't posted any information about fishing the area, or even seeing and talking with others fishing there, or what the water temp is, etc? And, why wait so long to ask? Your buddy, Jim, spends a lot of time in a fly shop so wouldn't that be another logical place to get lots of reports from those looking for early season Whites? There are two Bass Pros and several tackle shops in this general area (50-60 mile radius) that I absolutely guarantee have talked with fishermen that have been hunting for Whites and some will have had success. Why is it that you don't jump all their butts (no pun intended) for not posting reports, too? Many of them read the OA Forum, and some are members. Dutch posted an excellent report that he caught over 60 Whites one day this week. He also fished on two consecutive days, so he is one you could be asking for information because he has spent enough time there recently to have a good perspective. He has already shared quite a bit of valuable information that you should find helpful, too. Be sure to post your experiences when you go. This should be a great Spring season with the excellent water conditions it appears we will have. This Forum is enriched by those who are willing to share their knowledge and experiences. Unfortunately, some members and many more non-member readers are purely "takers" and never contribute. What do the rest of you think? Bill

buffaloman, I suggest the very best thing you can do to obtain the best matching line for your old fly rod is to take it to a reputable fly tackle dealer and ask their expert advice. They should have some store demo lines they can test cast on it to evaluate. One fact I always try to nicely explain to those attempting to utilize old tackle is that there is a lot of very good equipment on the market today at very reasonable prices that will outperform even some of the more expensive older tackle. It's something to keep in mind, especially as you are learning the sport. Also, be sure to discuss with the dealer what you want to fish for, and where. This will help them determine your needs for tackle to do the job properly, too. Always good to hear of another new fly fishing convert. Good luck in your pursuits, Bill If you need a suggestion for a good tackle dealer, send me a PM including the area you live.

torrey, Welcome to the OA Forum. The last of March can be very good timing for fishing that general area. If you are interested mostly in Stripers, your probable best bets will be to go west into OK just a short drive on I-40 where there are multiple potential hot spots. The tailwaters below Tenkiller, Eufala, and Ft. Gibson Lakes all hold Stripers and sometimes lots of them, depending on current conditions. For that fishing, you will need a boat. The AR River runs right around the city of Ft. Smith, so there would certainly be the possibility of finding Stipers there, or in some of its tributaries. Depending on the time you will have, there are 3 great lakes southeast of Ft. Smith, DeGray, Greeson and Ouachita, that are excellent Striper fisheries. If you've fished for Stripers/Hybrids/Whites before, you know they can be challenging to find, but not usually difficult to catch. You didn't mention whether you are a fly fisherman or what other species you are interested in, but I would suggest you try to contact the tackle shop below for some current, local info. The Woodsman 5111 Rogers Ave. # 204 Fort Smith, AR 72903 Phone: (479) 452-3559 Hopefully some others on this Forum will also be beneficial to you in your quest for information. You can also subscribe free to the AR Game & Fish statewide fishing report at the following link: http://www.agfc.com/fishing/fishing-report...ng-current.aspx You will find that report also contains links to tackle shops and guide services that provide the info. Hope you find this helpful. Keep doing your homework and networking until you are satisfied that you have enough info and options for the time you will have. Lastly, remember to post reports of your successes on this Forum. Good luck, Bill

Greetings~ Recently, I emailed Phil to inquire how I could more efficiently track specific categories and topics. He replied that he was sure there were ways to do it, but couldn't put his mouse on it at that moment. I did find it by using the HELP link, then clicking on "email notification of new messages". I'm sure many of us use the email notification for our posts in order to receive responses when we participate in a topic, but there are other options you might find additionally helpful. Here is the content of that "help" topic: This board can notify you when a new reply is added to a topic. Many users find this useful to keep up to date on topics without the need to view the board to check for new messages. There are three ways to subscribe to a topic: Click the 'Track This Topic' link at the top of the topic that you wish to track On the posting screen when replying to or creating a topic, check the 'Enable email notification of replies?' checkbox From the E-Mail settings section of your User CP (My Controls) check the 'Enable Email Notification by default?' option, this will automatically subscribe you to any topic that you make a reply to Please note that to avoid multiple emails being sent to your email address, you will only get one e-mail for each topic you are subscribed to until the next time you visit the board. You are also able to subscribe to each individual forum on the board, to be notified when a new topic is created in that particular forum. To enable this, click the 'Subscribe to this forum' link at the bottom of the forum that you wish to subscribe to. To unsubscribe from any forums or topics that you are subscribed to - just go to the 'Subscriptions' section of 'My Controls' and you can do this from there. Hope some of you find this helpful. Bill

polock, The timing for Stripers has many variables including weather, water, spawning time, etc. How about an idea of the region you usually fish or the specific fishery you want to fish and I'll do my best to help? Also, how far you are willing to travel to hunt Stripers and what type of boat, if any, you own (makes a big difference on access in most fisheries)? Bill

Zach~ Sorry for the late reply, I have something dorked up in my notification settings. You didn't mention if you were trying to fish for trout way up in the small part of the tailrace, or for Stripers on the larger water. HHC was right, a change of leader is going to be necessary, but without more info on the fly's size and weight/bulk it is difficult to offer well-founded suggestions. Also, what line weight is the rod and whether a floating or sinking/sink-tip line? What distance do you need to cast it? Fill in some of these details (photo?) and I'm sure you'll get some helpful feedback. Bill

Jim Murphy wrote...... "Fly fishermen are as much to blame for this as bait and conventional tackle fishermen." and, Why should we, those who care about the areas we fish, freely give this information out? Jim~ There is no doubt you were still hot under the collar from having to pick up all those beer cans, and it is frustrating to have a nice "honey hole" that isn't fished by a lot of folks get trashed by littering bums. However, I totally disagree with you that fly fishermen are as much to blame for littering our streams as other fishermen. You know that I have been part of the fly fishing fraternity for many years, and I can honestly say I have never observed even one fly fisherman intentionally or unintentionally leaving trash behind on the river bank anywhere in the country. I'm sure it happens some times, but it would be extremely rare. Your comment appeared very convicting toward your fellow fly fishermen. This should never be construed that fly fishermen are somehow better people, but I think most fly fishermen would agree that they generally have a better understanding, respect and appreciation for the outdoor resources than the average fishermen that you encounter along the banks of Ozarks streams. As you explained in your disgust, you took the time to pick up the discarded leftovers, which I applaud. I have also seen countless fly fishermen and paddlers do the same "trash collection" over the years. It would only be right to recognize other respectful conventional tackle fishermen and paddlers for their conservation efforts, too. When I think of fishermen that notoriously trash our stream banks, Spring White Bass fishing immediately comes to mind. Countless times in MO, AR and OK I have seen bank fishermen leave behind all kinds of trash, and yes I have carried out my share, too. These enemies of our beautiful Ozarks have no respect for the resources, and don't stop adversely impacting our resources with just their litter. I've seen many of them take more than their legal limits of fish, and some proudly hold up strings of shorter-than-legal, out-of-season smallmouth. I've even asked several of them if they're from the area or far from home, and they are nearly always close to home. It's very rare to have good cell phone signal in a river valley, or to get back to the vehicle in time to even attempt to notify the MDC folks. Why should you share some fishing spots with others? First of all, remember that you work in a fly shop that caters to helping folks get started successfully in the sport. It is many times a precarious judgment call as to who you tell and with how much specific detail. I don't reveal all my spots for a variety of reasons, including private property, sensitivity to overfishing, and respect to someone who shares a special place with me. I try to educate fellow fishermen to be resourceful by using a variety of maps, satellite images, and networking with a variety of others they can learn from. This includes online Forums. Remember, too, that over the years you and I and about all other fishermen have at times been the benefactor of "freely given" information on fishing locations. Others have taken chances on us with the hope they were making a good decision to share their fishing spots. We can't play "secret agent" in all situations, though we should use wise discretion. Lastly, my intention for this Forum topic was not for prying info out of unwilling folks but to bring greater general awareness of what fishery opportunities are out there that harbor Striped, Hybrid and White Bass. It appears to me that we are making some progress in that regard. As fishermen, we must always remember that information is and always will be a "give and take" issue. That is one great factor that makes our sport so much fun. Bill

Tightlines~ Many fly fishers still use jig patterns for White Bass, but I carry some and rarely use them. Before the popularity of the Clouser Minnow caught on in this area, jigs were the most popular. You can still get lots of strikes on them, but my issue has been that it has always been difficult or impossible to find jig hooks in sizes 8 and 6 that are strong enough to consistently hook and hold large White Bass, which means Hybrids and Stripers are out of the question. The inverted (up-riding hook like a jig), lead-eyed deep minnow style pattern is just a very consistent and durable producer for catching these fish. I tie them in many sizes (size 8 to 4/0...and 1.5" to 8" long), materials (some with traditional bucktail but more of them with synthetic material), densities (from very sparse neutral colors for clear water to very heavily dressed bright colors for very murky water), and colors, so you can tie a great selection of flies within the same basic style of fly. I do tie and carry other patterns and agree that Jim Murphy's suggestions are excellent, too. When we started catching larger Stripers and Hybrids (in the 10#+ category), we began having a few issues with not getting a good hook set, even with the best hooks available. Subsequent research and discussion with some friends that have caught lots of large Stripers on flies indicated that down-riding hooks provide a better overall hookup ratio on fish with tough boney mouths. Overall, you will find that the toughest aspect of catching these fish is finding them. So, I keep the flies reasonably simple most of the time and concentrate on learning more about finding the fish by networking with as many folks as I can find that are knowledgable and willing to share info, in addition to my own experience. Hope some of this is helpful. Bill

Randall~ Sorry I missed your post. The tailwater below both Bagnell and Truman can be red hot when you time it right. As you know, that is big water when they are releasing strong flows. It would seem to be potentially frustrating to try to stand among a bunch of other fishermen along the bank and attempt to cast and retrieve flies. However, for either of those fisheries I would definitely suggest the use of a power boat or maybe a kayak to fish a little ways downstream away from the crowd. Most of those fish like to hold just off the edge of a current line particularly in deep eddies. You will find concentrations of them more commonly in that type water even though you might find them in the faster current at times. I assure you that it isn't necessary to fish up close to the dam to find concentrations of fish. I would also explore the tributaries that feed into those large river basins, too. From where you live, there are numerous fisheries with White Bass that are accessible in the spring thru fall, however for the two larger cousins the opportunities are fewer. Missouri -- I will outline several for you below, but during the winter you have an excellent fishery at the Thomas Hill Res. warmwater discharge, which contains both Whites and Hybrids as well as all the usual lake species. LOZ -- tributaries in the Spring, like the Gravois and Big and Little Niangua. Truman -- virtually all the free-flowing tributaries in the spring, but particularly the Sac, Deepwater, Pomme De Terre and Osage arms. Mark Twain -- again, the free-flowing tributaries in the spring. Illinois -- there are several fisheries within your 2 hour driving preference. The IL DNR has an excellent website with fairly good details about the individual fisheries. Some have just Whites, but some have all 3 species. There are also a few that have power plants with warmwater discharges, that are good in the winter months. (eg-- Baldwin Lake) Tackle. Of all the places listed above, the largest tackle needed would be on the tailwaters of Bagnell and Truman, due to the river and fish size. For those, I would suggest an 8 wt. rod with a very fast tip and a quality reel with at least 150 yds. of 20# backing. A 15' type 3 sink-tip fly line is the most useful, with a short leader not exceeding 4'. For most of the other places, a fast tip 7 wt. rod would be very adequate, and not too heavy for your White Bass fishing, though most folks prefer a 6 wt. for stream fishing in the Spring. A 7 is your best all-around rod, until you get into larger fish (over 10# Hybrids and Stripers) and windy conditions. If you want some specific brand and model info, let me know. Flies are relatively simple. The Clouser Deep Minnow pattern is the most popular fly pattern, though several others are very good. The Clouser is very simple to tie, sinks quickly and presents an effective baitfish profile that is very effective. For clear to slightly dingy water, I usually stick with colors like gray/white, blue/white, olive/cream; whereas, in murky to very murky water I use chartreuse/white or chartreuse/orange for additional visibility. Sizes I will suggest by length, not hook size, since the size of the baitfish is the key. For Whites, a good size range is 2 - 3.5", for Hybrids and Stripers up to about 10# a good range is 3-5", and if you're looking for the big boys flies from 4 to 8" need to be carried. All the above is certainly a broad-brush overview, so please let me know what further questions you have. It's important, too, to have a source(s) for your tackle and fly materials that understand this specialty niche' of our sport, so I would be happy to suggest some good folks for that when the time comes, if you request. Hope you find this helpful. Bill

Thanks for the response and requested info. I'll definitely give them a call, soon. I'm sure others will note this contact#, too. BB

For the state of KS to allow this sucks. It becomes Oklahoma's problem just a short distance downstream. Someone from OK needs to get on that situation. The Spring River is a beautiful resource and it needs to stay that way. Russ, there must be a state Environmental Quality agency that can be contacted. I wonder if the MAKO Flyfishers club in Joplin is proactive in conservation matters? If they're not, this is a good opportunity to start.

Springfield MO. The driving sleet has finally subsided in our part of Springfield, and from looking at the radar it appears to have moved out. Weird thing though, the radar has shown only snow all day (which we had early) but has never shown any sleet or F____ rain. But, the reality is that it sleeted for hours this evening. Very ugly. Temp has been holding at 32 for several hours, too. Wind speed is currently 24 mph, with 32 mph gusts. Not Good. FYI....for you guys that don't have your city/state identified on your sidebar profile, we don't have any way of knowing "where" you are when you say "here".

SIO3, The 417 number you were given is their corporate office in Springfield, about a mile from my house. They were no help, except to provide the office # for the Thomas Hill facility. I'd say keep the mining division # you were given. It all seems very odd why they would be so secretive about their facility, but I suppose it is security/terrorism related. My next efforts will include seeking some bait/tackle shop contact info in the area, and looking up the name/# of the local MDC agent for that county. What we need is to get a few guys that fish there regularly to get actively involved with this forum. Anyone out there know of someone that fishes the Thomas Hill discharge area regularly during the winter, that also has a computer? Any help or suggests would be appreciated. Bill

Zach, You've got a deal for Striper fishing on the Lower IL. The hardest part of catching those fish is finding them. So, if you can show me where they are I can help you learn to catch them on a fly rod. Lots of water in Tenkiller Lake right now (7.5' above power pool), so it looks like a good upcoming year for Striper fishing. The very best times on the Lower IL for Stripers is during extreme heat or extreme cold when they are releasing water through Tenkiller Dam. In the winter, the IL river water is warmer than the AR River and in the summer the IL River water is cooler than the AR River. Make sense? If I were you, I would ask your buddy Randy to take you some time soon. Has he sent you any pictures of the fish he's catching? If he's catching them on 3" white jigs, all you need is 3-4" white clouser minnows and a 15'sink-tip #3 sink-rate line on an 8 or 9 weight rod. If you need more help with the tackle, let me know. You're welcome to PM or email, too. Let us know how you do. Bill