gonefishin

FJ80 You the man. Finally the voice of reason. gonefishin

cheetz: I am not a brickwaller you are simply misguided. You have watched way to many Walt Disney Cartoons. Trust me they arent reality; Bambi did not exist. I know what the topic is I was just using a couple of examples of animal population realities. Besides, I didnt bring up the whole "people being god and the unregulated trapping issues" you did; I was only responding to your post. A lot of people think deer used to run and romp all over the place and number in the billions. It simply isn't true. The same goes for quail. I was using them as examples of animal population realities. I am sure there were some Otters in some areas of MO but there are no hard facts proving that their populations were ever very big. Since you want to talk about getting it back like it was lets think about trout. Trout are without a doubt non-native to Missouri. Would you be willing to start a petition to have them removed from the state? I mean they weren't here to start with and have are a slap in the face to your "as close to the way it used to be fantisy". I mean everytime you see one it must really irk you. Are you smoking today? You really should concider puting the Bong down and going out for a breath of fresh air. I never said anything about a conspiracy. I did mention that $$ paly a role in conservation. You are very misguided yet you seem at least somewhat intellegant -- certainly you don't believe that the buck has no bearing on conservation issues, do you? Here is another 'off topic' example for you. Prarie chickens. Missouri was/is not a prarie state yet the MDC implys that prarie chickens once numbered in the billions in Missouri. The plain and simple fact is that while it is true there were some prarie chickens in Mo it simply was not possible for them to have existed in huge numbers here. Prarie Chickens require huge unbroken tracts of natural prarie to support them. Large unbroken tracts like that did and do not exist to any large extent in Missouri therefore it was not possible for them to exist here in large populations. Yet the MDC implys they were extremely numberous and get people like you all worked up and emotional about "Re-Storing" them. Why do they do this? Could it have anything to do with the fact that they get Fed bucks for the restoration of the birds and land? HMmmmm. With all that being said, I want to take this time to say I don't want to argue all these issues. I simply want to know what people think the impact of Otters is on the fishing in MO. Especially I want to know if they think Otters are positive or negative to the SMB fishery. gonefishin vonreed: Thanks this is the kind of information I am looking for. gonefishin

There may be some truth to what you say AL. I have also heard that people who rent to float trippers and the floaters intentially widen and deepen the riffles to make easier passage. There may be some of that going on too. I admit that speeds should be limited of course I think they should be limited on lakes too. The wakes that big powerful boats make can be terrible. I am 46 years old and I have RA. Physical limitations keep me from walking up and down river banks like I used to and from doing much wade fishing. The only way I can enjoy the shallower rivers is in a jet boat. Of course I can't afford one so I don't own one and have to wait until someone who does invites me to go with them. I do have a couple of questions about this issue. Because I have RA should I be kept from enjoying the outdoors? Becasue I suffer a disease should I be confined to the local handicapped dock? Or should I just stay home? How would you address the issue?

Heh heh cheetz. I knew what your opinion was. I was wondering what other people thought. I agree with you to some extent about man playing god and you are right "we cant go back to the way it was" We cant even get close unless we want to blow out all the dams, re-route the Missouri river again, plow out all the roads, remove all the bridges and depopulate the enviroment. Man is here and here he will stay. Man has made many changes and it is now up to man to figure out how to deal with the issues. Reducing human population is probably a good goal but the problem with that is only the interested people would do so and soon the 'interested' people would be the extreme minority so it wouldnt matter anyway. I don't have anything against Otters one way or the other but I am interested in knowing what others think and how they Otters are impacting the enviroment. As to greed and unregulated trapping I think perhaps you should do some in depth study on the subject. For example deer are way more populated now than they have ever been known to be and quail populations soared when farmers started putting in hedge rows and borders around their fields. Quail populations did not dwindle because of hunting pressure they dwindled because of pesticides and habatat destruction. It is really easy to be emotional and say this is the way it was or that is the way it was or this is how it should be only to find that the reality may be/was vastly different. From what I have read I believe that is the case here. Otters never had much of an historical impact on the enviroment in Missouri because there populations were rather small. I think they were Introduced rather than 'Re-Introduced as you put it'. I believe the thing that really got Otters 'Introduced' in Missouri was Fed $$. I believe that is the reality.

Flyingeagle: You are right. There appears to be those that believe "if we only fix this one problem everything will be allright" when it is obvious there are many factors contributing to the problem. I firmly believe there are problems that are more in need of focusing on than the occasional gigger who may or may not kill a bronze back accidentally or on purpose. Pollution for one. Bud

The more I read about this the more inclined I am to keep my vote no change. I dont really see how this can be enforced without taking away a lot of other legal activities. For example a really dedicated fly fisherman who wants match the hatch gets out his little net and kicks the bottom to get a sample could be cited for streambed destruction, boaters could be cited for streambed destruction, wadeing would obviously have to be outlawed, the dam would have to be shut down, fossil hunters and rock hounds would have to be outlawed and on and on. There would have to be parameters and I just don't see how it could be done without inadvertently taking away a lot of other legal activities.

I am curious how people feel about the introduction of Otters and how it has impacted fishing in Missouri or at least on your homewaters. The MDC admits it was caught off guard by how fast the populations of Otters increased. Do you think it was a favorable introduction or a mistake. Bud

Heh heh js. I thought I might get by with that one but I should have known I could count oun you to be the one to catch it. I have to agree those exploding racoons are dangerous. Probably a gas pressure build up problem induced by an excess ingestion of crawdad pichers. Maybe I should submit a sample to MDC for their imput. What do you think. I had a predator problem with my chickens. They were dieing before they were fully grown. When I asked thee MDC what they thought they asked me if I had submitted a soil sample to the extension office. So I did. The extension office processed the soil sample and told me the problem was that I wasnt planting my chickens deep enough. MDC said "See, it isnt a predator problem at all". I agree it could be a good topic and I think one that should be discussed. Bud

Back in the 70's I used to hunt coons a lot. I got as high as the mid $70 range for good coon furs. Of course I couldnt get that from the local fur buyer. I had to ship them to get those prices and I wasnt the only one doing it. They sure dont bring that now, more like mid teens. You are right it is the anti fur crowd who caused teh declnine. It is interesting to note that rabies and distemper are becoming problematic again. Quail hunting was my favorite fall and winter past time for many years. I can't bring myself to hunt them now. Predators are a big problem for bird populations. One of the biggest predators of quail is stray house cats. There are millions of house cats that have been dumped. A house cat will kill a whole covey of quail and walk off and leave them, I have seen it happen. Loss of habitat is another big problem.

Hold on guys. I didn't accuse anyone of anything. I just asked a question. I don't mind tips on lures and such if this is honestly a tip then cool. On the other hand I dont want to see this site get ate up by the spammers so if that is what it is then I would just as soon not see it.

I agree that people should not be allowed to deplete a resource. I also believe that changes should be made incrementally and rationaly not drastically and emotionally. I have a hard time believing that giggers are any harder on SMB populations than pollution, introduction of predators such as otters or other fish species and destruction of habitat (construction and 4 wheelers). I think the introduction of Otters and exploding Racoon populations (people don't keep their numbers down by hunting them like they used to) are very hard on crawdad populations which in turn is hard on SMB populations. I think there are other problems that cause a lot more damage to the SMB populations than the giggers are doing. If the giggers were so damaging to the resources I really can't see why the MDC would increase the season length. It just looks to me like the giggers are getting a bad rap. I have not studied much on it but it seems quiet a stretch to say jet boats are more damaging to streams than any other motorized propulsion system.

Hi KsCat. What is a Catman doing in a bass tourney? I used to live in KS. I fished a lot in the Neosho around the Iola area. I cant give you a lot of advice on Pomme. Last time I fished Pomme early in the year like that I caught a lot of small mouths. Light lines, small baits. Finnesse presentations.

I know the proposed jet boat ban is not statewide.............at this point. When the seatbelt law was proposed it was promised that law enforcement would never be able to stop people just to check for a possible seatbelt violation either. How long did that last? The road to pergatory has always been paved with good intentions so it is prudent to be careful what is being asked for and intentions should be carefully examined becasue the good intention may come to pass and may not be exactly what was initally intended. Just as happened with the above mentioned example of seat belt laws. I am not a gig fisherman, nor am I a hardcore fly fisherman, I rarely wade when fishing, I never noodle (hand fish) I don't snagg for spoonbill anymore, I don't bow fish and I don't specifically target gar, carp, stripers or sharks. I do however support other peoples rights to pursue these sports. Some of the above I dont do because I dont want to and some I am physically unable to do but one of these days I might want to try something new and it would be a sad day if I wasn't able to because it had been outlawed out of hand. I figure there are enough people attacking our rights to fish and enough threats to fishing habitat (pollution, constructon on our lakes and streams ect) to keep us busy without us fishermen attacking each other because of the particular way we pursue the sport. If we continue fighting among ourselves (Ban gigging, ban jet boats, make fishing C&R only, ban all forms of fishing except my preferred method, ban bait fishing, allow all the float trips that want to go and build malls on the river/lake with no regards to the enviroment because we are making lots of money and so on) it won't be long before the only way we will be able to enjoy the sport of fishing will be on video games. I'll get off my soap box now. gonefishin'

Isn't this just spam???

This post gets to the very heart of what we, or at least I, have been concerned with in this debate. The whole point is there are some who want an outright ban on gigging and jetboats. These few are willing to take a tactic proven by the anti-gunners which is for a minority of people to make themselves seem a larger group than they are and to purpose seemingly innocent changes in a regulation (to make it better for everyone) when the whole intention from the start is to do away with a regulation these few don't like. CWF appears to want jet boats done away with so I have a question for him. I have never been a gigger but, say I bought a jet boat back when Bass Pro was pushing them and paid nearly 10 grand for that boat. If Jet boats are to be banned there obviously will be no re-sale value for them so are you going to give my money back? How bout the money of all the other people who own jet boats that would be banned just because you don't like them? In light of your post I can see why Forsythian said he would fight tooth and nail for his rights. People like you leave him no choice he has to fight dirty becasue people like you are. gonefishin PS: thanks for being so instrumental in getting the trout limit lowered.

If there aint a season there should be / Howitizer / Lotsa Meat Tendrizer

Dang! You must lead a charmed life. I had my licence (and my creel) checked at least half a dozen times last year alone. I have been fishing for more than 40 years and I guarentee I have been checked at least 100 times. Maybe I just look like a law breaker. :ph34r:

How do Otters fit into all of this? Harmful to the fishery because they eat SMB with no regards to limits or size? There are a lot of people who say Otters are causing the decline in record size SMB as well as SMB populations in general. Should they (Otters)be banished from streams that have populations of SMB. If the MDC did make certain areas trophy areas how would the Otter issue be handled?

Just wndering if they, the MDC, are stocking to many trout for the system to handle why did they lower the limit?

Well there was this one time I went fishing that I seen these people back in ........wait....this is a family oriented website so I cant tell that story. :0 One of the funniest things I seen was when I was a kid fishing with my family. My mom cast by a tree and her line went over a limb and wrapped around it. The lure was swinging about 6 inches above the water. A bass that weighed about 1.5 lb jumped out of the water and grabbed the lure. So then there was a lure with a bass on it swinging about 6 inches above the water. I was having a good laugh and asked her what she was going to do about it. She said she wasnt going to do anything about it, I was. That took some of the humor out of the situation. I wonder if retrieving flying bass is legal in this state.

I think you are probably observed more than you think during those 50 to 60 days. Speaking for myself, when I am fishing/hunting I am usually after fish or game animals not conservation agents. Anyway at times when I just know I am all alone I have been startled by gamewardens when they walk up and ask for my licence or how the fishing is ect. What I am trying to say is I think conservation agents see more than a person realizes - I dont think most agents want to molest your fishing or hunting so they choose if/when to approach or confront a person. OH NO!!! Now the giggers are beer can killers! When and where is it all going to end? Have they no shame. <---- thats a joke Seriously I don't think there should be a limit on the number of beer/pop cans a person can gig. The more the better in my opinion.

I dont know much about the electric stuff but, I do build an occasional acoustic guitar, mandolin and/or dulcimer. gonefishin

Sorry guys but I voted no change...for now. Not because I agree with shuffling but because there were no parameters. What actually constitutes shuffling? It seems to me that just walking in the water disturbes the bottom so does that mean a person who is wade fishing is also a shuffler? Could implementing this as a law actually outlaw all wade fishing in Taney? Again I am sorry but until some parameters are established defining exactly what constitutes shuffling my vote remains no change.

No change