gonefishin

Quiet a hot topic for sure. I like hot topics, I like the debate (I might learn something) I dont like it when it gets down to name calling. When it gets down to name calling it loses its debate status and becomes a senceless brawl. Someonw mentioned that this was a "disagreement between users". To an extent I agree with that but, as usual there are exceptions. I am an exception this time. I am not a gigger. I have never gigged a fish, frog or anything else in my life. So why am I in this debate? Because I think some people are unjustly accusing giggers of being the root of all evil on Missouris streams. I believe our time would be better spent addressing more serious problems with our streams than trying to start a hate group against giggers. What are some of the problems I am talking about? -people who discard their old fishing line in our streams/lakes -people who throw trash, batteries, old tires and other pollutants in our streams/lakes -Warning! Pregnant women sould not eat bass in any quantity from any water in Missouri because lead contamination could damage your developing baby -Erosion filling up our streams -Dont eat carp/suckers from certain streams/rivers/lakes because pollutant contamination of the fish make it unhealthy for you These issues and more are serious and are in need of our attention. More so than discriminating against a small group of people who are pursuing a legal sport in the state.

I am sorry, I just don't buy the arguments being made against gigging. First if it is so damaging why does the fishing here in Missouri just keep getting better? Second I notice that the people arguing against gigging have to resort to derogatory sterotyping people Ya kno about us hillbilly (aka rednecks) marrying our cousins ect. People who have to resort to that type of arguing don't really have anything to say they are only taking cheap pot shots because they dont have anything interesting much less important to say. The simple fact is there are a few people out there who dont like to share the water with people who gig because they dont like it and they are willing to do anything in their power to get the giggers off "their water". Tell you what though, I will support your dislike of gigging if you will support a couple of my pet peeves. First I don't like canoers. I think float trips should be banned because the float trippers pollute the fishing waters with trash and human excretement as well as disturb the bottom when wading (like shufflers). They make no end of noise, get intoxicated, throw their cigarette butts and beer cans in the water and in short make a general nusiance of their selves and worse yet they get in the way of my fishing and outdoor pleasure, I like peace and quiet when I am fishing. Second I dont like boats that use fossil fuels to power them. They are noisy, pollute the waters and I have seen fish that have been crippled and/or killed when the prop hit them. I have not noticed any smart boat props out there that avoid hitting record size Small Mouths. The wakes caused by power boats also cause erosion of the banks on our streams and lakes. This certainly is not any good for our lakes, streams and fish populations. Who all is willing to sign the petition to have these pursits which are damaging to our streams, lakes and fish populations stopped?

Seems to me if we are willing to get rid of the giggers because they are no help to the SMB populations we should also be willing to get rid of the floaters because they sure dont help either. And then of course we have to figure out what to do about the bait fishermen (Bluegill, catfish crappie ect) who occasionally catch a SMB accidentally. Then we would have to figure out what to do about the White Bass, Crappie Largemouth Bass fishermen who occasionally catch a Small Mouth because they sure dont help either....... The point is once certain groups of people are targeted to dislike then there is no end in sight. There will always be a reason to dislilke some group or another. Best thing to do is live and let live. If there are problems with a few people in a certain area then the MDC should be informed and the informer should let the MDC handle it and go on about his/her business. I dont gig but I have known a lot of people who gig/grab/fish for suckers. Most of them wouldnt give a nickle for a Bass or Trout or anyother fish that swims. They want suckers period. I cant deny there are always exceptions but they are just that.

I agree. The mysterious "Glen Sims" and his account of the Small Mouth Carnage seems about as believeable as the people who will swear on a stack of bibles and under the threat of eternal damnation "that so and so went diving at X Dam and would never go again because they seen "Man Eating Catfish" down there." You are ablsolutly correct in your assesment of how people would go about doing away with the sport all together. I am not a gigger but I do support the sport.

I don't agree with the licence thing. I believe people 'Know' how to act right they just dont think they have to. We don't need to have a class to licence people who act right we need to mark people who dont. We need a branding iron to tatoo their forehead with so the rest of know the person we are facing is an rude A$*#le who doesn't act right in public. Maybe even get MDC to not issue licences to anyone who has been branded. What do you think? I do agree the Brown Trout Rule being discussed would be a good thing.

Food for thought........ I think all of us need to remember one of the main reasons we have such a great fishery in Missouri is because there are so many people involved in fishing. The state spends a lot of money on outdoor sports because they make a lot of money from licence and equipment sales. If we allow the selectively removal of certain fishermen giggers today, grabbers tomorrow, bait fishermen with a Hills Brothers can full of worms next week and catfishing next month, bow fishermen next year and so on. Eventually there will be fewer people participating in the sport and the revenues will start dropping, the state will stop spending as much money and in the end all fishing will suffer and we will discover that all we have done is hurt ourselves.

js: You are a riot. I would love to see that reality show....go for it. The officer I am talking about was not out to get me. He was just way over the top on the gung ho business. As I said I was not the only land owner to have a run in with him. He believed that landowners should have to follow the same rules on their property as non-landowners had to follow. Buying licences to fish in private stocked ponds ect. This put him in direct confrontation with landowners. His problem wasn't that his heart wasnt in the right place, it was in enemy identification. He spent so much time fighting with landowners that he lost track of the serious violaters. I agree with you about the target identification. That is why I never catch brown trout when fishing for rainbows or Crappie when fishing for Bass. Just kidding, seriously I do agree but I also know that an occasional accident will happen especially with younger people learning the sport or people who maybe dont see quiet as well as others; I see no reason to hang them for the offense. If they are specifically targeting game fish and are caught with a boat load of game fish then it is a different story. My point is moderation. I believe there are a few bad eggs out there and a few radicals but that by and large most people are trying to do things right and just enjoy fishing. If a person is seen repeatedly doing something wrong or is doing something dangerous then I agree the law should be immediatly notified but, if a person simply makes a mistake or becasue they like to eat suckers and someone else dont there is no reason to get out the tar and feathers.

Our "Me First before Anyone Else" society has became downright disgusting. What happened to everyone has rights to enjoy fishing or whatever. I think perhaps the attitudes you all are talking about started in commercialized sports. Back when I was a kid it was completly unacceptable to belittle or be rude to the opposing team. It was really pretty basic, we were taught to respect them because if they werent there then there would be no one to play so we wouldn't be there either. I believe fishing is no different. I need to respect everyones right to fish wether I agree with it or not. There are a lot of fishermen out there and the biggest part of them pay their dues to the state by purchasing licences and equipment. In turn the states spends money on the fishery because the state wants to keep the money coming in. Without 'those other people' fishing there would be less bucks and the fishery would not be what it is now. So it goes right back to the basic thing I learned in school. I better respect the opposing team because without them we all lose out.

My memories of fishing only go back 40+ years. Keep in mind, the MDC didnt say specifically suckers...they said Rough fish. Drum, Buffolo, Bighead Carp, Grass Carp, ect were all included in the Rough Fish catagory. I read this in Missouri Conversation Magazine. I agree. If managed properly a few agents whos only job is to target problem areas would be a good thing. Several years ago I was fishing with my family on my own property and we were checked by a fish and game commision officer. At first I didn't mind that he was on my property checking us. He then proceeded to check all my equipment and make himself a general pain in the butt. When I walked up the bank with him so he could "Search my truck...(said he didnt need a warrent because he had probable cause... I think probable cause was the name he gave his gun) I seen that he had driven right through the middle of my new stand of corn which killed a bunch of it. After searching my truck for "probable cause" he had cited me because my wife didn't have a licence (?? still dont understand how he cited me for something my wife was doing, personal property owners do not need licences on their own land anyway). And he cited me because there was an old wooden boat there which he had noticed that did not have numbers properly displayed on it. Again this was on personal property so the boat did not even need numbers not to mention the fact that it had been there when I bought the property and had never been used but, my kids were playing in it so........... ANyway he then proceeded to make a big loop through my field even killing more corn as he left. Some would say that this is fine....the place to settle it is in court. There are certain problems with that theory. First how do I settle dead corn? Second I had two choices; pay the fines or fight it. I opted to fight and subsuquently won. Of course the attorney cost me $1400. Who knows what the loss was to my corn crop. In order to get the citations dropped I had to bring suit against him and the state for destruction of property. Some probably don't believe this story but it is true and further it went through the court system so it is on record. After a couple of years of abuse by this officer and more than a few lawsuits brought against him and the state, he was finally dismissed as an enforcement officer. He still works for the conservation department, just not as an officer. The sad part is he actually thought he was doing good for conservation. The problem is he was just too radical. The moral of this story is it is not necessairly a good thing to be so unyielding in personal beliefs that other people get hurt by it and it is certainly not a good idea to abuse the system to get ones own way in a matter.

Cool. I have never been to the Bahamas. What are your plans when coming to LT?

It seems about normal to me that there are a few people who know better than anyone else what, how and where to do anything and if the people who dont agree with them the they are perfectly willing to use (read abuse) the law to try to enforce their beliefs. Of course these same people are without sin; they have never done anything wrong on purpose or accidentally. Reminds me of the people in Peta, they are perfect too. For example take the above where Bison was mentioned. Come on. Bison were hunted commercially. Not only were they hunted commercialy but they were specifically targeted for extermination. Same with Wolves, Grizzly and Mountain Lions. Not quiet the same as sucker grabbing/gigging is it. And of course there is Arkansas's abundance of giant Red Horse. I think that is great but, personally I would rather see large game fish. According to MDC there are way to many rough fish in our lakes and streams so they are competing for food and habitat with the game fish. The reason the season was extended and the sport encouraged is an attempt to balance the ratio of rough fish to game fish. I don't doubt that there are some out there who would target Bass or some other game fish if they could however, I dont think it is probable. It is probably possible that a bass could be gigged/grabbed once in a while but I don't believe they are gigged/grabbed in mass as some people try to indicate. I have seen a lot of suckers in open/shallow water where they could be gigged/grabbed. Not so with bass. It isnt often that I see bass in shallow/open water. They (Bass) are usually in the brush, rocks or moss or if in open water they are deep where they can't be seen. I have never been gigging or grabbing for suckers but, I dont mind sharing the water with people who do. More power to them in my opinion. I think the thing that is really going on here is intolerance. It is sad but there are a few fishermen who don't want to share the water with people who dont do as they do or believe as they believe. These people are willing to do whatever they need to do to get their way.

Let me know about those whites. I may come over that way and try to get some. Grand Caymen huh. That is way cool!! I hear there is some really awesome fishing down that way. Was you really down there fishing or was you watching on TV and dreaming?

No. It is not always easy to say. I dont like paying more taxes so I dont like to see a situation where more officers need to be hired. However if a problem is so bad that it needs policed then we need to hire more law enforcement officials, not have local citizens police it. I am not an officer however, my mom, two of my uncles and one brother either are or are retired. One of the problems with having local citizen police a problem is that only the super zealous are the ones doing the policing. Another problem is when someone local wants to break a law they simply call an agent and send him somewhere where nothing is going on. Another is when someone wants to protect a certain area or simply don't like what someone is doing they simply call enforcement officers and swear that person was doing something wrong so it forces a confrontation between law enforcement and the person they want out of their way. Either of these issues take enforcement officers away from where they need to be. I am not saying people should not call enforcement, they should but only when they know for certain what they are talking about. Like in Phils example of the Duck hunters. That was/is a dangerous situation that needs attention. In the case of if someone might have a fish that is slightly out of slot, how does a person really know without confronting them so the fish can be physically measured. Or if someone is gigging and someone thinks that person might have an illegal fish in the basket-how does someone know without confrontation? The law enforcement officers in my family knew where trouble spots were. They knew where they needed to be to be most effective. I seriously doubt our conversation officers need us to tell them what to do and where to do it. They are in the field most everyday and should know better than any of us where they need to be, when they need to be there and what they need to be doing. Just my 2 cents worth.

My opinion. The people who are putting Branson Landing up are simply exploiting a natural resourse that we, the fishermen and taxpayers have paid to build and maintain. They will do more to harm the fish and fishing on Taney than all the illegal fishermen put together. The difference is they will make money, and the state will make money - so its ok.

I should clairify myself on the confisication of property. What I mean is the confisication of property before a person is found guilty of a crime. Once a person is found guilty---no problem, they get what they asked for. Also I should mention I am not a gigger. I have never gigged a fish in my life and wouldn't have the first idea how to go about it. I do know, as MoCarp mentioned, it is an old Ozark tradition. On the whole it doesn't appear to have hurt the fishing any. In fact I recently read in Mo Conversation Magazine that gigging and the removal of rough fish actually helps sport fishing. No kidding on the ducks?!?!? I have done a little duck hunting. I was hunting once in a boat and just the chop made it hard to hit anything, I can't imagine shooting at ducks at anything over a bare idle. That is a bit of an overstatement, I guess I can imagine shooting at them what I can't imagine is actually hitting them. Boats, guns and alcohol is a dangerous combination and so I have to agree that is a dangerous situation and they need to be immediatly stopped. I am glad this discussion we are having is about a non-dangerous sport where if someone accidentally, or purposly, takes an illegal fish it isn't an emergency where someones life is in danger. At least it is as long as we can refrain from having vigilante fishermen patroling and protecting their favorite fishing holes from giggers, people other than trophy fishermen or whoever else they don't like sharing the water with.

Cool. A hot topic. Looks like people are getting kind of excited about this one. I don't like the idea of vigilante fishermen patroling their favorite bass or trout waters. For one thing I don't like the idea of having people spying on me and second there is way to much potential for abuse of people pursing legal sport because someone doesn't like them being on their favorite fishing hole for (X) fish. I also dont like the idea of confiscating property. Anyone who reads up on this will find that it often leads to serious abuse. Remember when they were warning people not to drive luxery cars across a certain state because the odds of it being confiscated by law enforcement was out of hand. These are not good ideas. We dont live in a police state --If we think there needs to be more enforcement we need to hire more enforcement officers to police the waters. The rest of us need to live and let live and simply enjoy fishing.

I dont know where you was fishing on the rock but I have caught a lot of channels there however I am usually after Flathead so the channels are accidental. I know some people who fish for channels around Shell Knob. I usually fish for Flathead around Viola. I use live or fresh cut bait for Flats. If I were to go for channels I would use a prepared bait (Bee Jay), worms or cut shad. In general I have found less weight is better for channel cat. Good Luck Bud

That would save some legwork which would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Bud

Hey RT: Thanks for the tip. I will give them a try. Bud

Well, I dont expect anyone to give me the location of their favorite super secret fishin hole. I just wondered where some of the locally known places to go are. Thought it might save me some trial and error in hunting them down. Bud

What kind of fly do you use to entice a carp into biting it? Maybe chum with corn and use yellow foam or something? Bud

Phil: You gotta watch out if you go after those big cats. It is habit forming. What kind of cats do you want to focus on? I assume when you talk about big cats you mean Flats or Blues? You have to target different areas and use different baits depending on the kind of cat you want. I know a few places to get into big ones of both kinds. I would be happy to take you after some if you want to give them a shot. Bud

Hello and welcome macfish. Like you I am mostely a bank fisherman and will fish for just about anything that swims. I have even fished for Gar a few times. There are a lot of good people here and some useful information. One thing though you gotta watchout for that MOcarp guy. He will have you fishing for those forign euro carps if you aint careful Hope you enjoy it here. Bud

Those 50 ft rules have always bothered me too. I can understand where they could keep you from fishing from their property (their dock) if they wanted but how do they keep you from fishing anywhere you want on the lake once you are on the water? Of course it goes without saying that a person would have to be courteous of boaters going in and out of the dock........

Never heard of them-deboners I mean. I would like to know more about them though. I have a friend who works in the food industry he sells whole boneless trout. !?!? Whole boneless trout - isnt that a conundrum. Bud