hank franklin

One detail in the photo that would make you rethink your guess.

If I was strictly wading I'd go up to one of the two slabs above Mint Spring. I forget their names, they're on county roads with parking. There are slabs above there too, been awhile since I been there. If you're going to Mint, bring the canoe. It's not real good wading around there as I recall. You could paddle upstream a ways if I remember right.

I'd be interested to hear how you do. I've been above Mint Spring three times in the past couple years and really didn't catch much of anything. Smallies, spots and largemouth, not many of any. I like the water up there but so far it hasn't really produced.

Okay, time to see if there's anyone out there as gravel-bar obsessed as I. Photo was taken Sunday morning on an Ozark gravel bar. Who knows where?

The spots are thick until at least 19 bridge. As I've said in another thread, it's amazing how quickly it happened. In my experience you need to float the Bourbeuse either in spring or after a little push of rain. You don't want a big rain because that can turn the river muddy. Just a little push to give a bit more "gurgle" to the flowing sections. Though the Bourbeuse is my home stream I too don't like it during the slow and slack water of summer. Time to go elsewhere. And while I still think the river has big smallies in it, the spotteds in many ways truly have ruined the river. Sad.

Al, my "campfire opinion" if you will (admittedly anecdotal but based on 30+ years of running around the Bourbeuse) is that the river really hasn't changed much, at least above Mayer's Landing or Reiker's Ford. Melody Lake is the only large development I'm aware of in the last generation. It's likely that land use practices have improved, due in large part in my opinion to the Soil and Water District efforts, as well as CRP and other such. The Clean Water Act has helped too (Red Oak Creek for example was a sewage wash for years but will be cleaned up considerably with the new Owensville sewage treatment.) Stream Teams have done their share, etc. I definitely recall more trash in the river when I was a kid. I feel the "elephant in the room" these days may be the effect of ag runoff. I don't know much about it and really haven't seen much research, but I don't think there's much question that the fertilizers and herbicides, pest control etc. used these days are super-powered compared to 30 or so years ago. What effect this may have on water quality, stream habitat, and spotted bass, I have no idea, but my gut feeling is that ag runoff is the thing that HAS changed significantly in the past generation. I wonder if you've heard much discussion in the regulatory community about it. I hear a lot about point source problems in the circles I travel, and a share of grumbling from these folks when it comes to non-point. (To be fair I've also heard some non-point grumbling, these guys saying they're heavily regulated too.) I really don't know where the science is on this, but like I say, if you're sitting around the campfire trying to put your finger on what HAS changed in the past 30 or so years, this might be it.

Al, I hope you put your writing into a book at some point. Your writing and research on this needs to be recorded. I fish the Bourbeuse above Noser's and the Meramec above the park with some regularity. In my experience, spotted bass are dominant above Noser's, really without question. It is amazing frankly how quickly it happened. My experience would bear out the points in your research--the faster cooler water (riffles and chutes) are more apt to hold smallmouth, the more sluggish water is really overrun with spotteds. I would agree that smallmouth are still dominant on the Meramec above the park, but spotteds are frequent. Smallmouth are still king above Maramec Spring though I've caught occasional spotted above 8 bridge as well. So they are getting past the spring at least in some numbers.

Al, I very much appreciate your writing on the spotted bass topic. Very interesting, and very balanced too. Thanks.

My bad, I was thinking of another spot. I haven't been to Laubinger since I was a teenager. It may be like Massey Ford Road, if any of the locals will recall that. Used to go all the way to the river but it doesn't no more.

It looks like what you're calling "Laubinger" is actually Wenkel Ford. Laubinger is not a public access. It's about 11 miles from Wenkel to Peter's Ford, too much for a day trip in my opinion. The Bourbeuse got a bit of rain this past weekend but not enough to make the upper sections floatable in my opinion. If you insist however you might try Mill Rock to Wenkel Ford. Only 7 miles and quite nice water when it's up. While it's probably doable now, I really wouldn't recommend it.

What is your point?

I floated the North Fork on a recent March and I wouldn't have cared if the trout were stocked there or not. In fact I'd have probably preferred they weren't. I enjoyed catching them however. If you have a true "leave no trace ethic," then how can trout possibly fit into that? Their existence is almost completely dependent on the stocking truck. Of course my great-grandpa came from Germany so I'm probably trespassing every time I step foot anywhere.

To be as honest as I can be, I wouldn't care if Missouri stopped managing the streams for trout. In fact maybe they should stop. Keep the trout parks the way they are and if fish escape into the rivers, so be it. But don't stock trout in the rivers. Having said that, I'll try to catch trout if they're there. I guess I'm easy.

I'm with him.

OTF, click on the banner ad immediately above this thread. They'll hook you up. Either that or google Eleven Point Canoe Rental. Tell em Hank sent you.

hoglaw, we're in the same boat. Or similar. I have a Coleman too. Also a hole in the direct middle bottom of the keel. Hole is about the size of two pencil erasers put together. My solution has been to glob on gasket seal on the inside of the hole and then push it out through the bottom just a bit. Then superglue around the edges to seal. Flysmallie gave me a link to a great Coleman patch that I'm going to try once the hole grows beyond what the gasket seal will do. I'm not totally watertight but I'm not sinking either.

Great report, love the pics. Was just on the JF between Alley and Two Rivers. Special place.

Where are you running your jet boat? I'd be surprised if you were above Union. Bourbeuse has definitely been down this year. Unusual in a way because the Meramec for the most part has been above normal.

Thanks Al, appreciate it. I'm certainly not averse to some portages if necessary to enjoy some otherwise fine water. The slippery rocks would make portages treacherous too however. Sounds like a job for a boat other than my Coleman. Maybe someday.

Yes. composition, light and warmth on #2 stand out. Very nice pics.

The Saint Francis has always intrigued me, since I was a young boy reading Oz Hawksley's guide for the first time, and lately been thinking it's time to try it. I've floated the Saint above Sam A. Baker before but never been upstream in the shut-ins sections. Been looking at Roselle Access to Silver Mines. Syenite to Roselle also a possibility. Public access below Silver Mines appears problematic, in fact appears non-existent according to updated Oz guide. Long story short, can anybody give some pointers on these upper shut-in sections? I'd be running in a 17-foot Coleman barge with overnight goods inside. Does this fact alone disqualify me? Maybe just a day trip (with nothing much in the boat) with camping at Silver Mines? I'd love to go below Silver Mines, even if it meant extended trip to Sam A. Baker. I would need all overnight provisions in the boat then. What's the best way to get acquainted with the Saint? Appreciate the input.

Thought I'd answer my own question here. Wound up floating the Alley to Two Rivers stretch. Crowds were "moderate," definitely folks up and down the river but not so much that you couldn't fish, or couldn't enjoy the stream, period. We did put on late in the day so we had the first stretch of river mostly to ourselves. By the time we hit Eminence it was nearing takeout time so we had our share of drunks, but tolerable for the half-hour or so we were in it. Plus, after all my trips this year on stream sections that see little if any traffic it was nice to get out among the masses again. And once we cleared Eminence we were back to having the river mostly to ourselves. The stream of course is just excellent. Great floating, great fishing. Fishing was actually kind of hot and cold but all told an excellent trip

Al, you are zeroing in on how the angler's mind works with this comment. Yes we all have our favorites and we also carry all these other baits we've *heard* might catch fish like crazy so we've bought them just in case. But you know what? We never go out and fish that new bait first thing out, but stuff it in the back of our tackle box and forget about it. Then, a few trips later when all the favorites just aren't working, we dig deep and find *that* lure that some guys on a message board RAVED about so we automatically think yep, this is it, this will solve all my problems! So we put it on and on a day when NOTHING else works, guess what? THIS LURE DOESN'T WORK EITHER! But because this is the new guy on the block, and the one with all the hype, we think, screw that thing, what was I thinking?...The guys on the message board don't know *WHAT* they're talking about. Yep. This is approximately my exact experience with the Senko. I'm going tomorrow by the way. Can't wait.

So you think Alley to Two Rivers would be shoulder to shoulder?

Looking at a trip to ONSR this weekend. Alley Spring to Two Rivers is my first choice. Round Spring to Two Rivers is second choice. Will these sections just be OVERRUN with floaters, or would you maybe call the crowds "moderate?' We'll be camping overnight so I won't mind some crowds during the day, just don't want to be in parade of idiots from morning to night. Thanks.