podum

I have no hard feelings against Justin. I bowed out because I thought he was really angry with me. BTW Justin, I didn't dismiss your education as more faith than fact. I'm glad people are studying this and are passionate about it. After looking at the data, we have just reached different conclusions.

ness, Dr. John Everett's site is the best I've seen at pulling together the data with an effort to avoid bias. There are good links to the component studies from which the data is drawn. It won't give you a complete resource, but is as good a summary as I've found. http://www.climatechangefacts.info/

I didn't expect that you did. A disagreement doesn't make us enemies. I've always appreciated your posts on the Niangua forum and have fished there a lot myself. Thanks for the tomorrow offer, but I'm tied up with work and the holidays. I'll hit you up in January with a post over there.

J.S.'s last post is why it's so frustrating to talk about this issue. I have also spent significant time studying the issue - the writings and theories of both camps. I believe there is warming, I believe CO2 is a greenhouse gas, I even believe the man is causing a very small part of the warming. I don't believe that man is the driving cause of warming. Your quote "What I learned about over a decade ago predicted changes that have come about much quicker than we had predicted." doesn't support a man-made warming argument. The fact that there is warming and a set of predictions one can make about the warming as it continues doesn't say anything about the cause of the warming. When you say "I think I have studied the REAL science more than most people" you expose yourself as a believer not a scientist. When you imply that a thoughtful dissenter is wrong because you have a monopoly on the truth in the form of the "REAL science", you are no longer having a discussion about the science. That argument would get you an "F" in any high school debate class. Man-made warming proponents will have a hard time convincing others that they are right when they paint their opponents as blind, fools and idiots instead of having a thoughtful debate. I am out after this post. Thanks for listening.

I'd encourage you to read "Physics for Future Presidents" Even a liberal physicist from Cal Berkeley doesn't buy that argument.

Quote "That's why I think that human induced climate change is real, is happening already, and is going to be a huge problem. Not because I listened to Al Gore, or even because I read his book. Because I've taken the time to read the REAL science and understand it as much as possible." My point is tha the "real science" is a myth, at least right now. There is a significant faith component in any man made warming argument.

No argument that we are in a warming cycle in the last 40 years. Argument over whether it's a man-made warming cycle. No argument that CO2 is a greenhouse gas. Argument over whether even a 30% increase in CO2, which is by any calc a miniscule component of our atmosphere (and one that has been volitile over the millenia without man's influence), could possibly cause a significant warming. And there is a significant amount of data that shows CO2 levels follow warming, and don't lead or predict it. Those of us who have problems with man made global warming thoeories dont necessarily care any less about the environment, conservation or resource issues than you do.

Ironically, building nuclear power plants would do more to solve the problem than any other proposed solution.

and . . . Cricket, I want to fish the Niangua with you, post haste

not trying to start an argument, but reading your prior post, a reader could reach the reasonable conclusion you were making that argument. (maybe you should read you prior post in the context of the post you were responding to). The "concrete evidence" is impossible to find on either side. And you should acknowledge that. There are smart people on both sides that can cite evidence supporting their conclusions. Neither side can prove they are right. I happen to believe that the carbon cycle calculations and the history of rapid warming (and cooling) in the past, combined with the wealth of alarmist, over-simplified panic mongering coming from global warming alarmists that happen to have an ENORMOUS financial interest in an outcome that supports their conclusion leads to a conclusion that the man-made argument is over blown and will fade into history. I'm not saying I'm definitely right. But if you say you are right, you are taking a great deal on faith and not on science. Point is: (1) reasonable people can disagree on this (2) villifying people that take the other side of the argument is not rational and (3) it doesn't matter which side is right because there are 3 billion people in India and China building 3 coal plants a week that make the argument irrelevant.

We can argue about whether man is warming the globe - I'm convinced there isn't significant man-madewarming. But using invasive species (that were moved into new habitats by man) as support for a man-made warming argument is silly. That sort of misinformation is dangerous too as it seems everything posted on the internet convinces a few of the uninformed that believe anything they read.

Oneshot, whatever you choose to do, I wish you good luck and Godspeed. Having seen you in action, you'll catch em whereever you land.

There wasnt a soul up there. Just a few sailboats and the occasional bass boat buzzing by. On a 60 degree day in November. There arent many places where you can catch whites like that without a boat.

Fished with a buddy at the little platte jetty today for 3 hours and managed more than 30 whites. We kept 10 of the nicer ones (up to 16 inches). They are up on the bank on the main lake if you find some wind.

wrench. that. is. hilarious.

oneshot, you meet everyone at barclay

He does turkey hunt. I'll ask him

pics

spent 3 hours this evening on Clinton Lake tonite with a couple of buddies chasing wipers. Looked for blow ups and followed the birds. Quality fish - all between 16 and 22 inches. sporadic bite, but when you found them up it was automatic. Ill try to post a pick tomorrow. Caught them all on rattle traps with a chrome / silver finish.

I've seen and heard of many pigs out of Greer's Ferry. Lake of the Ozarks is underrated but we've generally only found them early spring and fall. The best way to id the little ones is to look at the horizontal stripes. Broken stripes above the lateral line on either side = hybrid.

BTW there are trout from Barclay down to Prosperine according to the MDC. I know there are trout at Barclay (at least there were last weekend). Oneshot knows too.

If you want to see the various shoals and bars, try google maps - satellite view. The resolution is really good such that you can see the bars. The pics were taken during low enough water to give you a solid picture. The river will be a zoo in July on the weekends. Lots of floaters and a little rowdy. Fish early and late and during the week. Good luck.

It was nice to meet you too. We had a great weekend.

Appreciate your reports and info, as always. Hoping that the rain is light in the next week . . .

cold winter explains it i guess. How's the river oneshot? Coming down next week.