Chief Grey Bear

Al, I can and do appreciate the loyalty you have to your friend. Myself, when floating a creek or river in the spring, I won't target areas that may be possible nesting grounds. Since not all bass in the creeks spawn at the same time, meaning it may be spread over month or two, you will still have good fishing days catching those in pre or post spawn. I just don't see any reason to specifically target nesting bass to have a good time. I am more that positive that you fish the same way in the spring. Is it possible to catch a nesting bass occasionally? Sure it will happen. And nobody has a problem with that. It is a causualty of fishing during the spring. Nesting bass have enough to contend with, without us directly fishing for them. We both know that there are continual nest robbers that they have to deal with 24/7. A female can lay from 2000 to 15,000 eggs. It will take 1 - 2 weeks to hatch depending on a number of factors. If they can make it that far. Of those that do hatch, a very high percentage will not even make it to fingerlings. And of those that are lucky enough, even fewer still, will make it to adulthood. In fact I think that for streams the number is far less than 1%. Nature has built in balace. She didn't plan on the human equation. She couldn't have. I am just of the belief, and I think you are too, that we should do all we can to offer them as much protection as we can and still float and fish.

I would be interested in seeing the data and how it was arrived at. Was it that 98.4% of them swam away at the end of the day? Or they were held and it is positively known that 98.4% survived longer than a week? Nahh, it was greed for the dollar that built this country. Cattle Baron's, Land Baron's, Railroad Baron's, you name it, it was done for the love of money. And it still is today.

I would most likely wait. But keep an eye on the gauge. You may have better luck towards the upper end. It will clear faster and drop sooner.

That is a really nice looking table. But I would hate to ask just how "high end" it is.

Then it went to poachers. Then giggers. Nothing was mentioned about those that target nesting brownies. I am not sure all the poachers and giggers combined could do the damage nest busters can. Agreed.

I don't think you have been paying attention.

That is really great. I love hearing that and seeing all the pics you post of these large brownies. Just few short months ago, we were led to believe that they were all but extinct and the regulations needed to be changed immediately.

That just goes all over me! I am glad they caught them so quick. I really enjoyed all the stories you told me about this river. I would like to fish it some day myself. Keep us posted.

I am not speaking on a personal level. I am talking about the local economy.

I have to say with that it sounds as if you are specifically targeting them once you find them. If that is true and you are catching every nesting bass you can find, you may not have both oars getting wet. But maybe I read it wrong. I hope so.

With all due respect, we both know a bass will not starve to death in 6 days. But I will agree that stress most likely lead to their death. The stress of getting beat around in a livewell, hauled in a bag and dropped into a laundry basket to be weighed, being hoisted into the air and showed to the crowd, thrown into a large tank with all of the other bass and then dropped off in the middle of the lake. I am no fan of tournaments but like you say they are leagal. I do think they need to limit the number of them held on a lake per year. Fat chance of that happening. Its all about the $$$. But darn the person that legally harvests a large bass. If I only had a dollar for every bass mount I have seen in my life that says "Table Rock".

That is why all the studies Denjac. You won't find them floating at the weigh in. Check this out: http://www.sdafs.org/tcafs/meetings/96meet/gillilan.htm So this research is 15 years old. What has changed in the tournaments to lessen the problem? As you say "Tournamnet fishermen at least try to keep them alive." Really? I am trying to find some newer research to show the the mortality rates have dropped. I am still looking.

Where is the uproar from tournament mortality? There have been numerours studies conducted over the years stating that the mortality rate of bass from tournaments is as high as 50%. How many tournaments are held on T-Rock every year? What is the total number of fish weighed in? Not to mention the culls. Maybe that is where you all should be directing your anger.

Another uniqueness that I find is that as you travel west from the tectonic uplifting that happened in the eastern Ozarks of Missouri, it is actually carved out of the plains in the western Ozarks. In other words I guess, the "moutains" of the eastern Ozarks turn into the "canyons" of the western Ozarks. Even though if you were taking a driving tour of the Ozarks, you wouldn't see the difference.

Bill started this one too. More popcorn and Coke please.

Let me add; Just after you turn off of Bus. 60, in just a few hundred feet you will cross the railroad tracks. A few hundred feet after that is the Lime Kiln Access on your right. If you cross the bridge, turn around. You have gone to far and now the access will be on your left. I promise you won't miss it though.

http://mdc.mo.gov/documents/area_brochures/7811map.pdf This is the same link I posted in the "Sping Float" thread. http://ozarkanglers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22994&pid=147920&st=0&#entry147920

Yeah we are going to meet at Lime Kiln. There is ample parking for everyone. These are MDC access' so there is plenty of room. I used to work in Rogers on Emma st. myself. I made the trip in an hour. And that was before the 4-lane was put in through Pineville. I think we have enough food and stuff coming. But if you look at the list and don't see something, bring it. We'll be looking for ya.

Here is a list of motels with a map. http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=neosho%20motels&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wl http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&tab=wl (I cant get the correct map. Just type in Mt. Home to Neosho and it will show you what it suggest your route should be. But I don't like that route.) Or you could go via Hwy 65 Branson to Springfield and west on Hwy 60. It is only about 1.5 hr from Neosho to Branson via Springfield. So the time will be about the same but the route is much better. This is the route I would take. Now if you wanted to save a little money, it is conceivable that you could do it all in one day. If you left at 5:30, that should put you here about 8:30. At the end of the day if you left about 4:00 you could be back home about 7:00. But that is totally up to do you. We still have an open seat if you don't want to haul.

Hey I just thought of something. Stringer, how bringing some paper plates and some plastic forks and spoons?????

Hey you might as well. Looks like it is going to to be a heck of a feast. You ain't got any chili you could bring for the dogs do ya?

Actually wrench, when I first saw the heading, my automatic thought went to the self propelled, gas powered contraption that looked like a passenger car rolling down the rail. Doodlebugs sometimes pulled an unpowered trailer car, but were more often used singly. They were popular with some railroads during the first part of the 20th century to provide passenger and mail service on lightly-used branch lines, obviating the need to operate conventional trains consisting of a locomotive and coaches. Several railroads, mostly small regional and local networks, provided their main passenger services through doodlebugs in a cost cutting effort. But with this being a fishing forum, I knew it had to be the insect. Heck, I still like to feed them. We have some here on the west side of the house every year and I always take a little time every now and then to relive my Ozarkian childhood. It was quite a site the firs time I showed these to my children. Here is a link that shows some pics of a railroad doodlebug: http://www.northeast.railfan.net/self_prop6.html

Yes you have.

Yeah it is a kinda a cheezy name but it is the best I could do. Looks like we are going to have a great turnout. I hope the weather holds out to be better than the last time we planned a spring float. IT SNOWED! Here it the final plan: We will all meet at the MDC Lime Kiln access, near Neosho on Shoal Creek, on Saturday, May 29, at 8:00am. We will then take as few vehicles as needed up stream to the Allen Bridge access to begin the float. I have a trailer that can haul 6 canoes that I will bring. I am also going to bring my grill for the hotdogs and stuff. I figure we will hit the water and begin the float about 9:00am. Would should spend somewhere around 3hrs or so on the float itself. That should put us at the take out somewhere around noon to 1:00. We will then take a vehicle to Allen Bridge to pick the other vehicles. While that is happening we will also start preparing the food. I figure the eating and BS'ing will run us another couple of hours and that should run to around 3 or 4:00. That should get everyone home at a respectable time. Here is a map to Lime Kiln: http://mdc.mo.gov/documents/area_brochures/7811map.pdf There is still time to sign up if you would like to join us. Don't be shy! Chief - 2 - Hotdogs - Shoal Creek - May 29 Wheatenheimer - 1 - Stuffed Jalepenos - Don't care -Any Saturday, except May 15 Markw - 1 - chips if anyone has preference let me know what kind - Shoal creek - may 29 KCRIVERRAT - 1 - Deviled Eggs - Big Sugar, then Shoal - May 29 CDC - 2 - Potato Salad - Shoal Creek - let everyone choose and see if I can make it. fishinSWMO - 2 - baked beans - Shoal Creek - May 29. Saturday Buzz - 1 - Mustard/ketchup soft drinks - Shoal Creek - May 29th Wily - 3 - snack sticks - Shoal Creek - May 29 Knot Head - me - cucumber/tomato salad - Shoal Creek -May 29 Stinger160 - Needs a seat - ??? - Shoal Creek - May 29

Memorial Day weekend is a go if you can make it. But I won't be on the James. I am hosting a float on Shoal Creek. Check this out: http://ozarkanglers.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22653 It would be great if both you and rps and his lovely bride could make it. Yaks are more than welcome. I had a feeling you already had one. I'll bring a whole 6-pack. Of diet Coke. Now who is bringing the diet Slim Jims?