Chief Grey Bear

What is pointless is providing thoughts and ideas on how you can make a stand and put your money where your mouth is. But the only response is excuses and more complaining.

I thought this may be how the posse would band together to combat the alleged problem.

Just an observation over the last couple of weeks. In the previous smallmouth thread, the assult by a few C&R smallmouth anglers was aimed at those that like to keep an occasional smallmouth. The MDC also took a beating for not assigning an agent to every fisherman that fished the sacred waterways of the smallmouth. Apparently only smallmouth are kept as there is not one mention of largemouth or spotted bass numbers in decline in those same waters. Only stringer loads of smallmouth coming out of there. This week the assult is aimed at giggers. And of course the MDC. A reoccuring theme is that the only black species that is seen to been have been gigged, according to reports in this thread, is smallmouth. Not one mention of a largemouth or spot gigged. I may have missed the mention though. Another reoccuring theme is that more enforcment and more restrictions are needed. Is this the first thing that enters our mind when we hear of another store or bank being robbed? No it isn't. The first thing we think is "What a freaking idiot". Make all the laws you want, add all the enforcment you want, it will not stop. Matt is starting the correct thinking. Education. Take a chapter out of the M.A.D.D. playbook. Join with the enforcment agency and contribute not only in the education part but in the field. Stop pointing your fingers and take action. Why don't 4 or 5 of you get together and spend the weekend hitting the hot spot access' and make contact with all those fishing and let them know that you as a group are keeping an eye on this area and will report all violations to the MDC and show them your cell phone. We all have seen in the news about citizen's taking back their neighborhoods from the drugies, surley you can take back your streams. Or you can just open another bag of Cheeto's and continue yellowing your keyboard.

Since we are talking dream trips, as crazy as it may sound, I have always wanted to go the the lakes in Finland that inspired Lauri Rapala to create one of, if not the single greatest bait to date. I just think it would awesome and inspiring to fish the same waters with his creation. If you haven't ever read his story, take a moment and google it.

Boy, I know I am way late on this but, I make my greenbean casserole with wild rice. Man is that good. I also add some cumbled bacon and toss it on the somker for a couple of hours or so when the turkey is gettin near done.

No, these supensions are from major Wildlife Code violations. The list you are talking about numbers much higher. Like a few thousand. Here is an example from the month of August: Suspended 12 people’s hunting and/or fishing privileges for Wildlife Code violations and affirmed actions taken by Missouri courts suspending four people’s privilege. Those whose privileges were suspended are: Billy K. Adamson, Fisk, all sport privileges, two years Michael A. Bailey, West Plains, all sport privileges, two years Richard B. Berghager, Hunnewell, all sport privileges, two years Clifton Brown, Willow Springs, all sport privileges, four additional years Richard K. Burch, Valley View, Texas, hunting privileges, until May 19, 2011 Bobby D. Carroll, Grovespring, hunting privileges, six months Mitchell W. Cummings, Ava, all sport privileges, one year Dustin R. Finley, Norborne, all sport privileges, two years Nathan E. Grider, Nixa, all sport privileges, five additional years Mark L. Harris, Hannibal, all sport privileges, one year Steven E. Johnson, Columbia, hunting privileges, until May 1, 2010 Jason R. Parks, Independence, hunting privileges, until May 21, 2010 James W. Roberson, Doniphan, all sport privileges, one year Terry D. Weaver, Van Buren, all sport privileges, three years Charles E. Wolken, Queen City, all sport privileges, one year A juvenile, hunting and fishing privileges, until Dec. 10, 2009 Approved the suspension or revocation of all hunting and fishing privileges of 264 people who are not in compliance with applicable child support laws. Suspended hunting and fishing privileges of 171 people under the provisions of the Interstate Wildlife Violator Compact. Imposed hunting privilege suspensions of two and three years for two Missouri residents who injured other persons in hunting incidents. The hunters must complete a hunter-education training course before restoration of privileges.

Hey! Now I like that idea!!!!!

Here is an example. Brian K. Deckard, Long Lane, all sport privileges, 1 additional year Evinn C. Dilly, Deerfield, hunting and fishing, until 6/11/11 Tucker D. Ewing, Nevada, hunting and fishing, until 6/11/11 Bradley W. Grider, Nixa, all sport privileges, 1 year Jon F. Ketel, Willard, all sport privileges, 1 year Kody O. Kile, Ashland, all sport privileges, until 8/17/11 Nathanial R. Logsdon, Canton, all sport privileges, 2 years Joshua Oligschlaeger, Rhineland, hunting, until 6/24/11 Stephen D. Painter, Kansas City, all sport privileges, 1 year John S. Shumate, Clinton, all sport privileges, 1 year Michael A. Stillwell, Clinton, all sport privileges, 1 year Ashley N. Wimberley, Hornersville, all sport privileges, 1 year

No. It just gives their name, where from, and how long they lost their hunting and/or fishing privilege for.

I did a little research today and found some year end numbers that I thought I would pass along. As of mid December, 165 persons have lost their hunting and or fishing privleges in Missouri for various lengths of time. That is not the number of total number of violaters convicted, just the number that had their privliges stripped. Most of these were Missouri residents. I think only two were from Arkansas. The MDC added a total of 1,977 acres. Entered into contracts totaling $6,131,206 for various construction projects throughout the state.

I suppose a year end survey could be conducted. I doubt the reliability though. Just making and observation here but, Yellowstone covers a lot of area. Missouri covers a lot of area. I am thinking that the MDC, when conducting a survey, is shooting for a more detailed analysis of user information on a specific section of water. The more I think about phone surveys and the such, my dad hasn't bought a license in 6, 7 years now, due to age. How many of those fishermen would miss out? He lives in Jasper county but, last year only fished there twice. I just think that there are too many variables in any method other than conducting the survey at the point of question. I would say that it may be a safe bet that if a survey happens in a certain area, chances are they are studing the area to make an improvment and they want the general anglers experiences and opinions on that specific area. I also like to say, I don't think it fair to compare the number of agents to the number of survey takers. Those that actually preform the survey are mostly assistants, making $7 or $8 an hour and are usually part time employees, volunteers, making nothing, or interns, working towards a degree.

So how do you two suppose they do it then? Email? Maybe, If they have everybodys email address. Snail mail? How much would that cost? I can't wait until I get a survey for Mark Twain Lake. Phone call? Maybe they will drive by the house and stop in. I'll call you.

Joplin also has a nature center but, your larger crowd would most likely would come from Springfield. I think that late Februray may be your best time. Things start heating up fishing wise in March.

I can't think of a better way to obtain the most accurate information of what an anglers thoughts are about a particular waterway than asking them as they are coming off the water with the trip fresh in their mind.

That is exactly what I am thinking. What ever becomes of this, this was the easiest obstacle to tackle. I understand that we all have a life but, if a fraction of the precieved passion that appears here could be channeled to at least one saturday a month, just think of the possibilities. Lets take a different look at the MSA. 230 members. Of course not all of them live in the eastern region but lets say that out of that 230 members, which according to some post here, that number is growing, 10% or 23 members pledged to spend one day a month contributing to the betterment of smallmouth habitat. If you split that number 4 ways, you have a team of at least 5 members doing something every weekend and making your organization look like they are deeply concerened about and working to improve conditions. Now I know it doesn't seem like a 5 member team can get much done. But I think smaller teams can accomplish more than one large team. Can you imagin the exposure you can recieve by hosting landowner meetings along the corridors that you want to improve? How would you now look in the eyes of the MDC? Host other types of meetings, get your name and mission out there. Be passionate, not over bearing. Work with landowners to develope a plan that would best suit both needs and offer to help implement those ideas. Al, you have done a number of speaking engagments. Surely you can do one a month for this cause?

Did you read what you wrote? Don't try to sell that you "are in it for the ecology" crap.(I say that with the tone of a raised eyebrow,squinted eye and broad smile) You nailed the exact reason you are pushing for it in the last sentence. An increase in production. Ecology and production are not even 3rd cousins.

I am not looking to further the debate on the regs, I want to know what happens next. Are you guy's going to take it to the next level? Or just sit back and say "Well we tried." or "Yahoo! We gott'er done!"? Are you going to do anything else?

You can't base regulations on IF. You are changing what I said. Gary, from the way it appeared to me, wanted a closed season on the smallmouth during the spring spawn in certain areas of the state. It basically mirrored, except he said EAST of the Mississippi, the closed season that is already imposed. And one other minor point is the current regs may keep it closed a few days longer. Now, I wouldn't mind seeing the season on black bass on all unimpounded waters closed from Dec.1 to May 31. Like I stated before, I am not the only user of the resources of this state. And to want it mangaged to suit what I want, is not right. Not state wide. That is why when coldwaterfisher stated, in so many words, that I was being selfish and wanting what was for me...well...I just have to kinda laugh and realize, he hasn't been paying too close attention.

I think if you were to scale down the scope of coverage it would stand a better chance of getting a positive review by the MDC. If you were to concentrate your more restrictive regs to, say, the Meramec, Gasconade, Niangua, and Big Piney, leaving out the tributaries, I wouldn't be near as opposed to this and I don't think most others would be either. Make it simple and just cover the whole river. Al, I am not sure that the slot limits wouldn't be a good sell. They use the slot on most if not all of their lakes and strip pit areas and as stated, it would benefit the most. That is where I am coming from.

Lets say you have your new regs imposed upon every waterway in the state. Now what? Is this where you stop? Are you guys that are so passionate about imposing greater restrictions upon everyone else going to use this same passion to continue your mission work? Are you going to work on other avenues of smallmouth protection while you wait on the MDC to accept or deny your regulation proposal?

That statement could certainly pertain to some that are wanting to ram new regs down the rest of the states throat.

Please be sure you read what I post correctly. I stated that there a couple of streams in my area that I would consider over populated. Not all of them. The thing is unless you know all of the places that I have fished in my life time, don't assume what my experience is.

Nope. No link. That is most likely due to the fact, though, that there is not a study that has been done that shows them to be declining is this state. But if you do find one, I would be most interested in seeing it. I am not a trophy hunter. I am a fisherman. I think the majority of those that toss a line in Missouri are just that. Fishermen. If I catch a fish that is larger than normal, well, that is just a bonus. If I caught a 5 lb + brownie every time, it wouldn't be worth much in my book. There wouldn't be anything special about it. It would be like going to one those "Deer Ranches" and bagging a big buck they grew for you. I look at the Map of Rivers and wonder if things could be made simpler by just saying no possession between March 1st and May 22nd for all Rivers and Streams East of the Mississippi River and South of the Missouri River or for all Missouri Rivers and Streams if the section North has some Smallmouths and could use some bolstering. That is in effect the regs we have now. All of the best smallmouth waters are closed at this same time.

The one and only time so far that I have participated in a angler survey conducted by the MDC, I just happen to be at the right place at the right time. It was in mid 90's at Bushwhacker Lake. It consisted of nothing more than a young, rather nice looking, college aged, intern or assistant that had a clipboard and number of questions that she would ask if you were willing to participate. As she was easy on the eyes, apparently she liked and was concerned about the outdoors, a very sexy trait, I was single at the time, I was a willing participant. She spent the weekend at the boat ramp asking all the anglers a series of questions regarding the management of the lake. What questions I do remember had to do with the bass management and the slot limit. Anyway, I think that is how the surveys are done.

I think I may know.