Chief Grey Bear

Hold on there you two! When you talk Indian, I have to wonder if you are talking about the one running into TR or the one in my back yard? If it is the latter, you better count me in!!!!!! Anything in the pipeline for a 17 footer? When you do I have a name for it!

But you needed to upgrade didn't you? Won't it be better in the long run?

Andy, What I do for the MutiQuote is click on the MultiQuote box on each post you want to quote. Then at the last post in the thread, there will two boxes. One will say Add Reply and Start a new Topic. Click Add Reply and all of the post that you want to quote will appear in the reply box.

It looks like the multiquote is working like the old version. As far as most of the other stuff, I think it is working about the same, just a little different look. I am not sure about posting a photo though. Anybody tried that yet? My only complaint thus far would be all the shades of blue. But like others, I really liked the old format.

Congrat's OTF. It is always a great time going fishing in my book. The catching is just a bonus and one of the perks living in the Missouri Ozarks! As for taking the camera, you can get a nice water proof box that you can clip to you using one of those fake rock climbing clips. The box is in the camping section at Wal-Mart. It is, I guess what you would call a lite/clear blue color. Buzz and I both have one and they work great! If I remembe correctly they come in two sizes for around $10. I can't help you with the posting of pics yet. With this new format, I don't have a clue.

I think that was really uncalled for. Are we to remain silent because we don't express the same view point as you? I have had the pleasure of fishing with Andy and we got into some pretty indepth conversations about fish and fisheries. And can tell you without doubt he has spent a lot of time researching and learning. He is very knowlegeable and it is a pleasure to have a conversation with him. So lets get back to the discussion. It is hard to shed a tear for you boy's on the east side when we read post like this: MDC's official mantra is that habitat degradation is the smallie's biggest problem, and I don't disagree. But smallmouth are surprisingly resilient fish when it comes to habitat. I could take you to upper Big River, the most abused stream in the Ozarks. Flows 30-70 cfs in summer water levels. So choked with lead mine waste that the gravel bars and bottom are much more fine sand and gravel, the crushed tailings, than chert and rock rubble like a normal Ozark stream. The gravel bars are almost completely sterile because the crushed tailings are completely sterile and they fill in all the spaces in the gravel that would allow seeds to sprout out of the water and bottom organisms to live underwater. Deep water on this stretch is maybe 3 feet, with absolutely no place on it that's much over 5 feet. Long stretches are less than two feet deep. Plus it's right in the middle of an expanding urbanized area, with subdivisions everywhere, so the land use practices are exceedingly poor. Plenty of denuded and eroding banks. Poorly treated sewage running into it from a population center of more than 30,000 people. And...surprisingly good fishing. In fact, this is one stream section that IS overpopulated--you can tell because the larger fish have big heads and slender bodies. At least they are overpopulated for the lack of habitat! Nobody drives very far to fish this section of Big River, so it doesn't get a whole lot of pressure. And spotted bass are gradually increasing at the expense of smallmouth. It's had the 1 fish 15 inch limit on smallies and the 12 fish no length limit on spots for a few years. Point is, the population of BASS (forget the species for a minute) is strong, in spite of terrible habitat. If anything, it shows that if the spotted bass weren't there, the smallies would be doing just fine. But in such a population in such poor habitat, if fishing pressure was much greater they'd need some protection. And since I still catch 20 inchers out of this stretch once in a while, protection that maximized preserving the bigger fish would probably work to produce more 20 inchers. As was said above, it would be ideal if we could improve the habitat, but I think you can also maximize the production of bigger fish out of the habitat you have. (And by the way, the MDC biologists are seriously brainstorming ways of bettering the habitat on this stretch.) Just my opinion of course.

That is very sound advice Gavin. I would have to think the very same could be told to those that are "questioning", and I use that term very loosely, the MDC. I just want to throw out a reminder that I offered to help eric if he joined the MSA in a previous post. But it was decided that it was easier to point the finger and complain about the MDC. So I think the argument that I have a negative tone towards the MSA is without merit.

They look to be very legit questions to me. No sarcastic tone.

I would look more at a 2 hp. I think 4hp would be too big. It is not going to take much to push you around.

Mason's???? Oh no!!!!!!!! I thought this would have been a great opportunity to showcase the MSA. I think he blew it.

Do you have link to confirm that only one biologist worked on this project? I did a small bit of resreach yesterday and found that there is in excess of 300 endangered species, plants, animal, and incects, 66 of those being fish, in the state of Missouri. Some of these are only found in Missouri, nowhere else on earth. Smallmouth bass were not on the list.

And the same is said about smallmouth by other agencies.

I would have thought you would be happy to tell how big your organization was. I don't understand the tone of your response.

And I am sure you do eric, I just couldn't find it.

Ahh good to hear. Sounds like a good day on Capp's. Kevin and I didn't talk fishing. It was on a more personal level and I am glad that he confided in me. You are on the top of the list. I will talk with Buzz and see what he can do too. Hey cool, I am a 86'er myself! But yeah no bownies on this trip. I wasn't really looking for them though. I have fished that area for them and well.....you know.... Ah heck, save it for next year!

Hell no! It was because of those people that we have the MDC. And what a hell of job they have done turning it around and keeping that way. All without much thanks. Speaking of those old river guides, there was a bend in the James River, just up from Galena I think, that was giving a name that escapes me at the moment, due to all of the stinking fish carcass' that were thrown there by their clients. The fish were not cleaned, that is just what they did. Maybe if Al will address this, you will believe it. I'll be very surprised if he is not in agreement that fish conservation is many times better today than it was in the early to mid 1900's.

You don't seriously believe what you just said?

I think now, now follow me here, I am not poking fun at you or the MSA, would great time to join them and gather all the information you can obtain about buffer zones. Study it. Know it. Start knocking on doors. Organize small meetings for landownes to attend and present all of your data. I know you have the passion, I hope you have the will. And if you were be serious, I would do some research and make some contacts for info. Now don't tell me you don't have the time, I see at what times and how many times you post here a day. This is about the umpteenth time I have started to post to this. What ever write in response will be, I guess unbelieveable. So I will say this, if you like, you come on over this summer and I will show it to you. Like me, you are from Missouri, so I will show you.

Yeah I have a few books with a lot of those old photos. There was no management back then. But in reality though, if you look closely at those stingers, as Al has stated here on another thread, most of those fish were not very large. Though they would have an occasional bigun thrown in. Much like today.

What specifically has the MSA accomplished? What, besides a newsletter, do I get for my due money? How many current, dues paid, members are there?

I believe Buzz tried to tell you the same thing and you chose not to believe him either. They are here. Since man created these problems, man should be able to correct them. If we want to get real serious about it, we need to start talking about buffer zones along waterways where row crops or cattle are present. It would take a lot of work, I mean a lot, but, I think it can be done. The MDC has already done some studies with the row crop part and through that research, have shown some farmers how to get more production out of their fields and benifit the wildlife. I think that same research can be used along the streams. And if that was to happen, that would also help with the water quality and bank erosion. Now, you are right, what ever the regs are, they are not going to affect me. But I am not the only tax paying user of the resources.

You may new but, I have a hard time believing you been here all along. I have a feeling someone here put a bug in your ear to gain some more exposure. I have a couple of ideas. Not saying it is a bad idea, I just question what the agenda, or slant of the article will be.

That was me. I don't believe in a "blanket" protection for all streams. There are some streams on this side that are over run with brownies. They actually need to be thinned out some. Length limits and creel limits are only a part of the puzzle. There are many other factors that need to addressed. Until you have a balance of habitat, favorable land use management, the proper amount forage, and water quality, it will be very hard to get to the quality and quantity of brownies you are seeking. I haven't seen anyone really address these. It has just been a big dog pile on the MDC. There some other factors too. I haven't seen any one talk about the extreme low water conditions we had in the 90's. That didn't do us any good. And in the last few years, I think flooding has been having an effect. This list can go on. I just don't think that length and creel limits are going to fix the problem. I am not saying it won't help but, from what I am hearing here, it is like you guy's are putting all of your eggs in one basket and bingo, bango, problem fixed. In my opinion it will not be that easy and it will take some time.

Thanks Glory. I am truely grateful. I don't always post a report but, I guess maybe I should. I read your post about floating around Christmas but didn't think I would be doing any floating. Now if you would be up for some wading, I may be able to accomodate your request. Oh you know it. I am lookin at mid Janurary for that trip I was telling you about. Are Sundays good for you? I can do a Saturday but, that is a little tougher for Buzz. Uh.....well.....I did stretch the truth a little. I didn't get to do much conversing. That spot was held by Kevin. I was about to change my mind and go with them......but I really had to get to Joplin. How did they end up doing? How did they like the area?

I would be curious to know if these crimes are being commited on MDC properties? I get the impression from your post that they are doing patrols around the county looking for these types of violations instead of enforcing the Wildlife Code. I agree that most of their time should be spent on enforcing the Wildlife Code but, should they turn a blind eye to other violations? I can just imagine the beaing they would take if they did. Everyone would then be complaining that they are not doing enough to keep the riff raff out of the MDC CA'S.