Chief Grey Bear

Look here: http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/69.pdf

First let me clarify two things. I am not in any shape or form anti lead. I will though, without making a fool of myself, comply with local regulations as I understand the meaning for and can agree with their implementation. Some can't seem to differentiate between the two. Second, I was looking for something totally unrelated when I found this and I am only passing it on for those that would care purchase an alternative to lead if they so choose. Since I don't fish the Current, I will not be making a purchase from this company. It is nice to know that I can though if and when I make a trip that way. http://leadfreejigheads.com/ I was looking at this site when I stumbled on this. http://fishing.about.com/od/fishingtermina...rs_and_More.htm

Missouri certifies first two fishing records of 2009 Tuesday, April 7, 2009 Anglers are off to a fast start. Brian A. Clapp, of Butler, was fishing in a Bates County farm pond when he hooked this 1-pound, 7-ounce yellow perch measuring 13 inches. The fish beat the previous record by 5 ounces. (Missouri Department of Conservation photo) JEFFERSON CITY–Missouri anglers are off to a running start for 2009, having set half the number of records normally recorded in one year. The year was barely a month old when Perry May, Dexter, gigged a 2-pound northern hog sucker from the Current River in Ripley County. The fish measured 17 inches from nose to tail. That is considerably smaller than the 3-pound, 5-ounce pole-and-line record, leaving plenty of opportunity for someone else to better the new “alternative methods” mark. Brian A. Clapp, of Butler, was fishing in a Bates County farm pond when he hooked a 1-pound, 7-ounce yellow perch that measured 13 inches. Missouri has no alternative-methods record for yellow perch. This category includes gigging, bowfishing and the use of trotlines, pole and bank lines and other set lines. Missouri is near the southern limit of the yellow perch’s natural range. The species can exceed 2 pounds but seldom grows much over 1 pound, even in the heart of its range in the upper Midwest. Fisheries Programs Supervisor Rich Wehnes maintains fishing records for the Missouri Department of Conservation. He said he normally records four or five records a year, but some years are exceptional. “I am not sure how many records were set in 1996 and 2002,” said Wehnes, “but we still have seven on the books for each of those years.” Record-setting started fast in 2002, with three established by the end of March (largemouth bass, white bass and paddlefish). After that the pace slowed, with one record each being set in May (common carp), September (smallmouth bass), October (striped bass) and November (grass carp). With the exception of pole-and-line records for white bass and grass carp, the remaining five records in 2002 were set in the alternative methods category. “That year really showed you can set a fishing record any time of the year,” said Wehnes. A list of Missouri fishing records, rules and entry forms are available online at www.missouriconservation.org. Click on keywords “Fishing” and “Browse Fishing by Subject.” The site also has information about the Conservation Department’s Master Angler program, which recognizes notable catches that fall short of records. For qualifying weights, visit www.mdc.mo.gov/documents/fish/records/fishawrd.pdf. -Jim Low-

I have been eyeballing the Citron model. It will run about $20 less than the Prez model and from I can tell only diff is in the number of ball bearings. The Prez has two more than the Citron. Everything looks to be the same.

All is well OTF. I never took it personaly. I have on many occasions done just what you did, and sometimes still do. It is human nature. I understand and agree TF. But I will say I would much rather see aluminum on the waterways as I would glass. That is just ignorant in my opinion to have glass out there. I don't care how careful you think you are. Plus if you ban aluminum, you are banning a lot of canoes(which may not be a bad thing ) and jon boats. Before I get in trouble, I am not coming down on you. But there are others out there that in my opinion are not thinking when they take glass out there. Take a look next time you are out and try and find a gravel bar that does not have a broken piece of glass somewhere. It is dang near impossible.

Just as well. I think this thread is pretty well done anyway. If you felt singled out, that was not my intention. I sure didn't read it that way. I find it funny you didn't find BM's post as getting personal or nasty. But I guess that was because you were in agreement with his point of view. Since mine was the oppisite of his, it was I that was nasty and personal.

I guess you are done then. I am not changing my beliefs or how I present them because you have sensitive feelings. I am not saying I am going to stop using lead. But I do understand the reasoning behind it and will abide by it where it is banned. I have caught a hell of lot trout, bass and just about anything else on lead free crankbaits. Just how many waterways in this state are talking about anyway? One? Two? Less than .000001%* of the total river/stream milage in the state? * I made this figure up but, it looks about right.

I guess you are done then. I am not changing my beliefs or how I present them because you have sensitive feelings. I am not saying I am going to stop using lead. But I do understand the reasoning behind it and will abide by it where it is banned. I have caught a hell of lot trout, bass and just about anything else on lead free crankbaits. Just how many waterways in this state are talking about anyway? One? Two? Less than .000001%* of the total river/stream milage in the state? * I made this figure up but, it looks about right.

Boy, I dunno about this thread. Did you see the big ol' rant Babbler went on just a couple of weeks or so ago about this subject. I thought it was pretty well understood that if you didn't land it, you can't talk about it cause I guess it never happened. Something like that. But like you I will risk it. My experience happened when I was about 7 years on Elk River arm of Grand lake. Dad always had trot lines out in the old river channel. We would spend the evenings during the week getting black perch and leeches for the lines. Then on the weekend we would bait them up on Friday night and run them first thing in the morning. This paticular morning he was taken off higher number of larger flatheads. Then he stopped for a second and looked at me and said "We got a biggun on here." He kept going and the fish got closer. Finally, with a great explosion of water, my father battled the biggest flathead I had seen. They battled for what seem like forever, but really didn't but maybe a minute or two. The as quickly as it started, it was over and dad lost. He couldn't find his gaff hook to get the fish with. I pointed to the hook. Dad just looked at it with disbelief. He just didn't see it during the fight. Dad estimated the flathead to weigh at least 50 lbs. I won't dissagree as he still has the 6/0 stainless steel hook that was bent almost straight. Dad quit trotlining a few years ago and just does juglines. He has caught many fish larger than that now. All released and still haunting the mud flats below #10 bridge. He best to date is 65lbs.

Spot on there Joe. You can definitely see a line in the sand of who cares for the outdoors and want to pass it on to the next generation with minimum amount of impact. And those that claim to love the outdoors until a slight, momentary inconvenience that will improve the health of the environment is enacted to protect from man what it cannot protect itself. Brownie did put a nice twist on it though. I am sure that is exactly what they were thinking.

Thanks for all your input guy's. That was way more than I was looking for and in enjoyed it.

Exactly Whack'em. "Bait fisherman kill all the fish" "State wide 18" length limit" "Catch and release only" "NO LEAD! Are they for real! They are taking all of our rights. Lead is not harmful! I eat lead all the time..... blah...blah.....blah"

Despite the weather, it sounds like you two had a good time anyway. I wish I could have been there with you. I know Buzz does too. I hope you get back this way again Al, it would be a real pleasure to wet a line with you. If you like, we could take you on an awesome flyrod wade trip for Brownies.

True words there Thom! Don't know who was hiding in Arkansas, but if is was who I think you may be referring to, at least he was getting a prestigious education that is serving him well. I guess he could have claimed to be a National Guard pilot from a state he had never been to. The only runway lines that I hear he saw were the ones that went up his nose!

I would have to say the best fight I had happened was when I was 7 years old. Mom and dad had a place on the Elk River arm of Grand Lake. If any of you happen to know, it was between Cayuga and Shadow Rock. Every now and then dad would get some scrap cheese from the local cheese plant(which can't be done now due to bait companies) and some corn. We would bait up a hole just off of a point where the cabin was. It was also at this time in my life that I was taught how to cast and reel up just the right amount of line to leave juuuuust a little bow in it to detect the bite. We would have the rod propped up on a rock or use a log that had washed up on the bank. We rarely used a forked stick. It was also at this time in my life that I learned how to tell the difference between the wind, waves and a bite. Man, those were the days. Anyway, this day in particular, there was dad and couple of close friends and me down there fishing for carp. Dad had me using a Speed Stick rod and Mitchell 308( I think, I can't recall the # for sure) reel with 10 lb Stren. So I start getting a bite. I have my hand in position to grab the rod and jerk just at the precise time dad tells me. As I am watching the line, it makes a run and Dad yells "YERK". And I do. And let me tell you the fight was on. Boy against beast! Up to this time I had caught my fair share of carp and catfish. But this was different and I knew it! This was no ordinary fish! Usually the fight was over in 5 minutes. That was not to happen this time. Five minutes came and went. Then ten, or so it seemed to a 7 year old. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ, the common sound of line being stripped off of a reel, was many times. My arms wore out from the struggle, I looked back at my father and said, "Take it, I can't do it!" "NO", he said, " You hooked it, you reel it in!" And I did. Finally. After what seemed to be a lifetime, and the most wore out 7 year old you ever saw in your life, I was the proud owner of a 18 lb carp. But now, I was so excited at the monster fish, I bear hugged that beast, weighing what seemed to be not much less than me, and took off through the camp looking for my mother. I was so proud of that fish! I looked for her for about 10 minutes or so and not finding her, headed back to my dad, to let him go. Ahhhh the memories

Thanks for all the info guy's. This canoe will actually be my fourth in 30 years of floating Ozark streams. The first one was stolen after only about 4 years of use. The second lasted about 5 years when it was loaned out and got wrapped around a tree when they capsized. The third one my father is still using after 20 years of floating without one patch on it. All of these were fiberglass and that is one reason I am pretty much sold on that type. I will be checking in with those fellas down in Garfield though. I may end up going that route. I am just not sold on those material types due soley to the fact that it is practically impossible to patch or fix worn spots. From what I can tell in my research so far.

Who said there was a problem with our edukation sistem? Maybe there was lead in the water?

Unless of course you are a fly fisherman, then it becomes the "strike indicator".

How is there going to be a tie? How many guesses does each person get?

And Uranium, Plutonium,.....I'll stop here for now

AAAHHH, it is a moot point anyway. As Taxi said a few months ago, all fishing would be banned in 2-years if you know who got in.

I am in the market for a new canoe. Not necessarily brand new but, new to me. I am and have been a fiberglass man all my life. And most likely that is what I will end up with. I have been doing research on Ram-X and like a lot of the qualities it has to offer. One thing I cannot find about it is how wears as compared to fiberglass. I know from experience that after a few years of floating over riffles, that fiberglass, though it will take many years, will eventually wear out. Does anyone know how RAM-X will compare? Also, I have never put a hole in a canoe but, I know it can happen. In my research, I have not found any successful way to repair RAM-X if this were to happen. Has anybody here found a method that works? Al, I know from reading, you are not a fan of Pelican or RAM-X, do you still feel that way? CDC, You have a Pelican Colorado, or Dakota, I think they are the same they just changed the name from what I can find. How is yours doing? How is it wearing on the bottom? I thank each and everyone of you for any and all info you can share!

Just as an example, since, lets say, Table Rock was built, how many tons of lead do you think has been lost there? It may surprise you. But I really don't think you will be able to comprehend that since you think barnyard poultry and wild game birds have the same eating habits. That says a lot about who we are dealing with. I can definetly see a positive side to this though. There should be a lot less sinkers with hooks hanging from all the trees. If it cost a little more, some may be less apt to leave them. Or at least learn to cast better.

Oh my bad. From your article that you quoted in your first post, I thought I read it as saying "Lead Free". And I also thought it said "all hunting and fishing". And thanks for correcting me about when the new admin. started. I could have swore it was in 2008. I guess the point of my whole post went completely over your head. Again. Let me help you out a little. Point 1. As Al eluded too, the main reason for lead being banned is that it is picked up and ingested very easily by waterfowl and doves. Not to mention other song birds and birds of prey that may consume a infected bird. Point 2. This is not recent "change" that you, and few others here, like to keep harping about. It has been going on for 20 years now. You don't seem to have trouble using the internet to post flipant comments that are baseless and factless, why don't you use it to research and learn. I do thank you for posting this though. It is worth keeping an eye on.

This is nothing new kiddo. It has been happening in small increments since the '80's. This might help some here to understand what Al was saying. February 2007 Nontoxic shot requirement expands to new areas Friday, February 23, 2007 Regulation changes on 21 conservation areas will require hunters to use steel or other nontoxic shot for all shotgun hunting, starting this year. The change is designed to reduce wildlife exposure to lead shot. (Missouri Dept. of Conservation photo) Hunters will need to use steel or other nontoxic shot for hunting on 21 more conservation areas this fall. JEFFERSON CITY-Concern for the health of waterfowl and other wildlife is the basis for new regulations that will require the use nontoxic shot for all shotgun hunting on 21 new areas this year. In August, the Conservation Commission approved a ban on lead shot for all hunting with a shotgun on 21 conservation areas (CAs). All 21 areas attract large numbers of migratory waterfowl and shorebirds. The requirement to use steel or other federally approved nontoxic shot on these areas applies to all hunting with shotguns. CAs affected by the regulation change include B. K. Leach Memorial, Black Island, Bob Brown, Columbia Bottom, Cooley Lake, Coon Island, Duck Creek, Eagle Bluffs, Fountain Grove, Four Rivers, Grand Pass, Little Bean Marsh, Little River, Marais Temps Clair, Montrose, Nodaway Valley, Otter Slough, Schell-Osage, Settle's Ford and Ten Mile Pond. Conservation Department Assistant Director John Smith, who chairs the agency's Regulations Committee, said the changes are based on research conducted in cooperation with the University of Missouri's Department of Fisheries and Wildlife and Veterinary School and other agencies. Research findings indicate that lead shot is being deposited in quantities sufficient to cause birds to pick it up when foraging for food. They further show that ingesting lead shot causes many birds to die. Species found to suffer from lead poisoning include mourning doves, eagles, hawks, owls, quail, wild turkeys and shorebirds. "This is not something we are rushing into," said Smith. "Exhaustive research has documented the fact that high concentrations of lead shot deposited on some areas are causing birds to die. Determining exactly how many birds are affected is more difficult, but there is no question that lead poisoning is occurring. Knowing that, the responsible thing to do is to address the problem where it is most serious." Smith said the regulation changes focus on areas of concentrated hunting activity. This includes areas managed for waterfowl and dove hunting. Up to 6.5 percent of doves eat lead pellets. However, even at this low rate of exposure, nearly as many doves die of lead poisoning each year as the number of doves shot by hunters. Similar findings led federal officials to ban the use of lead shot for waterfowl hunting 20 years ago. The new state regulations expand the requirement for nontoxic shot to areas where birds are at similar risk. The Conservation Department will hold 25 to 30 seminars at locations around the state starting this summer to help hunters learn to use steel shot effectively. Information about these seminars will be posted on the agency's Web site as soon as details are set. Smith emphasized that this year's regulation changes only affect hunting on the 21 areas listed above. "Change is never easy," said Smith, "and hunters are right to question why they should have to change the kind of ammunition they use. But I have faith in hunters. The conservation movement started with hunters, who recognized that some restrictions were necessary to preserve their heritage. Hunters have always supported science-based conservation. They know it is the only way to ensure the future of their sport. When they know the facts about lead shot and doves, hunters will be glad to do what's right." -Jim Low-