Chief Grey Bear

I thought was only for jellyfish stings??? Right on the money there! I have two Falcon spinning rods and love the tar out them!!!

That would be my guess.

Its a date! You are aware that the MDC does electroshocking and they do have records of previous shocking to compare with to determine whether or not populations are being affected??? Then we could go over the results of the "White Paper" again if need be. If the rivers were being raped as you claim, Mr. Beck, or Glen if I may, then the MDC would have shut down smallmouth bass fishing. But it appears as if the exact opposite is in effect.

It takes a lot more than putting up signs and trying to enforce their ideals. There is a lot of work that needs to be done. I don't think you people understand what you read. I have always agreed to a slot limit. I have always agreed that in all unimpounded waters east of the James should be 18" length limit. All I have said it that in the unimpouned waters south of I-44 and west of the James should have a 15" limit. And to one fish on the high side. Why are you guys so hung up on a 5 county section in the very sw corner of the state that you will most likely never fish??? I sure do hope you will come and fish sometime though. I think you'll have a blast!

I tell you what, you boys find the reseach that supports the theory that smallmouth are being harvested beyond the means that the stream supports and we will take this a step further. Until then there is no reason to change the regs that support the trophy hunters and the meat hunters and those like me that just like to fish.

Not everyone is of superior intelligence like you Gavin. Cheers!

I will agree that habitat is very important. No question about it. But that is but one part of the puzzle. And I am not sure anyone really knows what all the pieces are. But I can tell you this, from my time on the water over the last 40 years, the Neosho and the Northern like to inhabit a little bit differnt waters. And the biggest difference seems to be the size of the water. As the water gets bigger and the currents seems to slow as the rivers here expand out somewhat into more of a prairie stream, you will find less and less Neosho's. In fact, in western Jasper county in the Spring River, they seem to be none existant. They don't seem to care for larger, slower water. I have always found them streams with good current. And even in those streams, when you come to a long slow pool, it is highly unlikely you will catch one. But you will at each end of it where the water is flowing better. Now that is not to say that Northerns don't like the same fast waters that Neoshos do. But on systems like say the lower Gas and such type, you will still find great numbers of the Northern. And that is one of the key differences in these two speices. And is also one of the reasons why I think the Neosho will not grow as large as a Northern. I like the idea of a slot. I always have. And I think you are spot on that every watershed should be managed for its potential but that is just not practical from a enforcement perspective.

Following the law is ethical. You should get out more. But to be more specific, we are speaking genetics here and and to a lesser degree but, no less important, habitat.

Haven't we all...haven't we all. Just having a little fun ya with Al. I have discussed this with the local MDC biologist and though he stopped short of saying they it was over populated, he did state, that the waterway did not need any more in it. We both agreed that it has an unusually high population. Forage in the stream comes at a premium. You will see almost 0 crawdads and what appears to be a lower than normal population of minnows. But there does seem to be enough to sustain the population. But in all streams I have noticed a, what to me seems, to be a drop in the population of crawdads and minnows from when I was a kid. Have you noticed anything like that??? Now let me add that this high population is in only one stream. All of the others that I fish appear to have a proper balance. So don't get too hung up on thinking that I am saying all steams in this corner are overpopulated. I don't think it would differ much from the northern strain. It has been my experience in fishing the waters of this corner as well as others of the state, the Neosho seems to top out at about 18 inches. In fact I have rarely caught one that size. You can and will catch some in the 15"-17" range but I wouldn't expect to do it all day. The northern strain that you are most accustomed to catching doesn't appear to have any trouble reaching 20" or more. And I can see and would agree that a 18" limit would work. But I don't think that is beneficial to the Neosho or the fisherman that fish for them. And that is someone that I also think we need to think about. I like to be fair to all that use our resources. As long as they are fair to the resource. But that is something you have to regulate on a one on one basis and that is why we have agents. Whether oone thinks they are doing their job or not. I would hate to take a kid fishing down here and have him catch the fish of his life but it only be 17" and he had to turn it back.

Well there you go boys, case closed.

I was going to be a nice guy today and stay home with the wife. So as I was messing around early this morning, the wife comes bouncing down he hall and looks at me with a stunned look on her face and asked, "Aren't you going fishing today?" "Well, I didn't plan on it." So I then asked if she would help with the shuttle. I think you know how that when and what I and Dylan did today. Boy am I glad we went too. We may not have caught a boat load of fish but, we did get about 25 or so a piece, the fish we did catch were all very respectable fish. Here is a sample for your viewing pleasure.

Really??? That is bold talk from a one eyed fat man from the east! Now you are catching on! That is all we have heard from you easterners. Fishing will not be better if you don't get rid of some of the smaller fish. Did you ever notice that all MDC lakes have a slot limit on bass. There is a reason for that. I will give you a hint. The 8" to 11" inch fish have a ferocious appetites. And that is not good for growing large bass. Even worse in unimpounded waters.

No it was a natural balance before the europeans showed up. Nobody can manage a stream better than mother nature. That fact is supported by your management plan.

Great, then there is no need for stricter regulation, because there has been nothing found stating that the population is being decimated and some here seem to think. Now if you want to talk crappie, I think there should be a 12" limit on the larger impoundments.

If it was healthy for the stream, I would be too Ham. But there is 0 research supporting that.

1 fish over is 1 fish over no matter what the length limit is. What kind of math do you guy's have over on the east side anyway???

If it is one fish over 18" for all except swmo and 1 fish over 15" for all unimpounded waters in swmo, how the hell is that you can keep more fish????? Yet you don't mind haveing special regs for spots on your rivers???? There is no err. Don't belive every thing you here about alleged milk can stockings. Trout yes, bass no. Not in these waters. 25 years of reasearch and questions have turned up nothing.

Well, they ain't very active then are they..... That all depends on how good a fisherman you are, not how good the regs are cowboy....

We went over this when the "new regs" were being forced so I will give the short version. The MSA touts themselves as the savior of the smallmouth bass in Missouri. Yet all you see for accomplishments is posting signs, setting up a booth at boat shows to garner new members, a once a month fishing trip/meeting, and the occasional stream clean up. In essence it is nothing more than a bass club disguised as a conservation effort. Now I really don't want to get any further away from the subject of this thread than we already have. And I will take the blame for that. But if you would like to discuss this further, please start another thread and I will happily join in. But lets make it a real discussion and not a pissing match. I layed it before and would be happy to do it again, I just don't think the MSA is going in the right direction. Just my opinion. *except west of the James River and south of I-44, slot is 12"-15", with one over 15", with 6 per day in McDonald County. If I can ever get you down there some day, you will understand. Thank you Dr. Ness. I always thought fishing as a social event. I am sure that the thousands that fish our parks per year would. But they don't know about this forum and they sure as hell have never heard of you.

Apperantly not. It seems as if the MDC was listening. Having lived with it for the last 11 years, I have become somewhat used to it.

I think your best and probably safest bet would be north of the Missouri River.

Ahh yeah, gotcha. I just keyed in on the 'If it ain't in the book...." and thought that ain't anywhere near right. Let's not talk much about the upper ends of creeks.... I think most of his info and maps came from conversations with local outfitters and such.

We are talking about a put and take non-native fish. They put them in so people can take them out. Are we now trying to create a world class non-native brown trout fishery???? You want bigger browns, fish smarter. They are there. I'll tell you what is getting old, the very few trying to control the very many.

Nice job on the fishing! Even though it is hot, the bite seems to still be very good. If you stop by the MDC office in Springfield, they will give you all the bags you want.

What is quite clear and simple is a small few that want regulations to fit their needs and not the MDC management plan or those of the vast fishing majority. That is the same tired debate you have been conducting here for four pages. You might want to check with the MSA on how well they did in trying to force their self satisfying stricter regulations upon the fishing public of this great state.