Chief Grey Bear

No kidding? That's cool! You have sure put it to good use!

It also seemed to validate what we both have been saying about stocking. It specifically pointed to stocking in your area and named numerous times the Black, St. Francis and another stream as having integrates. But it was never mentioned for anywhere else. The part about the State using the Ozark as brood stock was a surprise. I wish it would have listed when, where and for how long this project lasted. Did you notice that they seemed to call the Shadows of SWMO Neosho's? Not right out but always the Neosho basin and such.

Nice to see you back Ron.

I just sent you some info. Probably the most credible I have read on this subject. I don't think I have pics of them but, I have caught some that have the "freckles" on the gills, nose and lips also. I have only seen it a handfull of times though.

Why do you think they are doing it Wrench? You don't see a pattern in the proposed bills?

Sorry.

I have had that same pain between the blades. I found if I would relax and leaned back a little, the pain would be lessened. I think what we do is lean forward and kinda of scrunch too much and coupled wth the paddling, casting and reeling in compromising positions is what caused it. It is worse for me in the front seat. I hate the front seat! If I would flex my shoulders back it would help temporarily.

I'm calling Shadow also. I can't say that I have ever caught a Northern in Elk. Which brings up an interesting analysis. As a kid hitting the rivers, mainly Spring and Center and a few local smaller ones, I remember using smaller grubs and worms (before Ned stuck his name on them), Beetle Spins and the like, and catching Northerns. Not a ton of them but some here and there. I didn't target them, I was just a kid fishing. But I can distinctly remember that they did not have the blotches like the Shadow. They were just bronze in color, their eyes seemed to really bug out and they were the most beautiful red color. I can remember dad explaing how they got their name. If I had been catching Shadows like pictured, I would have remembered that. Once I started fishing more creeks and rivers in Newton and Mac counties, I quickly noticed the difference. What a gorgeous fish the Shadow is! They look like something from the Tropics! This discussion has sparked my interest to go back to those areas of my youth and target Rock bass and see what I find.

I will.

I think right there tells you there was no indiscriminate stocking. If there had been then most certainly Ozarks would have been included. How do we know if the Ozark will or will not interbreed? Why wouldn't it? Back to the stocking for a minute. Who would have done it and why? Life in the Ozarks was hard enough. There was no time to do this. People were busy tending chores and eeking out a living. What purpose would it have severed? That would have been a lot of driving on very bad roads if not just a trail. Why Goggle eye? We know the State didn't do it. So who was it? What evidence does your source site? I have not read that some biologists state that Ambloplites were not native to those systems. At best, it doesn't appear if anyone really knows. You have just posted three different scenarios from three different sources. And that is what is troubling. Here is from another source online just by doing a quick google. By this source it appears there are no Shadows in SWMO. It appears there is getting to be too much unsubstantiated information that can lead to confusion. (I added the common name in parentheses for clarification) North American Distribution: A. rupestris (Northern) Common from St. Lawrence River and Great Lakes, Hudson Bay and Mississippi River basins, south to northern Georgia and northern Alabama. Widely introduced throughout the U.S. A. constellatus (Ozark) Endemic to the upper White River drainage of Missouri and Arkansas where it is locally common. A. ariommus (Shadow) Common in Gulf Slope drainages from Georgia to Louisiana and the lower Mississippi River basin. Can post your links? I would like to see these several sources. One thing that is interesting about this is, is that much like the Nesosho Smallmouth, the Shadow seems to be on its own island in this corner of the state. Did it migrate to these clear waters at the same time the Neosho did?

Ha, no. I haven't ate a Ozark yet. Actually caught that Ozark while fishing with Terrierman over in his neck of the woods last year.

Here one each Ozark bass and Shadow for comparison. I edited and cropped the pic to give a better view.

Had a plate of Shadow bass a couple of weeks ago.

Well just hang tight. I'm sure it'll be a dog pile like always. Wrench was the first to display a fang. There will be more.

No, no fight. I love discussing these things with Al.

I don't think that is correct Al. If there "was a lot of indiscriminate stocking of all three species" it would have shown in the genetic analysis taken from the hundreds and hundreds of specimens used for the study. If indeed Ozark bass and Shadow bass were "indiscriminatly stocked" outside of their native range, they most certainly would have survived due to the fact that they inhabit the same type of water and structure. Also i belive if the stocking would have happend as you say, the native ranges of both would be larger due to the fact they were not known to be different speices unitl late in the last century. I know you like to quote that one source for the "milkcan stockings" all over the Ozarks but we have both done enough research in reading everything we can get our hands on and personal conversations with those that lived and fished the rivers back then and other than trout, I just can find your source on this as very credible.

AAAAARRRGGGG! My bad. I completely missed the mold part. I was thinking you were doing this to each jig. Please carry on.

Ouch!

I think you missed it. Or maybe I did.

Did I state somewhere that I doubted this worm on a jig hook? But when you have to file, Dremel, glue,.... But more power to them if they like doing all of that. That's what is great about this place. One thread about keeping it simple and packing light and pages upon pages on the scientifics of putting a chunk of plastic worm on a jig.

Uh yeah Gav. We fished it for years and years before some one stuck their name on it. Just seems like a lot of work for a fish that has a brain less than half the size of the bait you're tossing to him.

It's not a competition.

Might have to do a side by side