MoCarp

what funny about this thread is how people take from print I think of this skit...

yes! I'd bump of the size a bit in the trophy area but its a step in the right direction this is kind of like texting sometimes the post seems more whistle than it is fly fishing is a real deal and I am going to do far more of it if I get my health back ( slowly I am) I have a number of people that fly fish for carp and its the chitz ...and in some waters you can ONLY fish for them by the fly, so he has waters where his opinion is a reality well its for sure less lethal than stabbing them...and MOST states place stab harvesting gamefish in the same vein as spot lighting deer or shooting turkeys off the roost. or running down pronghorns with your F-150

the way YOU wrote your statement suggested you ONLY saw 4 fish that were big walleyes in your 5 years of spearfishing saw as in stabbed...and I have caught a four fish limit of walleyes where the smallest was 6# posted the picks a while back...back when like many went through a meat fishing faze...ah the ignorance of my youth grasshopper... no not at all but if you are going to eat fish don't eat the Trophy sized ones, eat the more numerous smaller fish people have been screaming and if you do you research common carp are the most chased sport fish in the world and depending on the exchange rate anywhere from 7-9 billion dollars is spent each year far more than is spent on largemouth bass here in the USA prob not considering they filter feed just like shad and paddlefish if you knew anything about me the narrative of "uneducated" would be a fools choice, I'd gladly chat with you on a few other of my interests....as far as new rules and regulations our local , state and federal gov are rife with special regulations to special interest groups in this case scuba stabbers that got the regulations changed to shoot game fish in Arkansas my inbox says otherwise going through some old pics trying to find the 10" one I caught from a pit in the 80's caught it on a popping bug flyfishing from a float tube

the upper trophy area of Taney is a good start

and give up the good fight??? 😆 I'd love to, but my bad health gets in the way...but I'd say few people will every get to have fished as much as I have, or as blessed to landed my share of trophy fish..I understand that the stabbers and stabber lovers hate me...I can live with that I will answer again S-L-O-W-L-Y hunting fish specifically the largest of the species is akin to shooting a huge tom turkey off the roost or spotlighting a 14 point buck...taints the accomplishments of "legitimate' sportsmen...IMHO yes do some reading on the subject...ever wonder why the government started??? interesting reads and the accomplishments achieved is awesome! not everyone here, my inbox says otherwise...kinda like the last election next thing they knew hail to the chief was played for Trump And deer spotlighted are a statistically smaller impact on the deer harvest, again I will say this S-L-O-W-L-Y the WAY you harvest matters!.... with your argument as long as limits are followed any method should be kosher....if you don't think so post your pic on http://www.bigbluegill.com or a stabbed bass on any bass FB page or group....sweet baby jesus post a stabbed muskie on a Muskie FB or group page... the regulation was allowed by effective lobbing by the spearfishing community, its my understanding the Bfing community is seeking an expansion to allow the same harvest as you know enjoy...if that happens you can count on a public back lash that could steal your current privilege as well when pics like this start showing up in earnest..look real close at the dumpster pic ahh catfish you should see the ones I am saving for the big fights.

I have been over the last few years doing exhaustive research on common carp, I am helping some state biologist on this issue and have even inquired with local states to get the data....like many things the whole story is more complex...common carp can be an issue in predominantly silt bottomed shallow eutrophic lakes of the upper midwest with source point pollution issues (caca water and road salts)...Ironically Large Mouth bass are implicated in California studies and have been directly blamed for the extinction of native fishes and amphibians...somewhere I have a link to a study or 20 that shows this posted on this forum 9LMB are not native west of the rockies) common carp have long been blamed for eating the spawn of "gamefish" yet no definitive evidence have even been submitted in academia many of the disappearances blamed on common carp have happened post WWII....just so you know Common Carp have been in waters in our area and most of the USA for 140 years...let me say that again ONE HUNDRED AND FOURT YEARS! they were here before the 1st white river dam was built and swam in the white river back in the old glory days when you could catch scads of bronze backs in a good old fashion Ozark float. I remember how the alligator gar was blamed in the same ways and even bounties paid on their harvest...yet today we seek to protect and even raise them in hatcheries...soon a major paper backed with decades of data is to be published that will be a milestone....I would suggest you read some of the studies hard data you posted sometimes conclusions can fly in the face of the data something that will be addressed in the soon to be published paper!

but would you shoot a 20# brown? I know people who have been walleye fishing for over 10 years and never caught a 5# walleye, how many walleyes over 5# have you shot in your whole 5 years? some anglers go their whole life and never catch a 8# walleye, so four in 5 years? be a pretty good angler to catch a 8#er every year.... Has your whole 5 years of experience has allowed you to draw on your vast experience on this issue?, methods like spearfishing gives an un-fair advantage..just like spotlighting...and its why MOST states do-not allow it... the lobby used to make it spearfishing legal is something we in the carp community are using to effect favorable regulations to our advantage the VAST multi-billion dollars carp industry in the EU shows vast economic potential here in the states that has made our job easier Picture is worth 1000 words...I'd would hope it really isn't happening on a daily basis lots of people still fish just for food...thankfully those % of the angling community are getting less and less, and Trophy waters are being created in most states on a variety of species even common carp! ironically on Lake Fork in Texas you can still kill and if you want eat a 10# LMB yet the angling community would not give you a warm an fuzzy over it...just like my response on stabbing of the biggest and best of the lowly long ear sunfish...a monster of its kind, much like a 13# LMB would be...I have spent a great deal of my angling life chasing huge sunfish of all species perhaps when you have spent almost 50 years fishing, hunting and trapping your opinion on these issues will evolve as mine did....true trophy fish are rare and too special to use only once

the term "fair chase" and the public opinion is what drives what is honorable... back in the day it was cool to shoot birds off the roost, and fishing with TnT. it was the drop in wildlife populations that gave rise to wildlife/fisheries management and the "conservation" of said species and habitats. like most science we learn more everyday. I am not a peta type person, hunting fishing and even trapping is something I have done and enjoyed,...its not the 1st time people try and hang that narrative animal rightist on me. I'd would say that would be a fair statement...but I'd bet the trophy sized fish harvested by spear fishermen is greater, the state of Texas experimented with Bfing catfish and after study discontinued the regulation because of the disproportionately higher numbers of trophy size catfish harvested. I can say that far more large cats were taken by anglers than were shot yet yet for the reasons I have stated at ad-nauseum stabbing disproportionately harvests trophy sized fish and the impacts of doing so on said fishery education on fish handling has been blowing up social media Muskie, bass even carp..if you don'y think so scan a few FB groups of pages...trout anglers have done a far better job of fish handling more in this state than you would think...more than a few lurk on this form😉

unless the state tracks this..no one can say, IMHO I'd say yes it effects the larger less numerous fish in the population people also do not know of kill tourneys...FWFS, USOA Spearfishing Nationals 2016 Beaver Lake Arkansas is an example from the videos looks like point blank shooting....love to see bass guys wade in here

in another thread I asked if any "holes" were apparent...none were I would be all for a mandatory report on fish harvested to get real hard data, but I ask when YOU shoot a walleye do you not shoot the largest out of the school? also the numbers of big deer shot under a spotlight from a vehicle are tiny when compared to what is legally harvested, yet enforcing that regulation against that activity is vigorous...why? it can be argued a very few people can harvest at an exponential rate compared to other methods. Social regulations...interestingly my point exactly...why is that? if harvest is harvest? many people have no-idea spearfishing is legal in some areas, perhaps if people like me scream loud enough the "social Pressure" can effect changes in regulations have you ever shot a trout? post a pic please...and who on here would be cool with legalizing spearfishing on Taney? the spearfishing is the activity, someplace its legal some not...poaching is when someone shoots walleyes out of stockton vs beaver where its legal. if I get lucky I can land 4 walleyes all over 8#....yet the odds of that are low...yet all you have to do is SEE them to shoot them, If spearfishing was so benign it would be legal everywhere...its not and MOST states would call it poaching, just like spot lighting deer or shooting turkeys off the roost, I use hunting metaphor because it is FISH HUNTING...and a very dangerous one at that

to your question one there was a recent fish kill on pomme where big walleyes and muskies were dieing #2 bow fishing has had negative effects in several waters across the USA, several species have almost been shot to extinction, Alligator Gar is now being raised in hatcheries at one time bounties were paid, but it wasn't till modern compound bows and quality lights did it have an impact of fish populations.....as far as spearfishing, whats stable all waters? all are flux from good year class spawns to poor ones, as far as spear fishermen tend to harvest disproportionately more of the largest of that species, how would you feel if they arrowed a 15# brown? harvest is harvest right? its not legal to shoot browns or bass...why not if nothing is wrong with it???? walleyes get poached I have some pics somewhere with holes in them, a double digit LMB was shot in Oklahoma this spring, and an 80#+ flathead was poached in Missouri, they guy would have got away with it but submitted the fish for a record saying he caught it on a limb line I am not a big fan of putting a knife to nice sized smallmouths ether, have not seen many posts here on filleting big brow trout ether, when they do I am sure ill make a comment in a perfect world, lets say for this case LMB could have the top end fish running 9-13 pounds we have had a few lakes produce those size fish in the past, those 6# fish must get released to have a chance to even sniff its size potential , and over time big fish genetics get fished down, will some die from old age, I would hope so...it would mean that floater 12# bass had passed its genes on to numerous generations, more big fish would be great but you would have fish of all sizes working their way up, now a bass would be VERY lucky to survive getting kept or die from being mishandled in the many years it takes to hit 8# much less 12#, its why you do not see numbers of fish that size in TR anymore we are closer to agreement on many issues than you think, most states do not allow spearfishing or bow fishing for bass walleyes and Muskies....some do, understanding how this was achieved would surprise you, apathy about methods of harvest typically gets new regs passed, until a firestorm of public opinion happens I feel spear fishermen tend to harvest disproportionately more of the largest of species, the MDC said in regards to the poached flathead - that man’s actions took away the potential for a fishermen to catch a once in a life-time fish, its how I feel about shooting that huge long ear...its more a metaphor to the issues of selecting and removing the very biggest be it a sunfish, walleye, striper, and even a common carp

why do you think we don't have those kind of catches now? is it because of those hyper effective methods?... over time genetics suffer, we are paying the price today......over harvest has destroyed more quality fisheries, perhaps you can take a step back and see...once you see LMB avg sizes crash on TR or more muskie die at Pomme due to bad water conditions....big huge fish of any species are special, eat smaller fish, photo release the big uns, to grace another angler and spread its exceptional genes..if you need a wall mount replicas abound now...unfortunately stabbing methods will not allow that... I expect salty retort...if you didn't I am not doing well explaining

personally all stabbing methods where legal should have a MAX size no fish over a certain size.... harvest IS in the tool box of fisheries management. if everyone is so gungho about harvest perhaps you can share your best spots with a spear fisherman? no...? if it about staying in the legal limits?..... be-darned the method!.... then you shouldn't oppose filling your tag shooting turkeys off the roost or a huge buck at night blinded by a spotlight...or have your own shock boat....every nay sayer think my views are alone on this...you would be wrong my views on this are the growing trend more anglers today fish for fun with fish dinner is the reason people fish fading,..the quality of fishing have faded in our area on the average, put and take fishing grows more and more expensive and is un-sustainable over time and when budgets get cut in economic down turns fishing suffers, reductions in trout bag limits will continue 5...now 4....then 2....then one.......how long will it take? these changes will accelerate with habitat degradation, something we are already seeing in our area, way too many nutrients making there way into our waters some places in the world you can ONLT catch a couple of fish and your done... overseas atlantic salmon fishing comes to mind we will see many changes in fisheries laws test bed lakes, back in the day people got pretty salty when new rules came into effect, the reduced bag and length limits on crappie come to mind here in Missouri... the meat fisherman still fill there freezers regardless of bag limits but those types of anglers are fewer and fewer...and with smart phones in everyones pocket people get busted more today. as far as diving, you scubies think I haven't...you would be wrong, free diving and snorkled a lot in my youth living on the gulf, back then it was legal to gill net off the beach...things change and some will go down kicking and screaming. I remember when those said it would be a cold day in hades when carp got protected..then it started... bass tourneys will see some radical changes in the next few years- driven by the need to protect the resource most ethical anglers would be for what would help welcome to the future

prob would not have commented, yes I am not for stabbing methods, Bfing and gigging specifically spearfishing a distant 3rd, and yes asked if the floaters had holes in them, its interesting when people cringe on the question, the specter of a bad mannered Bfers causing yet another stink fest: such documenting goes hand in hand with effecting changes like was achieved in Conn. documenting economics, and realistic fisheries biology made this happen, other states we are working to get similar regulations, do I have an agenda? yes I do, I would like to see ALL angling get better, here is to 5# rainbows, 15# browns, 4# smallies, 50" muskies and 10# LMB...even 50# common carp

It is well documented the detrimental effects of spearfishing in saltwater, it was responsible for the ban on some of the larger grouper species, if spearfishing can fish down oceanic species, its reasonable to expect it wouldn't take as much to effect a highland reservoir like beaver or Bullshoals http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0051938 <---Effects of Spearfishing on Reef Fish Populations http://www.scielo.sa.cr/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&amp;pid=S0034-77442014000700024 <--Spearfishing as a potential threat to fishery sustainability https://esajournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/pdf/10.1890/09-1806.1 <---Spearfishing to depletion: evidence from temperate reef fishes https://nmsflowergarden.blob.core.windows.net/flowergarden-prod/media/archive/document_library/mgmtdocs/spearfishingresearch.pdf <---Biological Considerations of the Effects of Spearfishing https://dlnr.hawaii.gov/dar/files/2014/05/WHI_SCUBA_Background.pdf <---"General conclusions on the matter of scuba spearfishing include: (a) for several reasons, a complete ban of scuba spearfishing coupled with effective enforcement is the single most important spearfishing management measure;" I can post hundreds of studies, only a matter of time states will study and see the same results

I would like to see a max size limit on certain species all bass over a certain size released walleyes and muskies should be the same, I'd say if a test lake was implemented with regs of this nature you would see more big fish, huge bass over 13# have been taken, one was when Truman was 1st open to fishing...ever fish a farm pond that was full of 1# plus bluegills? genetics and harvest numbers effect max size...as far as comparisons..... dogs used to hunt deer...legal some places, not in others...most would say its not a fair chase, as is spotlighting...IMHO stab fishing isn't fair chase yet its legal as long as someone stays in the limits....so I ask if harvest is harvest then if someone stayed in limits why not spotlight deer? or shoot turkeys off the roost?...FAIR CHASE!....its a hard sell to anyone to suggest purposely taking the largest of any species will not overtime causes sizes to fall....fish that never get big get passed over and those offspring over time dominate a population methods that allow mass harvest for the most part have been outlawed, shooting birds off the roost along with habitat drove passenger pigeon extinct or how bison were shot to the precipice of existence, the "there are plenty of them" has been an excuse that has driven countless species to the brink did you know black buffalo are in trouble? in Oklahoma the are a species of concern and you are supposed to limit harvest to 1 fish and it must be reported to the state...yet its violated every night...alligator gar in your lifetime will be all but gone unless something is done, I have some good friends who are state biologists in a few states and in Texas the recent record Alligator gar record received so much negative feed back, TX is reviewing its harvest policies...perhaps it was when they aged the monster gar it was over 60 years old,. unlike a crappie that can be replaced in 3 years or so even for a wall hanger, that gar will take a life time, a gar spawned today the same day your child is born, would be that big till that child is retirement age. deer can reach 8 points in its 3rd year...I know this because I worked on aging studied when I went to University to be a fish and wildlife biologist.... genetics are the rage in big bucks along with nutrition...I will predict that will hit the fishing world with gusto within the next few years....it can be argued the mandate of many states fisheries is more for food or "expand opportunities", in my youth I have went through every phase an outdoorsman can meat hunting/fishing to trophy seeking....last time I mounted a fish was the late 80's....I have released some fish most would be shocked at huge walleyes, even a 2# bluegill from a pit in SE Kansas or a 4# smallmouth from elk river a dandy Neosho strain bronze back anywhere,...I am not some casual noob that hugs trees...I have probably fished more miles of rivers and streams than 95% of hard core fisherman.. I don't pull my opinions out of my arse...its taking me a life time of experience to come to these conclusions, seeing 1st hand why fishing or hunting can go south in a hurry...the fishing of my youth on the Alabama gulf coast is much different today. I see parallels here, unfettered harvest there cause fishing to suffer, with that new rules to bring back what was lost, we see that here now fishing is fading in our area, the much maligned state fisheries people have done well in our area trying to juggle all interests, but we are reaching a tipping point, the hostility towards the MDC is a prime example...

at one time the pothole was a place for ginormis walleyes....as recent at 1988 fish near the world record size where there, the state record of over 21 pounds came from Bull shoals and many many huge fish have been caught there...perhaps the quest for a huge fish be it a 1# long ear or high teens walleye or 50# common carp separates anglers from those that are just looking for a fish dinner, perhaps those anglers that covet the biggest and best tend to want see the decades it takes to grow some truly exceptional examples of species, if someone posted a 14 point 300# buck they had shot with an airbow with a spotlight or running down that buck with you pick-up? would everyone be happy on the accomplishment? sure I am sure its hard to drive a truck and how tiring it is to stay up all night chasing that monster.....its not legal to spotlight deer, most places...not legal to spearfish in Missouri, recently a couple people were busted on doing so in elk river

sad we had a fish kill, I wonder about agricultural run off? need to look a google earth and see whats up....some people do stupid things like burning tires where it can run into a lake....

you can angle for them and release them, you don't have that option after you shoot them, you can ONLY target 5# plus walleyes if you so chose, and harvest them when they won't bite...you can target areas where spawning females gather and I am sure hauling in a 300 foot gillnet full of egg heavy spoonbill is hard work and not easy so your saying you have never shot big walleyes? whens the last time BullShoals pooted out a walleye over 17#? or over 20?

holes would be easy to spot, sometimes whoopse gets made and the fish gets tossed back, but if you didn't see it, some other reason that lake seems to have more than its share of fish kills.... hope the state took samples to test...

stabbing methods targets the largest, kinda like shooting 10 point bucks with a spotlight, "Fair Chase"

my point is laws that are accepted change ..just because its legal doesn't justify doing it...are long ears in danger...NO....are habitat degradation an issue YES! New sunfish management research is being done lower bag limits and even length limits to promote larger panfish sizes, many articles have been written on this subject....I am not a fan of stabbing bass and walleyes ether

any holes in them?

most people in the general public are not so keen on "stabbing" methods of fish harvesting, with so many more people harvesting fish than in the past the quality of fish size has been hurt and it can be argued the genes to get to huge sizes are getting fished out of populations, big water can get fished down and out right collapse of the atlantic cod industry is a fine example... I have caught some huge long ears some that could push record size, never had the need to kill and eat one.... I have pics of huge walleyes stabbed, can you legally shoot a 14# walleye? yes, should you let that one get by and shoot a 3# instead? most would say yes, I would argue its far easier to stab a huge fish that angle for one, just like shooting 14 point buck with a spotlight is easier than shooting one in the daylight... so did you shoot a mess of sunfish? or just shoot that long ear because it was a huge one? what I think of you should not effect what you do...but times are a changing,....post a pic of a mishandled muskie or a bunch of bass fillets or leave a bunch of fireworks trash and beer cans on a shore or gravel bar and you will get some online grief...just the way things are now... If you says so IMHO I have talked to a few people who wanted to catch these fish, are there plenty, for now...but take the small ones to eat and pass up the largest ones yes its legal ..for now...it was once legal to own people,...hunt with punt guns and sell your harvest, and at one time passenger pigeons darkened the sky, and buffalo seemed endless on the plains...we both know how that turned out I have been asked by more than a few on where to catch these gems.... 😮