MoCarp

you can blame movies like hidalgo for that, or the round ups for the glue factory out west.... something is eating all those baby carp/buffalo, which taxonomically are hard to differentiate (key out) from many "minnow" species in a stomach evaluation until they are larger a problem for lots of critters and plants have until they reach a certain age, I still remember hauling around my taxonomy class books in University, the Steyermark being particularly heavy

<--owner of APC Media I created that video, I also have tons of raw video of carp eaters too bass get skinny with a big head because they are not getting enough food, again I would love to see studies done as to the impact of massive fish removals via Bfing and its effects on the biome as a whole... but you say they would be bad science because diet studies have already been done, I post numerous anecdotal claims of predator fish showing signs of malnutrition...when shad seem to be in vast numbers and you debate (laughably) what the definition is of anecdotal evidence is and fisheries people should ignore what people are seeing Something eats baby Buffalo and common carp, removing them will have impacts.... it will be interesting to see when studies are done...there are other state studies on whats eating eggs/larva/YOY but thats there not here.. as far as your diet requirements, thats your business, but if/when they find out whats eating baby carp...I think your diet will be a big helping of crow as far as who and how many people fish for common carp you are ether naive or being disingenuous as more anglers fish for The common carp or European carp (Cyprinus carpio) than do Muskie and people don't eat them either.. carp angling is a multi Billion dollar industry that will be far more than that here in the USA, why? you can buy every high end carp kit on the market, and it will not cost a fraction that even a cheap bass boat cost, don't need a gas hog truck to pull it or all the other associated costs as far as the definition of anecdotal evidence is: Anecdotal evidence is evidence from anecdotes, i.e., evidence collected in a casual or informal manner and relying heavily or entirely on personal testimony.

the carp have been here 140 years...THATS ONE HUNDRED AND FOURTY YEARS!...rabbits seem to be no benefit for deer populations ether....I content common carp are at worse benign to LMB/SMB/WALLEYE populations in Ozark highland Lakes, and that they contribute a highly nutritious prey item to critters that feed on them fish and all the other critters that eat them so if you haven't seen this..lots of non fish critters eat common carp

It was brought up on this very forum about how bass in Stockton seem to be skinner and weigh less for there length, shad seem to be as abundant as ever... thats not anecdotal evidence? Bfing pressure is up exponentially....I know the dad of Stockton's biologist..next time I speak to him, Ill find out if they have ever done "a what they are feeding on study" on Stockton in the last 10 years. like any aquatic biome things change and the only way to understand it is to regularly check, its why they electro/trap sample and if I remember correctly Arkansas does a Rotenone fish assessment... I would applaud a study on whats eating common carp/Buffalo eggs/larva/and YOY... so your saying we should not explore the possibility that removing a highly nutritious (even higher than rainbow trout) possible prey items? and doing so is "bad science"? I agree..because of that, I would like to see the unlimited harvest of Common Carp go back to the 20 in aggregate like it was in the past

good points... perhaps more detailed studies on the biodiversity of benthic critters would be in order? most great fishing seems to have a diverse aquatic populations, less diversity are never as good I think people moving dirt and erosion in general caused the gravel to find its way into our creeks, deforestation in the past of the Ozarks washed tonnage of gravel into the streams, I still think we are still paying the price for that, wintering holes on many streams are less deep,....food for though at least

I think we all agree a big quake would be a bad thing, but public preparedness would help mediate damages and loss of life, watching and trying to understand any water loss (if any) would prudent ....water loss into the fault system seem to make a big quake more likely ( lube effect like happens in fracking if indeed water injection truly causes the quakes)

Beaver Island lake flats fishing for carp, Lake Michigan's crystal clear flats, also impacted by over harvest of common carp via Bfing..(oh yeah smallmouth fishing pretty good too)

anecdotal evidence is the meat and potatoes of the whats going on here questioning that leads to scientific studies, the recent revelation that show black basses feeding on asian carp and getting fat off them, arguably contributing to the resurgence to back bass (and other minnow eating fish) in the Illinois river system, 1st perceptions can be flawed. Example The round goby (Neogobius melanostomus) in the great lakes were supposed to decimate the black bass population, but what happened was the bass gorged on the new prey item and smallmouth bass populations boomed just like the zebra muscle infestation in lake Michigan, creating better fishing and water clarity that looks like a Caribbean Island vacation instead of the cesspool the great lakes had become

so are you inferring a nonexistent or over harvested common carp/buffalo population = a superior back bass population in highland lakes? or our lakes are turbid because of benthic feeding fish? (common carp, buffalo, and associated sucker species) and if common carp are in what way hurting black bass populations in ozark highland reservoirs? Something is eating common carp eggs, larva, and YOY, if they were not we would be eye deep in commons in our highland reservoirs, considering the high fecundity of fish like common carp and buffalo (fecundity doesn't in itself guarantee spawning success)

I don't see as many madtoms, in fact can't remember the last time I saw one, guys used to rig a metal net on a long pole to dip them out of the gravel on the elk river drainage...a bit of micro fishing at night might be in order.....used to be a bunch to sculpins in RR...since the holes are less deep.....unsure of them ether they might frown on a long handled net ar the park.... chytrid fungus has devastated amphibians world wide, crawfish have been less diverse, I know some of the same creeks in Jasper co. have less depth than before, old timers tell me the same thing, so its been going on a while, I know of a spring on a creek crossed by I44 that was buried during road /bridge work and that section is VERY different since..personally I feel they should restore the creeks by the bridges, even if it means dredging out the influx of gravel 12 months later...their attempts to keep soil and gravels from washing in is a joke...no oversight on this at all

its to show great common carp fishing and great "game fishing" in this case Large mouth bass can and do co-exsist in many waters, and it seems removing huge numbers of common carp and Buffalo from some waters seem to be impacting LMB in some waters (big heads - skinny bodies) Kill off all the rabbits, foxes/bobcats/hawks don't eat as well, or worse eat more quail... Lady Bird lake (formally Town Lake) in Austin, Texas. has had a one common carp 33" limit for over a decade and has had ZERO negative effect of game fishing, some of the best big bass fishing in the state is in that lake, (great panfishing as well) I'd love to see a study in our area on whats eating the billions of common carp eggs, larva and YOY common carp in our Missouri Lakes. there are some interesting studies on the impact of the true asian carp on predator species. how it hashes out good vs bad? only time will tell http://msue.anr.msu.edu/news/asian_carp_being_eaten_by_native_fish_new_studies_find https://www.bassmaster.com/conservation-news/bass-fishing-rebounding-illinois-river http://michiganradio.org/post/bass-getting-fat-invasive-fish <--gobies but same idea diff fish What about Buffalo suckers? In a healthy water, common carp are not harmful, and can provide sport for anglers and quality forage for bass walleyes and pike/muskies..negative impacts in some lakes (eutrophic silt laden lakes) too many commons (and buffalo) can make the water more turbid, making it difficult for some water plants to accomplish photosynthesis, in one study lake the common carp were removed to a more manageable level, and along with uncorking springs that historically fed the lake, water clarity did improve, and so did weed growth. so much so the lake became so weed choked, they have to spend hundreds of thousands of $ to mow the weeds, swimming beaches still kept being closed, so then they blamed geese, they were removed..guess what?..beaches STILL had to be closed, why? google earth lake Wingra in Madison, WI, see where the water comes from that drains into the lake. If I look for a water that has great common carp fishing, its always has a great predator base, having both is not a either or situation! as far as managing invasive species for the benefit of Trophy Fisheries we do it for Brown Trout in the state of Missouri, Browns are documented to negatively impact native species, and is listed as one of the worst Invasive (INCN list) offenders in the USA... blamed directly for extinctions of native species in North America, Ringneck pheasants (Asian) negatively impacts native species, and have displaced prairie chickens through out their former ranges. Managing "non-natives" is done in every state in the USA...Common Carp were in our white river chain of lakes before the dams went in, been here for over 140 years stocked on purpose in the 1870's by the U.S. Commission of Fish and Fisheries I love this quote from History of Common Carp in North America by the National Park Service A Fish once Prized, Now Despised "By the turn of the century, the introduction of the carp was such a "success" that both public agencies and sportsmen had come to regard the fish as a nuisance. While tons of free-swimming carp were being harvested from area waters, they were comparable in taste to neither the selectively bred pool-cultivated carp of Europe nor, it was believed, to many of the native "game" species, and were thus useless as a food source. Moreover, their rapid spread appeared to threaten both water quality and native species, as commissioners nationwide noted a deterioration of formerly clear and fertile lakes and waterways upon the arrival of carp. Standing on clear-cut hillsides with a bucket of garbage in each hand, they looked down on the rivers, saw carp swirling happily in the mess humans had created, and made a correlation - albeit the wrong one - between the rise of carp and the fall of game fish. Either ignorant of or blind to the damages they themselves had wrought on the landscape, people looked past the dredged and straightened channels, drained wetlands, eroded riverbanks, and waters laden with human and industrial waste, saw carp roiling in the shallows, and accused them of wrecking the water. (Buffler and Dickson, p. 74)." Common carp can enhance fishing opportunities if properly managed like any other fish, people do fish for them with a passion that rivals bass/trout/muskie fishing, and more are every day..removing common carp does not mean bass, walleye and crappie fishing gets better, it seems it can make it worse by removing a major high nutritional prey item. Managing for better common carp fishing does not mean sacrificing quality fishing for bass/walleyes/trout/pike/muskies or even panfish

So are you one of those ball peen hammer Math challenged, " I'll make it fit" boat wrenches?

A fish spawned in a hatchery this spring will not get this big in your lifetime, half this size in 30 years, killing it and removing it or others like it can't be replaced, Promoting C & R fishing allows these fish to be enjoyed by more than one person...just saying 197 pound, 7.39 foot alligator Gar Texas State record PWD research biologists confirmed the new alligator gar bow fishing water body record for the Brazos River is 60-years-old, among the oldest fish aged and documented by the department. https://tpwd.texas.gov/newsmedia/releases/?req=20171013a https://www.facebook.com/texasparksandwildlife/photos/a.84866843692.83704.48009558692/10155140946313693/?type=3&theater

be interesting to watch how this plays out

one things for sure we will know if it is draining into a fault, reading the historical accounts of the big quake was scary

Most of the Mississippi River drainage has had by all measures a "wet" year....if there has been changes to the new madrid fault, and the big Mexico quake rattled things up, water seeping in would not be a good thing....lots of chatter on social media...just seems very odd.

Has anyone heard of this???? buddy of mine out of state gave me a heads up about this, considering all the rain that area has received from the Tropical storms/hurricanes seems odd, a quick google and the conspiracy communities people are screaming that the Mexico earth quake caused changes in the fault zone, anyone else in that area or have family there hear about this? have not heard anything on any main stream news source

they have numbers shoots- big 4 fish - big 20....from my understanding its "team" totals so 4 guys can shoot 20 natives (gar-buff-suckers-bowfin) per person and weigh in JUST the best fish... be it 4 fish or 20 fish or any combo the tourney puts out..and the solo big fish pot....common carp, grass carp Asian carp, can be taken in any numbers in Missouri...the largest fish are targeted...and the amount shot can be staggering...how many are culled and not included in the boat barrel would only be known by those in the boat..many on this very forum have been behind guys Bfing and followed the floating dead fish trail...you don't have to worry about fish disposal if you dump them as you shoot them, and certainly easy to not go over your 20 fish native limit if they are not in your boat....when Buffs and commons concentrate during a spring spawning run, you can hammer the population and possibly disrupt spawning success, many of the big tourneys target the spawn..you can imagine how for example if this was white bass, even that prolific species could get drastically reduced... if they were consistently targeted during the spawning run..you can bet fish that survived might get the hell out of dodge and avoid the spawn!.... I know its had an effect on TR/Stockton/Bull shoals as numbers are way down as well as sizes anecdotal evidence for sure... but a few years ago it was an Alabama, Biologist that noticed Alligator Gar in The Blakeley River, an eye shot from their office, were not as noticeable gulping air from the surface, easy to spot when the fish are as big as gator gar an anecdotal situation....as they investigated they found that Bfing had decimated the population, Mobile bay/delta is huge, and that revelation if it could happen there, spread like wild fire through the fisheries Community, and this is why the new regulations where enacted and alligator gar received protections and started being raised in hatcheries to re-establish in former ranges were they had been wiped out.... Granted I am into common carp/Buff fishing, but Buffalo are native, and common carp are naturalized even before the dams were built in Missouri, to think that taking literally hundreds of thousands of pounds of these fish won't have an effect on the fish they feed on their YOY is short sided at best or disingenuous at worse, should it be studied..yes...how? best you might do is require gathering data at tourney weigh-ins...but no ones going to say oh we shot 1200 fish at Stockton the other weekend, dumped them back in as we shot....ever wonder about a zillion turtles hanging out in an area???

The "money fish" in a Bfing tourney are Buffs or grass carp.. where available they are heaver usually than most other "rough fish"...other areas they do shoot the asian carp...but the silvers won't win a big 4 or big 20....bigheads would but not sure how easy it is to shoot them like other asian carp

I always ran into people that turned up their nose at eating wild game, some of the bet food I ever had was wild harvested, elk back strap steaks wrapped in bacon, better than any Ruth's Chris Steak House, fresh mallard cooked in a slow cooker slathered in Orange Marmalade, mushrooms and squirrel....but you get the idea

What about white river strain that produced a near world record?

Chuffas are not just for Turkey food plots

Some Pics were altered to hide landmarks

"bass pro national bowfishing tournaments" and numerous other tourneys on LOZ/Truman/Pomme de Terre/Stockton, and Tablerock over the last 5 years have removed hundreds of thousands of pounds of "roughish" granted its anecdotal evidence, but posters on OAF have spoken on how the Buffs are not as thick on Truman and LOZ, numbers and sizes are down for the euro anglers that I know in this area, You would be surprised how many Euro and Fly anglers that chase common carp... there are more euro carp anglers nationally than Muskie anglers Again anecdotal evidence in some lakes seem to show a less robust largemouth bass population (larger heads in relation to body mass) in lakes that have received a massive uptick of roughish harvest (bow fishing) lake Stockton here, and one that comes to mind is Lake Eufaula in Alabama lake Michigan, 22,300 square miles of surface area, a huge inland sea, one lake Michigan area tourney boasts of a record 287k...by their local group alone, its having such an impact the Fly Fishing carp guides ( yes there are carp guides all over the USA) are complaining that this year their numbers were way down because of bow-fishing.....and bow fishing is way way bigger here than in MI. I would love to see numbers tracked on harvest, but the practice of shoot and release is an un-enforced dodge of the 20 native fish harvest in Missouri, common carp are unlimited and were changed back when the push to slow the true asian carp, before commons were part of the 20 a day reg....only during tourneys do we have an idea on how many fish get taken, and the poundages are staggering..... Black Buffalo are a only one fish a day rule like alligator gar in Oklahoma.... yet I can post pic after pic of Oklahoma Bow Fishing where numbers of buffalo are taken, many dumped at a boat ramp or tossed to rot in the sun by the side of the road. even here on OAF we have posters speak of fish tossed in dumpsters and barrels at boat ramps... in closing more people enjoy carp fishing than the general fishing public knows, one reason I am on forums like OAF, I get calls from UK carp bait/tackle providers about our "emerging market" here...new regulations are coming in states, as they become law I'll gladly post them up here... we have a couple of "World Class " guide worthy Carp Fisheries here, they would get pounded to prevent carp being treated like bass and walleyes, if they get divulged, one reason I don't post personal captures anymore The heart beat of American Carp Angling is in Bartlesville, Oklahoma, David Moore (owner big carp tackle & one of Outdoor Life's 20 best anglers on the planet) has done more for carp angling in the USA than about anyone I know..Al if your interested, I invite you (and anyone else thats truly interested) to a euro carp fishing social BCT is holding near the KS border, the last weekend of October 27-28-29th..just PM me for details... https://www.outdoorlife.com/photos/gallery/fishing/saltwater/inshore/2011/05/meet-20-best-anglers-planet http://greatlakesecho.org/2017/08/09/anglers-target-bowfishermen-for-carp-decrease/ http://news.jrn.msu.edu/capitalnewsservice/2017/08/16/anglers-target-bowfishing-for-carp-decrease/ https://www.glc.org/dailynews/20170809-bowfishermen-carp

a river or stream would have to be at or above carrying capacity, and thats assuming suckers etc are competing directly with each other...grey foxes and coyotes live in the same area, yet each fills a different biological niche, and when pressed most will not guarantee removal of all "rough" fish will make game fishing bigger and better....most renovations I have studied, usually claim successes when they remove ALL fishes then start from scratch...no-harvest after the renovation allows fishing to be a temporary boom, but the lake soon falls back and the lake gets renovated again..IMHO over harvest is the bugaboo..some waters can't sustain old school harvest levels....add source point pollution issues and is gets dicey...most trout are put and take not really fair to use a wild habitat management model...