Kicknbass

I'll quibble w/ the 15/3 limit. A 15" fish is an old fish that should swim to fight another day, but not a trophy if someone wants Harvey Wallhanger. I've always like the slot idea. Maybe a 4/1 -12/20 slot. This would allow those who would like to keep a few to eat to have their cake (4 sub 12" and/or 1 trophy size 20+) and trophies too. Once a fish reaches 12" it's protected until it reaches trophy size of 20". I believe plenty would reach the protected slot to produce a great fishery with this type of reg. Texas has this type of slot on Lake Fork that seams to work.

I have owned beagles in the past, and they were not "trained" to run deer. However, they did, not by my will, but by instinct. I would take them rabbit hunting and if we jumped a deer, look out, they were gone. It took quite some time to break them of this problem. It would have been very unfortunate if some one would have shot them because it was "legal" to do so. I was fortunate on a hunt out at Busch wildlife when they got on a deer and took off. It ruined the hunt. They were gone, and we spend most of the day hunting beagles rather than hunting rabbits. Fortunately for us, my beagles didn't run across this guy from the park service. One of my two dogs was picked up by another hunter 2 or 3 days later and I received a phone call that this fellow had my dog. 4 or 5 days later, I receive a call from the folks at Busch that the other dog was found at the gun range. I was able to get both my dogs back. After that, they never ran deer. This problem at Buffalo likely could have been handled differently. Most law enforcement folks are good people. However, not all. This was likely done by the latter. It would have been nice if the Park Service would have given the paper a statement to justify the act.

Like SMS said. Put in at winter park and you'll be fine in higher water. If the water gets low, be careful. I'm not that familiar w/ the water up stream until you get to hwy 141. There is a shoal at 141 that you likely won't be able to go above. Take care.

I get that concept, but I don't recall anything on the website stating that, or during the sign in point. Even the rejection email doesn't indicate a membership requirement. Only rejection w/o a stated reason. Pretty weak.. I don't feel to compelled to send them any money at this point.

Your not looking too hard for members. When I went to your website and tried to join the forum I got 2 emails. The first email: Your registration request at Missouri Smallmouth Alliance has been received, Kicknbass. Before you can login and start using the forum, your request will be reviewed and approved. When this happens, you will receive another email from this address. Regards, The Missouri Smallmouth Alliance Team. The second email: Kicknbass, Regrettably, your application to join Missouri Smallmouth Alliance has been rejected. Regards, The Missouri Smallmouth Alliance Team. Very weak. I'd look to another way to market your organization..

What size motor? If your running a small motor like a 25, you will be fine. Just slow down and grind through the shoals. We use to run small motors on the river all the time. Anything larger and your at risk of tearing up a lower unit.

http://www.ets-systems.com/ Check out the reports on this web site. I have fished w/ Marc Mitchell several times. Mostly up the Big Caney Creek arm. With your small boat I would recommend this arm. The main lake by mustang resort gets a lot of boat traffic. The Big Caney creek arm is less developed. Good luck.

Rock ON

There is just a lot of territory that is difficult to access. The birds close to the access roads get hit pretty quick. In the big timber, once the birds stop gobbling, the hunting gets tough. It's not like hunting in open country were the birds get out at strut in the mid morning and they can be located by glassing. When they shut up, they disappear into the vast forest. If you get into birds, they do come to call pretty easily, if you get positioned well. I've had some great hunts, and I've had years where I could locate the birds. But you always have the river to fall back on when the birds aren't cooperating. I keep returning for the river fishing, not the birds. The birds are a bonus.

Get ready to do a lot of walking...The birds always seem to be on the other mountain.

you can get a camera that suits this purpose for about $80-90

Get a small cheap digital and put it on a lanyard around your neck. I'm sure you don't step off that deep often.

Sam, Your absolutely correct. Those same people keep bass out of season, short bass, over the limit, it doesn't matter as to what the law says, they don't care. But know one is advocating for the limiting of or elimination of rod and reel fishing quite as loudly as those suggesting limiting gigging in this thread. Enforcement is the correct path. Just an occasional license check at the boat ramps would help some. The presence of law enforcement is powerful. I know the agents can't catch the bad guys all the time and the resources are limited. I've heard the arguments before. However, this is the first step that needs to change, before considering changing the law. I would be curious to know how many "operation game thief" reports are filed w/ the MDC regarding gigging of game fish. I'm sure the state has this information. You guys catching SMB w/ gig marks should be taking photos and filing OGT reports when you have hard evidence the illegal activity is taking place. With this information the MDC would have better knowledge as to the best areas to target their enforcement presence to help curtail the illegal activity. That being said, an occasional game fish is being gigged by folks that are by all intentions trying to be law abiding. I have a funny gigging story to tell regarding an illegally gigged walleye. My father is a very experience gigger, and can easily identify game fish from legal suckers. Unfortunately for him, on this one gigging trip, he took one of the church deacons, his son, and the preacher on a gigging trip. Now the deacon and the preacher had been gigging before, but they didn't have a lot of gigging experience. My dad always made a point to stop and check the tub for game fish prior to coming into the boat ramp just to verify that all the fish taken that night were legal. On this particular night, he ran through the usual routine and stopped on a gravel bar upstream from the boat ramp to check the tub, and gut the fish. Just like most nights, all the fish were suckers, nothing out of the ordinary all the fish were legal. Well, they still had a couple of holes to gig through before they got to the boat ramp to take out, and the deacon and preacher stayed on the front of the boat to gig while dad motored back to the ramp. They picked up a couple of additional small fish on the way back, nothing unusual (or so they thought). Upon arriving at the ramp, who was there to meet them, but the local MDC agent. After showing fishing licenses, and small talk, the agent ask to check the fish. Upon checking the tub of fish, the agent found a small walleye in the tub on top of the gutted suckers. One of the fish picked up on the way back to the ramp after gutting the fish was a illegal game fish. Neither the preacher or the deacon would admit to gigging the walleye. Dad ended up with the citation since he owned the boat, he was so irritated, but what do you do. I promise you none of the men in the boat intended on killing a game fish, but with out a doubt it does happen. Walleye have a mottled appearance similar to a hog sucker. An experience fisherman can tell the difference, but it is difficult if you don't have a fair amount of experience. I promise, had my dad found that illegal fish prior to the game warden, he wouldn't have turned himself in like fishgypsy's father, that fish would have been released to be caught a few days later by Al or one of his winter fishing guru's.

That turkey hunting story is funny. I guess my expectations of what people do and what you think that people should do are slightly different. In a perfect world, I guess you could except someone that mistakenly gigs a game fish or doubles up on a turkey or kills a hen pheasant, to drive to the nearest agent and turn themselves in. I certainly wouldn't think this behavior is wrong, but, I would not expect this kind of unbelievable honestly from the majority of folks that I know.

Yes we also shouldn't drive to fast or after you'd been drinking. You should honor thy mother and thy father..Blah Blah Blah...Imperfection is part of the human condition. Ye who are perfect cast the first stone.... There's no excuse for it, but it happens... Let's take away the rights of all do to the transgressions of a few.

Thanks. How long was that gigged bass?

Is that stretch of water regularly clear enough to gig throughout the season, or is this a stretch that is clear only during the coldest part of the season. I'm just curious as to the realistic duration of the gigging events in this stretch. You could be correct to think that they were criminally careless, or it could be the fish are surviving the injury and it has occurred from several folks over the course of a 4 month season. Obviously they were careless if the injuries were accidental. I just don't believe these bass were intentionally gigged, and then return back to the water.

Leonard, The photos in your PMS recipe are not showing due to the photobucket account is inactive. FYI.

What were the fish hitting on? Soft plastics, Stickbaits, live bait?

Looks like catch and release gigging. Just kidding, that's not funny. It is probably the result of a mis-identified fish. That water is pretty murky, it would be easy to mistake a specie is that water. It doesn't look like typical gigging water. This stretch of river probably rarely clears up enough to be good gigging water, likely only a few days in the late season after a cold dry spell. What was the visibility the day of your fishing trip? At what depth could you identify a fish on the bottom? 2-3 feet? I've gigged a lot of fish over the years and I'm not going to dispute that those marks were made by a gig. It look's like a classic gig mark to me. Rarely to all the "points" of the gig hit the fish. If you have a good gig, it only takes one to hold a small fish. How big was that bass? 15" +/- The person that took it was probably extremely disappointed to find a game fish on the end of his gig. Unfortunately, S##t happens, not unlike hooking one deep in the gills. Too bad.

OH.....What was I thinking???

Your story still doesn't justify the 300 / 1 1/2 hour quote. Sure the 60/20 ratio meets the statement, but the 20 fish limit caps the number of fish at the limit. Even the most insane game-hog will look a the tub of fish and realize that they must clean the nasty mess and stop killing fish. I guess if your counting every boat on the river, or every boat in the state in a given 1 1/2 hour period the quote could be deemed accurate. I don't believe that was the intend or the way the message was received. I've had nights that we have been on a 3 fish per minute rate for a period of time as well, this is rare, and not sustainable for long. I can't imagine cleaning a mess of 300 fish.

Google fly fishing west yellowstone. I'm sure you can come up w/ something. I know there is a fly shop in west yellowstone, I think it is Bud Lilleys fly shop. They should be able to hook you up.

Since you have gigged before, then you understand that 300 fish in an 1 1/2 hour stretch is an extreme exaggeration a little more than efficient. It's crazy talk. I don't think the outdoor sports need to be efficient for folks to enjoy the experience. Maybe you expect to catch a limit each time you hit the water or woods, but I believe most just enjoy being out on the water or field and the pursuit or chase is actually what is desired, not the catch or the kill. Folks that gig are a little hardier that most. Kinda like waterfowlers, Ya gotta be a little goofy to head out into the cold damp darkness, some times breaking ice to get into the river, using salt on your gig-pole to keep the ice from freezing on your gig-pole, just to pursue a bunch of bony fish. As I'm sure you know, most game is more active at night, and being out on the river is no exception. You'll see beaver, coons, deer, all kinds of game at night while out on the river. Fishing is just a minor part of the reason most go, an excuse to get out. It is quite challenging to get the gig in the water in a manner to spear a spooky sucker. It's a lot like sight fishing for trout, you make the wrong move and the fish are gone, too deep to see or behind cover. For the experienced gigger, it becomes natural, kind of like throwing a baseball or riding a bike, but for the novice, it is very frustrating being made look so simple by the experience gigger, but yet deeming extremely difficult for the novice.

y2k, olive woolly, cherise san jaun, and if they are running water like the last week lots of lead.