CBNMO

I checked at the gas station today, they have night crawlers and frozen shad, but no flies. Guess I got confused, again. Seems to happen more often, the older I get.

Danoinark, I was able to save the report to my hard drive as you said. The way my window is set up, I clicked on File, Save As, then directed it where to put it on my hard drive. Took about 5 minutes to save it on my old computer. Size is 21.4 MB. Thanks for the help ! I think besides helping cover some costs for the conference, it has that added benifit, for them. I think it would be great for someone to go and get a feel for where this is headed. Anyone available that is interested in sitting through this for 2 days? I'll be glad to donate.

Hello folks, For those of you that are not aware, there is interest in damming up Indian Creek to create a 3,800 acre reservoir to supply drinking water, to Joplin and several surrounding communities in Missouri, Kansas and Oklahoma. This is to meet projected water needs by the year 2050. There is a discussion on the Conservation Forum, titled "New Report On Reservoir Locations". There is another that is on the Crane Creek Forum. The Conservation Forum appears to be most active one now. Per the report, the two most likely sites are on Crane Creek in the East, and another on Indian Creek, to serve the Western side of the area in the report. Here is a link to the report, you can read it for yourselves. Indian Creek is listed as site #8. http://www.news-leader.com/assets/pdf/DO13816678.PDF Disscuss this here, as well as please come to the Conservation Forum and participate there also. This affects us all. I didn't see any info here so thought I'd pass this on,in case your not aware of it.

Chief, here is the link: http://www.news-leader.com/assets/pdf/DO13816678.PDF It is the report, not just a newspaper article. I don't know how long this link will remain, so you might want to print it out if it's important to ya. Total is 126 pages. I don't know if this site can, or wants to, support a copy of it here? I've read this a couple times because I live in the area. I think above I said that it would impact 17 miles of Crane Creek, but the report says: "estimated 17 miles of perennial and 10 miles of intermittent streams would potentially be impacted". It does NOT say 17 miles of Crane Creek. Sorry if I mis-typed/quoted, earlier. I like to try and keep the facts correct here so we don't get misled on our own ;-) The conclusion says roughly, that damming Crane Creek would be cheaper than pumping from Table Rock, and about the same cost as pumping from Stockton. IF, they could get approval. Just as important is the other proposed site for the Western side of the area. Site 8 is a proposal to dam Indian Creek in McDonald County and create a 3,800 acre lake to pump water to the Joplin treatment plant. As they say, click on the above link and "READ ALL ABOUT IT !"

Great idea, I'm sure the local business owners will appreciate your view. I think mainly it's important to visit with folks and let them know why your here. Ask about the fishing on the creek or whatever. Most folks aroung here are friendly. Even if you only go in and buy a sody pop, take a minute and let the clerk know you are here from Kansas (or wherever) to fish on the creek. If you can get a good deal on a new truck here then great. Never hurts to ask. There is a good bar-b-que joint north of town on 13 about where the turnoff to the access is. Across the road from the auto rebuilder that has a zebra in the yard sometimes. It's not marked real well but had great food. I heard it's changed hands since I ate there last but bet it's still good. I don't eat out much so can't speak for the other places. Someone told me the Catfish House closed? Gas prices are usually pretty good here. I've never had any problems with the gas either. I'll have to stop and check, the gas station by the Ford dealer, I think they might have a few flies in there sometimes? I can't remember, I live closer to one of the other stations so frequent it mostly. There's Subway, a little pizza joint in the building where the License Bureau is, cafe on Main Street, another on 13 just north of Main Street, couple of tire stores and mechanics, a audio shop and what not stores on Main Street too. You can even get your tractor or baler fixed here too. If the snakes run you off the creek, take a couple minutes and check out the town. Stop by, slow down, relax and enjoy your visit. And Good Fishing.

Chief, proposed size is 2,300 acres. The folks that are proposing these lakes, (NOT ME), are doing so with the perception that the new lakes are a eco friendly solution to the problem! Capture surface water before it runs off to Table Rock, the White River and down to the Mississippi. Don't shoot the messenger 8>) 1. The lake on Crane Creek only has the capacity to supply what Springfield says they will need. Monett and the other towns would have to come up with their own supply, from another new lake closer to Joplin. This lake is only to supply the city of Springfield. 2. The water supply would be a little water from Crane Creek, runoff from rains, but the majority of the supply is to be pumped from the James River. They want the water supply from the James! The only reason it is being proposed to build the dam on Crane Creek, is that it is easier and cheaper to get permitting on a smaller stream. (again, I'm only pointing out what the report says) 3. I don't think the people around Crane will have a big voice in this when the time comes. I think it will be decided by the folks in Springfield. I'm sorry if some here think that I care about the cost, I don't care how much the folks in Springfield pay for water. I pay to pump my own. I'm just tring to point out that when the time comes, the decision makers will weigh in the costs. We have to convince Springfield, we're preaching to the choir here boys.

First I have no financial interest, one way or the other. I don't live near Crane Creek and don't know anyone that does. I have the same concerns as everyone else. I was just trying to state the facts from both sides, as I see them. I think that is being open - minded ? One difference between a dam here and the ones on Shoal Creek, this one is proposed to be 110 foot tall storage dam. Shoal Creek dams are what, 20 - 30 foot ? Shoal Creek dams are also "run of the river" type dams. The pools created on Shoal Creek sustain the same fisheries above the dams as they do below them. Is this not (mostly) correct ? They propose to pump water from James River into this reservoir. I don't know what the temperature differential is between the two bodies of water? Standing water in a 100' deep reservoir does increase in temperature. I expect the water temp of the reservoir to be quite a bit higher than Crane Creek. The city of Springfield dumps their (treated) sewage into the James River. I dont' know what effect pumping this water into the lake would have on the lakes water chemistry? Does anyone else ? The new lake COULD have no swimming restrictions like Lake Eucha in Oklahoma. Could be restricted to no outboards larger than X HP, or no 2 cycle outboards, or no gas motors, or no boats allowed? Possible. Stockton, Truman and Table Rock water supplies were mentioned early in this report. Others already have the rights to this water and don't want cities and farmers taking it away from them. With water tables dropping, well drilling is not a good option. The next best proposal is to capture surface water in one or more lakes. (per the report) One option would be limit the local communities to the water capacity they already have available. Make them become more conservative, and when that's not enough, folks will quit digging up fields and quit bulldozing woodlots, and they will qut building new houses, stores and factories. When there isn't enough water to sustain everyone, folks will start moving on to other towns and states and leave our enviroment alone. (ok that's extreme, but it was fun to say ;-)

This is not about damming all of Crane Creek. If you look at the map of Crane Creek on this site, under the Crane Creek forum, in the bottom right is where Quail Spur Road crosses the creek. To the west, the next road makes a 90 degree turn to the south. The lake would only come to about half way between these two roads. It looks like the lake would only come up to the lower edge of the Blue Ribbon Section of Crane Creek. I don't know, so can someone share with us the importance of the stream, from here down to the James ?

First, I don't think Dutch is a troll, just pointing out a view shared by many others. Face it, there is not a large number of folks fishing Crane Creek and spending a ton of money in town everyday. At least not that's seen. What I do see is several boats going to or from Table Rock stopping and getting gas and such. That is seen as an asset to the ecomony. Maybe a bass boat dragging behind a pickup is just much more noticable than a fly pole tucked in the car? I live a few miles from Crane, am not a Trout fisher and didn't have any idea the importance of this creek until I started visiting this site. I expect others in the area are as unimformed as I was? I expect if you reley on the locals, they may see the posibility of a reservoir as a possible boost to the economy? As mentioned above, as a water source for Springfield it would surely have similar restrictions as Springfield Lake has. Under the endangered/threatened portion of the report, I think there is 2 species of bats and the Ozark Cave Fish mentioned. They do not list the McCloud Trout Are they threatened or engangered? Should they be on this report too? Perhaps if they are listed then fishing for them would be stopped too? I don't know, just asking. By the map in the report, it looks like the lake would come up to within maybe 2 or 3 stream miles (downstream) of Crane? Just a guess. The limit on the size of the lake is the town of Hurley. Guess they don't want to buy out most of the town so the lake looks like it would come to about a mile downstream of Hurley. The next alternative to damming Crane Creek, is damming James River. Given a choice between the 2, I bet you will find a lot more folks voting to dam Crane Creek, as there are more users on the James? And there's a bunch of folks in Springfield that really don't care about Crane Creek, James River, McCloud trout or bats or cave fish. They will only read what's put in th paper saying they need more water and these are the 2 cheapest choices. Guess how they will vote?

Poke 'Em, if you read the report, http://www.news-leader.com/assets/pdf/DO13816678.PDF on page 7 it states "In all, 14 different potential reservoir sites were identified, four of which are off-channel reservoir sites. These were located on smaller tributaries with varying levels of pumping assumed from an adjacent major river channel. Off-channel reservoirs tend to be easier to obtain appropriate permitting approval". The way I understand this, the proposal, IS, to dam up Crane Creek, then pump water from the James River into this new reservoir ? Page 29 states, ". . . it was estimated that approximately 17 miles of perennial and 10 miles of intermittent streams would potentially be impacted." I read this to mean that 17 miles of Crane Creek would be dammed up ? * Correction * It does not actually say 17 miles of Crane Creek, just perennial streams. * Correction * Site 10a is Crane Creek. Proposed to be 2,300 acres, maximum dam height of 110 feet, annual Yield of 59 million gallons/day. We all expect our community leaders to plan for our future needs. Per this report, Crane Creek Reservoir has the lowest Unit Cost of all the studied sites.

Are you saying boats stop and fish where you are? Or that when you leave and go to another spot, that they actually follow you and start fishing there too? Last time I fished Beaver, I had fished an area for an hour or so and no bites, was gonna leave and a guide boat pulled in and started trolling, not real close to me. I stayed a little longer and saw which side of the drop off they were going to work. Then I headed out. I didn't want to stay long enough to see them catch fish where I hadn't. If he didn't have the side of his boat marked up with his ad, I wouldn't have known he was a guide. Maybe he stopped because he saw 3 boats fishing in the same area, because he fishes this spot everyday, or maybe they found it on the map and just ran 5 miles up the lake to fish there and when they got there, we were there already? No problem either way. If he fishes it regularly, maybe he thinks I had seen him there before and had come back to fish his spot, no I stopped and fished it because it looked good on the map. I'd never been to this part of the lake before. But he may think I was fishing his spot? Over the years I've seen rude Pro's and regular Joes. I guess the worst were fishing or pre-fishing a tournemet. Seems better these days than in the past, but it has created a bad image for all of them. Perhaps the bad ones just stick out in your memory, and don't remember all the others that are being polite. Probably goes for Guides and Pros too, they remember the rude people and don't pay attention to the rest of the folks out there?

Great. I'm sure it will make the fishing better for me anyway. Not going to be any worse. Stripers are ahead, 3-0.

Did the Corp say this or ?

I want to try Striper fishing, and to make the switch to braid, am thinking 20lb Fireline or Power Pro? Anyone have a suggestion on these or other brands, and which color do you prefer? We'll be using spinning and level wind reels, for casting/trolling. How many yards of braid do you suggest over the backing? Is 125 yards plenty of main line? Thanks in advance.

The link to the Norfork data doesn't work for me. Is the information still available?

Where in Bass Pro ?

It's about time to head toward Bernice or number 10 bridge looking for White Bass. Any fishing reports ? ? ? Thanks.

I know this was posted a while back, but wanted to add to it. I've only eaten at the seafood place in Crane once, haven't been back since. I've heard a few people rave about the seafood buffet at a resteraunt in Hurley, it's suppose to be great. I think the WW Cafe? About 2 miles north of Crane, turn East on Highway A, go about 5 miles to Hurley. The cafe is on the right side of the road, right downtown. I ate lunch there once, the chili is good.

I think you did the right thing by telling him the regulations then reporting him when he still kept the fish. I understand a game cop doesn't want to drive across the county to try and catch someone that will probably be gone by the time they get there, but you never know when there might be one close that will respond right away. I tip my hat to you for the way you handled it. Maybe I read more into it than what you said or meant? No offence taken or meant to you. I just read and hear folks voicing their opinions about what other people should or shouldn't do, above and beyond what the law allows. Perhaps we're more free with our opinions here, or maybe with the internet we just have a bigger audience nowadays. As stated above, there is folks saying that he shouldn't keep that black, smallmouth, crappie, striper, spoonbill, catfish, musky or what ever species. Others say he shouldn't be fishing over the beds while they are spawning. Others say he shouldn't be fishing at night, or he shouldn't . . . It's not just fishing, it's the same for hunting too. The list goes on. Most of us don't keep every legal fish we catch, if we did then there would already be stricter regulations in place. I don't fish Table Rock for black bass but I catch them. I ate a 4 or 5 pound one that I caught on my crappie rig. I didn't measure or weigh it, but it tasted fine to me just the same, no guilt while cleaning or eating it. I'd just as soon throw them up on the rocks to die, but that wouldn't be legal or very nice to the fish. Is cleaning a fish while it's still alive ok, or should he kill it first? How should he kill it without someone saying, he shouldn't do that. I admire folks that have grown in their sport to the point that they place a higher set of ethics on themselves, than what the law permits. I think it shows maturity and experience. I don't mind someone telling me what they would do with my fish, But, it ruffles my feathers when someone tells me what they think I should do with my fish, if it's legal. If I let my dog chase the fox, it may not be a big deal because he won't ever catch it, but, it may be against the law to allow it? A bass fisherman might not care about the fox, and the fox hunter might not care about the bass? (sorry TRAV, I couldn't resist, this is meant in a humorous way, hope you take it that way) Good fishin to all, good night.

I understand about keeping the bass is out of season now, but, I don't understand the implication that someone that keeps a bass to eat, is doing something wrong. Can you enlighten me?

Put in at Galena tonight and we only caught one fish tonight but it was his first Spoonbill so it was fun. Got back and loaded up just before midnight. I got to take 4 young men snagging this year and they all caught their first Spoonbill, that was more fun than catching fish. In fact I never caught a fish this year, spent time driving the boat, untangling lines, helping boat fish for them and trying to make it fun. Making it fun was the easy part. They had a blast and so did I. Now I have more fishing partners for next year and more wanted to go, but we've ran out of time. Next on the list is snagging over in Oklahoma. I used to hate paying the out of state fishing license fee, now I hate to pay for the gas to get there and back!

It looks like Table Rock is still full, so what ever comes in from Beaver and the rivers, will have to be spilled. Hope it stops raining.

Wayne, Sometimes they quit fighting and you can get them to lay up where you can get to the head, but most of the time when we get them to the boat they are trying to swim away, so the tail is all that you can reach. When fishing with two hooks, they will usually roll around on the way in and get the second hook wrapped around the handle (the tail). They can be really docile as they come up but with the flip of their tail, they can be headed back to the bottom in a hurry. I don't want to be hooked to a 70 - 125 lb fish headed for Davies Locker. I've never used a gaff, but it's a thought. Seth, it seems like if we drop the fish into the boat, it usually starts the "try to whack your foot to death" dance. But if we bring them in and lay them down easy and hold the head or the tail up a little, they seem to not do that. Makes removing the hooks a lot easier. I don't know why, but it seems to work? Most of the time anyways.

I think, after you keep your second Spoonbill, your done snagging for them, because you have your taken your limit. But you can continue snagging for other non-game fish. Except the regulations specify, from page 11 of the State Code: "3. On Lake of the Ozarks and its tributaries, Osage River below U.S. Highway 54 and Truman Lake and its tributaries, no person shall continue to snag, snare or grab for any species after taking a daily limit of two (2) paddlefish." This appears to me, that it is legal to continue to snag for other non game species after taking your limit of two Paddlefish, everywhere else in the state. I think you can keep snagging for Gar or Carp etc. We caught 4 Sunday down by McCord Bend in about 2 hours, one was a big female full of eggs, still down that far.

The 2 generators at Beaver put out about 8,500 CFS of water. The spill gates were opened today and they are going to increase the spill every hour until they are releasing 25,000 CFS of water from the gates by 1 this afternoon. So I here.