jscheetz

DC this was one of your more lucid rants. I think you are right with the concept of protecting the vibe of the "spirit" of fishing. I tend to get more obsessed with catching bigger and more fish when I am in a place like Taney, when you know they are there and it is expected to catch a ton of fish. That is why I like the little mountain streams and places where maybe 2 people have been all year - then I tend to not really care much about the fish but enjoy the place, which brings us back to what Thoreau said "Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after." JS

I hear Beavis - "hmmmm... yep.... umm yeah.... oh boy.... here we go again... uh-huh....." That's what I feel like everytime we get into this gigging discussion. I can feel your pain RS - been there. NFOW has the season on suckers but many big trout fall to the gig on a cool fall night there. Seems to me like it is such an invasive thing to the streams and game fish - and that relatively few people actually do it so it's not like peoples jobs are at stake - and that as you say there are other ways to catch suckers - and the fact that it is legal makes it so much tougher to catch the poachers... And of course while it may take some skill to catch a 19 inch smallie on a tube jig - any idiot can thrust a spear into one with the 10 million candle power floodlights showing him the way. As to "gigging" and "hand-fishing" being traditions - it also used to be "tradition" to go out after Church and target shoot a bunch of passenger pigeons - but some traditions need to go the way of the passenger pigeon - JS

DC ya gotta cut that out - I can't even hold my supper plate while reading this!!! You have just solved the global warming problem - fireproof suits for us all!!! Actually, come to think of it - when it's cold and I get my waders and vest on and a rain jacket...... kind of looks like it could be nuclear proof! Yeah Al - I am in Yellowstone every year and the growth is pretty amazing since the 88 fires. But really there is no way to completely help if a fire that big gets going - near our place out there a couple of years ago there was a fire that burned over 200,000 acres and seeing that thing come down the mountain - there was no "thinning" that could have stopped it from burning. But certainly small trees are more vulnerable to heat than big trees so even trees that don't burn themselves when they get to close to the heat are more easily injured. I still think the higher fire starts are due to climate change - which will of course make it much harder for trees to become "mature" and turn into old growth. We'll see what this season brings. But you are right about the fires elsewhere being much greater and causing damage to the atmosphere. I am sure you have seen the views from space at all of the fires in South America - pretty amazing. JS

Well, what a fine way to start the new year, reading this post. Honestly, DC and Trav you guys have me in stitches with most of your posts - keep em up!! But we have Al and a few others who seem to have considered this from a scientific thinking standpoint. I think someone mentioned the facts of permafrost decline and the glacial shrinkage etc etc - these are things that are not "opinions" or political talking points but events we can see empirically. So most views that I read - and I make it a point to read all I can - will agree that the trend is towards the planet warming. So the discussion seems to lie in the "who is causing it and what if anything can we do about it" area. I am not a scientist (Although I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night) but I can certainly look back on history as we all can and see that as a species we have certainly caused some change to happen on this planet during our time here. Some for the better and some for the worst. However, usually the stuff that happens for the worst wasn't thought to be a bad thing at the time - and I guess that is my main point - I think that it is better to be cautious and look at the fact that we can't always see clearly enough into the future to predict what effect our current actions will have on things to come. So if we consider that we ARE causing some of the greenhouse effect, then why is this and what can we do about it. That seems like common sense to me. All but the fringe on this issue are not saying we all need to ride bicycles and not use electricity - but rather lets figure out what we can do, and lets start moving in a positive direction. Phil, While it is under debate how much effect the recent uptick in fires can and will have on the warming trend - it is thought that one of the possible causes of so many fires lately is the warming of the planet - in basic terms, the spring starts sooner, so the plants emerge sooner, the summer lasts longer so the plants die and dry out sooner which causes much more opportunity for lightning strikes etc to set off fires (longer fire season between spring rains and winter snows = more chance for fires and more fuel in the way of more dry plants). The interesting thing is that they can study this historically by looking at tree rings and seeing dry and fire events in the life of a tree, and compare that with warming trends that have happened throughout the history of a region. I did hear something that I thought was fireworks last night at midnight - that wasn't just you fishin was it Crappie? Happy New Year all - JS

CP - didn't see any big fish - but it was misting and cloudy and windy - so not the best for sighting them. JJ - Sorry don't have a pattern - was a fly my buddy gave me - But - they were size 16 and 14 - only one strand of red thread wrapped on the hook for body - then gray hackle with black tips - pretty sparse overall. Let me know if you get some done - JS

Got away today for a bit of fishing. Did well. It was really crowded for a weekday in Dec, and kind of cold with the wind kicking in. Caught fish in the late morn on standard scuds and midges under an indicator. Below rebar. It seemed like everyone was catching fish today. But all you guys who fish Taney a lot know this - it is easy to "Let good get in the way of great" - In other words, when you are catching a decent amount of fish sometimes it is hard to want to try something else - but I usually find that if they are biting pretty well on a couple of things - they are probably biting REALLY well on one thing and if you find that then it gets crazy! So even though I caught a dozen plus fish in a couple of hours with the indicator and midge scud combo, which is still not bad fishing - I decided to try some different stuff, and finally hit on the magic thing for me today which was a soft hackle. Gray with black tip was the color of choice over brown and olive - by far. I moved up to the rebar run this evening and for at least 45 minutes to an hour I caught a fish or had a stike and missed it on every single cast - it was crazy. I was stripping it in short bursts and sometimes they would hit it on the strip, and other times they would take it dead drifted - really didn't seem to matter what I did - would love to say it was my flawless technique - but they just seemed to like that pattern. (Only time they stopped was when after a few casts without a strike I decided to check the fly - it was gone - was getting too dark to see it so I had been trying to tempt them with the ol' bare 6x tippet - and they weren't interested!!) So, it was another great day of fishing! The overall size of the bows was a bit small this time, but plenty of fight and lots of them. I did catch one decent brown as well with some really vivid colors and a young guy snapped a pic of it for me - don't know if the colors will show up posted but I will try and see how it looks - it was really beautiful. Good luck to all those going to the get together next week - I'll be working and thinking about you!! But looks like the fishing might be decent - JS

hehehe - that was pretty funny Trav - gotta hand it to you - don't think you could come up with a better way to stir the pot and tick everyone off even if you thought about it!! But don't hold back, tell us how you really feel. But - Phil said something that I can relate to - usually you can catch trout up by the dam - but on those occasions when they have lockjaw - it is much more frustrating than fishing some wild stream - cause you KNOW these guys were just recently taking food from a little kids hand as he threw it in the hatchery!! When I am fishing on the Madison and not catching anything it's OK - those fish are SUPPOSED to be tough! And anyone else have this experience - when you first get to Taney, until you catch that first fish - the pressure is on! You walk down to the water and see someone catch a fish, then you don't catch one for 20 minutes, you start to sweat a bit, fumbling through the fly box, tying on different flys as the guy just down from you brings in his third in a row - you want to just say what are you catching those on - but your fly fishing pride tells you "you can figure this out" - so you go back in the box etc etc - then once you land one - pressure's off and game is on. Phil - I know you don't want to miff anyone off, but besides the beauty of the area and the wilderness aspect of it - is one of the reasons the Alaska vibe is better because of big fish? That is the only thing that could make Taney a bit better for me would be slightly bigger average size. I could deal with a few less fish if instead of mostly all being 12 to 15 they were all 18 to 22 or so. I like catching little brookies in the mountains too, but there is something nice about bigger fish if you can arrange it. JS

Chiming in with my broken record request - Phil is right - a moratorium on Browns in the fall. It is too easy to take the big browns in the fall and while that is nice for catching them - a lot of people take them home - and you can put pencil to paper all you want but when you take a 10 pound fish out of the lake that fish is GONE - that's the math on that one - and the common sense I believe. Daddy - you said ???? Skilled??? Is that the same Bennett Springs I go to where you got guys sitting in Lazy Boy lawn chairs with a beer helmet on and a couple of straws running to their mouths and a couple of poles out drownin crawlers til they catch their limit??? I mean lets face it - when you have a whistle blow to tell you when it's OK to pull out your limit, we're not exactly talking trying to catch a couple of wild trout in the Scottish highlands. Of course Daddy you are right on the money when talking about them doing a better job managing the people - as has been said ad nauseam - if they would just enforce the rules there are now........ Peace on earth sounds good - think the VS model would probably be a bad idea in the long run - JS

Thanks! - 3wt - Yeah, you should have went - was a good show I got to sit in Kerry's studio one day and listen to the demo stuff when they were working on the reunion stuff that year. It was awesome. He writes some great tunes - just classics! Be glad to trade for a day - can it be on payday? JS

Thanks guys, Yeah Phil, Kerry's nephew Jake is doing a song with us - he plays with Kerry in Proto-Kaw - which is the re-incarnation of the original Kansas. Kerry's a great guy. I love Phil's playing as well - have had the chance to jam with him onstage and it was honor! He is still out there playing and doing stuff - his acoustic stuff is my fav. Will let you know how the show goes. JS

Well, since a lot of you have asked me to let you know when my band does a show around here - here it goes. We are doing a concert up here in KC this Sunday - details below, but it is a benefit where all the money goes to local animal shelters. This is the 5th year we have put this on and have raised thousands of dollars and taken in thousands of cans of food and toys over the last few years. Some special guests this year will be Dennis Laffoon (Shooting Star), Monty Colvin (Galactic Cowboys) and Jake Livgren (Proto-Kaw). We do lots of rockin Christmas tunes (you can here a couple of my Christmas tunes at my myspace site if you want to listen) http://www.myspace.com/jeffscheetz Anyway, if any of you are up in KC - stop out and say hello. JS

You guys are absolutely right. Fortunately the Ozarks has more streams winding through hills and forests. I grew up on a farm in Iowa and still have family there. Up there if there is a strip of grass bank that's more than 3 feet wide between the stream and the field - it's quickly turned into a row of corn! There are very few fence rows left up there as well - so this is deadly for all the pheasants and others that used the fencerows. Pheasant population is way down. But the field runoff is completely unabated -And they are more corn crazy than ever - used to be that rotating your fields was the way they did things - not so much anymore - they just use more chemicals to make it work, and no stalk fields left over the winter, just get it in and out as fast as you can. JS

Here is a link to an article on Atrazine. It is something that many farmers I know put on their fields in massive quantities. And like all fertilizer, pesticides etc - whether on the farm or on your suburban picturesque lawn - when it rains.... where does the runoff go? Midwest streams are I believe in serious trouble due to this and many more chemicals. As more and more farms creep right up to the edge of streams, not only does this put the chemicals that much closer to the water, but by removing trees and brush between the farms and the water the natural filtering system is taken away and things run directly into the river's ecosystem full strength. Will be interesting to follow this to see what conclusions are reached. http://www.envirolink.org/external.html?it...90840250.370833 JS

Question: "So where are all the snakes"?? Answer: Who cares as long as they're gone. Just kidding of course - couldn't resist the seemingly obvious first answer you think of when one scares you to death by crawling around your legs in the river. My first scared of a snake story was when I was little and my Dad and I were fishing the Raccoon river in Iowa. We were fishing above this log jam and wading - of course with just a pair of shorts and no shoes back in those days. Standing in water about up to my chest I looked over about 10 feet and saw the biggest snake I had ever seen curled around this log sticking out of the water sunning himself. I sort of gasped and turned and said to my Dad "Dad, look at this huge snake" - when I turned back and pointed - he was gone. That moment could have been that movie effect like in jaws where the background moves and the subject is just standing still - you could see my mind thinking "Where is he now"??? Of course I am sure he was perturbed and by that time was clear on the other bank trying to get some peace back - but in my 8 year old mind he was swimming towards me just underwater planning his attact. I fished the next log jam from the sandbar. Actually, I would not be surprised if the answer could be at least partially based on environmental problems and chemicals in the ground water. The decline of frog populations worldwide is an amazing study, most likely tied to various things, but certainly alteration of the chemical balance of water due to polution is one of the factors. I just posted a topic in this forum about farmers using atrazine and it showing up in toxic levels in Missouri streams - so who knows?? But when you do see snakes out on the stream - it sure makes things seem "right" in the big picture. JS

Last time I was there saw a "guide" bring two guys down and literally plant them right in the flow of outlet 2 - I was below quite aways so didn't affect me - but saw a couple of other guys who were already there get pretty irritated and a few voices were raised. Guess my question is - who in the world would need a guide to put them in the outlet???? Are these people just completely inept?? I would think a guide would feel a bit stupid putting his clients there - kind of like taking lunch money from the slow kid - Anyone who wants to do outlet fishing surely can tell by the people and fish stacked up there where to go without divine "guidance". But hey, what do I know - Maybe the guides "guarantee" hadn't panned out and snagging a few in the outlet was the only way he was going to save his pay. Not the first time I have dealt with guides who think they own the water and you should fish behind their clients. Had a guide come tearing through the brush like a rampaging bear on Ouzel Creek in CO this summer saying he and his client were just downstream and about to get to the water I was about to enter. He asked me to move further upstream, and although I did because he asked me fairly nice (fishing was not nearly as good upstream) - later I wished I wouldn't have moved since it has happened a few times before and why should my trip suffer just because he has some guy with lots of money he wants to impress? I should have told him YOU are the PROFESSIONAL guide - you should be able to get your guy on fish anywhere!!! OK - my guide rant over too - JS

Just to throw in another thought for anyone who may be looking. Since I do a lot of hiking, backpacking etc stuff that is not just fishing, I looked into this dilema a few years ago. It is impossible to get one jacket that does it all - but with two I think you can be covered in all but the coldest spots. I am a fan of the Mountain Hardware stuff. I like it a lot better than the North Face jackets I have - MH seems to fit better and have longer arms. Anyway, I have the Mountain Hardware Windstopper Tech jacket - and then one of their rainproof shells. This combo works anywhere. I also have one of their heavy fleeces to use under the shell in extreme cold - but I usually try to avoid that A good windproof soft jacket is all you need 90 percent of the time if it's not raining. Stopping the wind is usually enough to keep you warm, if you have never had a true windproof soft shell you won't believe how it can keep you warm. Plus a jacket like the Tech jacket, which is actually micorfleece over the windstopper stuff is very light and easy to move in - I don't like the big bulky feel of most of the so called wading jackets. Then the rainproof shell which is also "backpack" grade weight will go over that if it's wet and cold, or if it is just raining on a spring day the shell will be all you need. The layers are the key, then you can deal with whatever the weather throws your way. I have used this combo approach high up in the rockies on "Hot days - freezing nights" types of trips and on lake of the woods in Canada during downpours that had my buddy sitting in water. I will say this - I used to think that spending that much money on jackets was ridiculous - but when you are out there in the elements good gear is SOOOO worth it - there really is a difference. Mountain Hardware site JS

Fine topic. Like many here have said I like any kind of fishing, but prefer the fly rod - and that is mostly for everything else that comes along with the fly fishing experience completely apart from the actual catching of fish. But I don't know that you will necessarily "eventually" want to fly fish. I have a good friend who is a fine person, a great fisherman, been fishing his whole life, never fly fished and I would venture to say he never will. He and I are just different people. He likes firing up the bass boat - I like taking my kayak -He would rather "camp" in a camper - I would rather backpack solo - He really likes targeting big fish - I can be happy catching 10 inch brookies in a mountain stream - We get along great, but just have different internal wiring. We can talk about fishing for hours just like we were doing the same thing. But he is telling stories about chucking 1 ounce spinner baits and I am talking about drifting a fly you can barely see with the naked eye! I like the non-mechanical feel of fly fishing - the natural vibe of it. I'm not really into the Zen thing, but I will say there have been some days of fly fishing in the mountains that have been the closest to God I have ever felt. But I think as long as you are fishing and as you put it "respecting the fish" then it's all good. And who knows - maybe someday you'll pick up a fly rod and I will buy a big bass boat - cause as T.S. Eliot said: We shall never cease from exploration And the end of all our exploring Will be to arrive where we started And know the place for the first time. JS

PHW - you are so right about a lot of private waters. I was in a village on the coast of Wales and saw a little literature stand in a coffee shop - like the "Branson's finest" tourist kind of stuff. I looked at it and it was full of private carp lakes ads. I thought there would be more sea stuff and a few rivers ads - but it was almost all of these small ponds and lakes where you could pay to go catch carp. One time I was over there and a friend said he might take me fishing - I had seen a really nice looking river just a few miles from where we were staying and I said "down to that river in the valley"? and he replied "No - there's nothing but trout in there"!! hehehehehehe He wanted to go to a pond and catch carp - different strokes.... JS

I know many of you are familiar with the European side of fishing or have read myself or someone post about how Carp is the only white meat worth pursuing to most across the pond. I just got back from a few weeks in Europe and while I was in a drug store in the lovely old Roman city of Chester, UK I walked by the magazine rack and saw this - so I took a photo to prove to some of my buds back here that they really do hold the "golden one" in high esteem there - no fishing mags about anything else!! Of course as a side note - over there they also always eat corn on their pizza - coincidence?? JS

I know it's the same thing I always say - but a moratorium on keeping fish over say 20 inches during the fall would make this a much better fishery. I know what you are saying Phil, that even the accidental snagging of the fish will stress them out and may kill some - but from what I have seen, putting a 26 inch brown on your stringer to take it home and put it on your wall kills 'em every time. So if we could stop that in the fall when they are so easy to target - it would at least keep more in there. And while it is sometimes hard to accuse a guy of "snagging" a big brown on purpose - if he is walking him to the truck there is no question. Anyway, all comments on the structure and habitat sound groovy, but it will never be the fishery it could be if we keep letting jugheads come here in the fall and take out all the big fish. JS

hehehe Al, sounds like fun!! My wife actually bought mantis eggs - supposed to put them in the garden so they eat aphids and whatnot. I was skeptical, and didn't want to introduce non native critters, but they "assured" me they were local breeds - so... she put out two egg sacs and one got eaten by birds, and the other hatched and we had hundreds of these little half inch long mantis' running all over the deck - they were pretty cool, but I suspect pretty suceptible to other bugs - didn't seem to be any more around that fall than usual so...... Of course growing up we did bring a garter snake in the house that promptly had babies - found those in shoes and everything for the next week JS

Thanks guys, The praying mantis always looks like an alien to me - this one especially. He was just wondering around the flower bed one day asking to have his pic taken. I have a freind who does fantasy art and he always uses bugs for his starting point for the scary creatures. Kinda cool looking - but if you were an inch long beetle and saw this guy, it would probably give you a different perspective!! JS

I have been fishing at Taney during certain times when I could catch fish 5 to 1 by going to smaller tippet (ie was using 6x and switched to 7x and started catching on every cast) so I think it depends on the situation - water color,temp, overcast, hungryness of fish etc etc - I would have all sizes on you just in case - sometimes instead of switching flies try a smaller tippet - Just my experience - JS

Bugs are cool

OK, So with all the night fishing fever that seems to be afoot, I would just like to make a suggestion on night fishing etiquette - maybe it's been suggested before but - When it is foggy out, it is almost impossible to see who is fishing and where - so my suggestion is to those fishing, when you hear someone coming down the bank or see a light moving in your direction - give a little flash of your light if you have one - or cough or something. The last time I was there it was so foggy that you could NOT see without your light, and of course the light just made it worse - I walked out between chute one and two and started to strip out line to cast when I caught a glimpse of something - it was someone standing just 15 feet in front of me already fishing - I just couldn't see them - the fog just cleared a bit for a second and I could make them out - they almost got a black wooly in the back of their head!! I realize we are all out there trying to have peace and solitude and darkness and whatnot etc etc etc - but a wolly in the back of the head is probably no fun. Just my drop in the suggestion box - JS