jscheetz

Phil, I think it would be great to have a topic on that to get some more information out there. GF, see, now I can more clearly see your trouble. "Willey creates pollution" ?? Being "green" isn't only about what kind of car you drive - or whether you recycle or drink organic coffee. These are all things that make an impact and we should all be mindful of them and do as much as we can because they will add up to the whole. It is awesome that you have put some thought into the things you do! Most people don't. (You drive a much greener car than I do!!!) - but I belive being "green" has to also include our actions towards the big picture of the world. It is being able to see the consequences of our actions as a whole (meaning as a society/country/species)as they effect the rest of the world and trying to make large desicions based on that - it's not always possible. Unless you sit at home the rest of your life in the dark and cold - you will be doing some polluting. But once again I think there needs to be a willingness to sometimes sacrifice what we may want as individuals in order to make the whole better. Most people get all up in arms when you say "sacrifice" because then they launch into the "I'm not giving up my rights etc etc" - and while I would LOVE to see WAY less government involved in the lives of people and business - the reality is that if you leave everyone to themselves, the people that don't care and the businesses that only care about short term profits will ruin it for everyone. We don't live in Utopia - we live in a fallen world where we do the wrong thing time and again. So having some type of "larger view" mechanism to try to keep things in check is the best scenario. Having read many of your posts I know more about you than you think - and this overseeing "mechanism" seems to always get your dander up. But while you may nurture your land and you may take care of your trees, wildlife, etc - your neighbors may not. So without someone paying attention you may find yourself on a small island of paradise as the world crumbles around you - I am just saying that trying to save the whole as we each take care of individual parts makes the most "green" sense to me. And like everything else - there will always be a level of hypocricy and some people purporting to be "greener" than others - but we can't let that pull us off subject. Those people are not the problem - the problem is the problem! The hypocrits are just periphery. You said you were going fishing - Did you catch any fish? As for my fishing - I have only been down to Taney once this summer, planning a trip or two this fall - too many gigs - but I was blessed enough to spend a week fishing in Canada and a week on the Flats in Key West and a week in Montana. So you shouldn't feel too sorry for me. I know, I know - flying around polluting. But hey!! It's for a good cause right? Love ya - JS

Hey Jamie - this is the Ozarks. I am pretty sure you can even shoot 'em with a bazooka and it's OK. JS

Hey Phil, I don't know if anyone can prove without doubt that we are causing the warm up - but just like any issue like this - I feel it is better to err on the side of caution, because you can't go back - trouble is, that "side" is what is referred to as the environmental movement so people like my bud GF don't really want to have to "cozy up" with them on ANYTHING, lest someone accuses them of "turnin green". So it has to be politicized in order to get anything done. Unfortunately money and politics rule the world - and I don't have much of either!! You are correct GF - it's all about the aforementioned $ and Politics - but in this country at least we do have a bit of a voice in the outcomes. (can't vote in the Queen) JS

Gonefishin, I think that Al's point is that we DID something about those issues. Why did we? Sometimes the only thing that will make people sit up and take notice on an issue IS what you call scare tactics - or extremists or whatever you want to call it. If you just say "Hey, I think the planet is warming up - does it feel like it to you"? Do you think that would get anyones attention? But if you say "Lookout!!! This planet is getting too hot and is going to melt your baby's face off!!!!" - People will take notice. Sometimes the hardest step to addressing a problem is making people aware that there is a problem - you are always going on about people and groups being too extreme and we should just stay mellow about stuff - but I would say that the only people that have truly changed the world have all be pretty "extreme" in their thinking and most completly shook up the establishment and ruffled the feathers of their day, and people thought they were extremists. All I know is in my biz - the music biz - all you have to do is look around and see that it is the most bizzare, weird, "out there" behaviour that gets all the attention (not that this is usually a good thing!!) but it is a fact - so if you want to get attention to a subject you sort have to get it out there. Not that you should make things up or "scare" people with false rhetoric, but rather look at what could happen if we don't address it. As for the oil thing - I agree, as long as the huge companies are running the show there will be great difficulty in bringing alternatives to market. However some of the old guard is on shaky ground - ie Ford - due partly to living in the paradigms of the past while other companies are forging ahead. I will say however that the public and the market will be what will make it happen - I have been going to Europe for many years and gas being anywhere from $4 to $7 a gallon has always been the norm over there. What has this done? Most of the cars you see there get WAY better gas mileage than ours do - very small in comparison to size - you rarely see SUVs over there. So the market is shaped by the price of gas - plain and simple. And if gas hits $5 a gallon here then the market will FORCE the new technologies to the forefront. Otherwise - we'll just stay fat, dumb, and happy. JS

Good work Gonefishin! I would say two things - the point that I was trying to make was that there were no wolf Kills of humans - sorry I didn't specify the death part - And if you have to fill up the list by going back to 1851 with wolves attacking "2 Negroes" - that is pushing it a bit However - on the one and only "possible" death - In your own research it says and I quote Smacks of anti-wolf rhetoric to me - hehehehe But of course wolves could kill people - I can tell you that I have been fortunate enough to see wolves when I was hiking solo in the back country - and what went through my mind was not "there's never been anyone killed by wolves in the U.S." Nope - it was more like "I need to get out of here!!!!" But that is just it - I always tell my wife if I get eaten by a bear or wolf or mountain lion when I am in THEIR backyard then that is MY fault and not theirs. Now when we start having the wild animals stalk the streets of the cities and kill people then we should do away with them! ..... but don't people already stalk those streets and kill people?? Kind of funny that we don't kill ALL of us people just because some go kill right? But most people are ready to throw out every wolf on the face of the earth just because one attacks. Anyway, just think if we could all have a bit of tolerance for others of God's creatures we could make this a better place. Much peace and love. JS

"Red riding hood" - Thats a good one Wayne!! And I wouldn't worry bout the Mountain lions - now that the word is out about them killin innocent people the good people of this board like Gonefishin will be out there after em! Seriously GF - you know I love these debates with you - "but these aren't just bluegills in your pond" :ph34r: - you are a bit mis-informed about the reintroduction of wolves into Yellowstone. There was an INCREDIBLE ammount of research and many amazing public debates between the pro and con sides to re-establishing wolves after all the years of their absence. Several books and papers written before hand. I read most all of it. Many good points were made on both sides of the argument and it was discussed first and foremost of how these are large predators and they will eat cows occasionally. So everyone was aware there would be some problems. But there are so many more interesting things happening in Yellowstone - things that nobody had even guessed would happen when you bring a large predator that had been missing from the food chain for 50 years back into the mix. What you say? Like the fact that beavers are building in Lamar valley. For the first time in 30 years - why? Because the Elk can't just stand around next to the river and graze on the foilage like they used to - might get eaten by a wolf - So therefore the willows are growing and where they do - you guessed it, here come the beavers. (which btw is good news for us long rodders). So there are a lot of things being studied and many things that have surprised both sides - but the fact that there will be human/wolf conflicts was NEVER an unknown. JS

but if you lay that mink on a cedar board over an open pit.......... JS

GF - Hadn't give up just had to catch my breath! Actually been too busy playin and fishin - so that's good! I love you guys!!!!! You are the same guys that say there is no "scientific evidence" for global warming - or no evidence of otters having been in MO etc etc - the list goes on - however, just because there is no evidence of wolf attacks doesn't mean it's not happening!! heheheheheheheheheh you are KILLIN me!!! Comon now - you gotta throw me a bone on this one (pun intended) and at least see the hypocricy in that. btw - Been doin any fishin lately GF? JS

MTM - I was thinking about starting a thread on introducing predators into Central Park - but I think they are already there Truth be told I would rather run into a Wolf than some of the characters I have seen in CP I pray the MRI goes well for you, and you are able to get back out in the great outdoors!! Gonefishin - how have you been? Still waving the banner I see - right on! Haven't been on for awhile, been too busy, but I am back now to bring reason and sanity to the board. If you can send me documented information on wolves attacking man in the U.S. I would love to see it - Good luck. JS

Ron, I agree that frivolous law suits are a major problem in all areas of this country, and I hate to see "green" groups have to do that all the time as well. But - what other option do they have? None. The law is the only thing that will stop a developer from clear cutting a stand of forest for his mall - reason won't, begging and pleading won't, science won't, the lives of a few animals certainly won't - so the only option is to sue them to stop until things can be studied as to the effects of what they are about to do. If you wait until the studies are done the person will have gone ahead and done it! I just think that we should err on the side of caution when it comes to our precious world. Funny thing is that most people want the same thing. To see the wild places preserved or conserved in some manner so they don't just go away. We may have different ideas about how best to do that, and what best to do with it in the end, but if we would just all be willing to sacrifice a bit of our own wants for the betterment of the whole - I think we could work some things out. You did say regarding wolves: Just to clarify that - it wasn't "introducing" them - it was "RE-storing" them - as you recall they were there first. So maybe your question should be "Are you going to tell me that it is OK for us to move into an area that we "KNOW" is inhabited by these animals when we know there is going to be trouble from the start?" I have enjoyed the dialog with you Ron, maybe someday we will get a chance to meet. You had mentioned your health - are you still able to get out and fish? JS

Ron, You make some good points. I think unfortunately however there is not a lot of truth on the logging side either. Many of the logging companies are using "scare tactics" to push through timber sales of our National forests by saying that it is "reducing the fuel" to stop these terrible fires. While they may or may not be achieving that in the end - it's just a money maker to them. Plus the timber sales on National forest land is HEAVILY subsidized - just like the grazing of cattle is. It is much cheaper to log and graze cattle on fed lands - who pays for that? That is a simply crazy policy that needs to change. I am sure being right there and guiding for all those years you have lots of awesome stories of wolves and all kinds of things - sounds like you probably had the opportunity to work in an area that most people only get to visit - what a blessing!! We're all jealous of that! But I can see that you have a real disdain for "outsiders" building homes or coming there from elsewhere and having an opinon. But I would just say that in regards to the millions and millions of acres of National Park, National Forest, and National wilderness areas - last time I checked I paid my Federal taxes. So while you do get the priviledge of living nearby - that's just geography. JS

Hey Ron, Hope the fires stay away from your neck of the woods! I really enjoy reading your posts! They are very interesting to me. I hope you don't take offense to this, certainly none intended, but you sound EXACTLY like a friend of mine who lives over near Red Lodge - pretty close to the park as you do. He has lived there his whole life and often uses phrases like "When my Grandad and I.....) So he too has that Insider info. Right down to the whole "wolf reintroduction conspiracy" thing. The facts are that wolves used to live in all 48 of the lower states, and were all but wiped out between the late 1800s and around 1920. So saying that they aren't endangered - comon now. Any species that has that kind of a decline in such a short historical period is bound to be on the radar for problems with the gene pool and disease. No one said there were not wolves in Canada - but if you look at the world wide population there used to be lots of wolves in places like Great Britain, Mexico, Japan - and they are not there now - so the wolf as a species and it's subspieces is undisputably in global decline. And as far as the "no middle ground" for the green groups. Isn't it the same way with the large corps? The only reason that they try to do the right thing at all is due to public opinion and bottom dollar company image and stock prices. Left on their own I am pretty sure they would have a "no middle ground" policy as well. I believe you have lived there and have the "insiders" views that are indeed extrememly valuable - and something that is so unique that outsiders just can't get that. But I would just put out to you that sometimes people in your situation have not only the actual "local living" views on things - but also the "traditions" that come along with it. Not that this is a bad thing - on the contrary, too much of the country has lost much of their past - however, when my friend talks about how his Grandad used to do it - he is living on tradition and in the past. The world we live in now is vastly different than it was at the turn of the century - and we can't expect to fix today's problems with yesterday's paradigms. While I for one certainly wish we could go back - we can't. So we must figure out the best way to move forward from where we currently stand within the light of the current circumstances. So I would just hope you can look at things with an open mind and not let the past (which is an incredible resource and a great teacher - don't get me wrong) be your only basis for what you think. There is lots of new information available to us that wasn't just 50 years ago - so we should take advantage of that as we deal with the natural world and all of it's resources. JS P.S. If your wife and her sister still want to go see the wolves let me know. Next time I am up there I will take them - and I bet we will see them. Can't guarantee it - but won't charge $200 either!

Hey all, I have a place up near Roscoe MT, and when we were up there a few weeks ago the Derby fire (the one near NYE) had just started up and was only at 18,000 acres. Even though it was 40 some miles away from us there were ashes all over the car in the morning and you could'nt see up the valley. Pretty scary stuff everytime I am up there during fire season. Seeing the glow of one of those huge fires really makes you realize how much in control we are not! MTM you actually live there as do many of my friends so I know you have a "hands on view" which we outsiders can't always know, but I think from what I see is that the RM front is so exploding with sprawl that there will just be more and more fire troubles. As you know in the fire fighting biz, areas are designated priority for fighting that have homes or buildings on them. So the more buildings there are the more news there will be about the fires. As you said, there are lots of fires up there that start and are put out or burn out (I do lots of hiking and backpacking and you come across tons of small burn areas in the backcountry). So I don't just think that the problem is too much "fuel" due to no clear cutting - I think that as people delve deeper into the woods to live they are expecting to be protected by the "man" - so we tend to hear on the news about a fire that burned a few houses - but not one in the backcountry - so it seems like there is more problems. As for the general view on this board about the "problems" always going back to the green groups - If it weren't for those we probably wouldn't have the symbol of our nation left flying the friendly skies, we wouldn't have ANY wolf populations rebounding (although I know better than to get you natives started on that) ;o) And numerous other victories over selfishness and greed that have come about partly because some "wacko" took a stand for those who couldn't stand for themselves. Sure there are nuts in the enviro movement - just like there are in ANY movement - but you can't blame an entire movement full of many good people for everything. Anyway - just my 2 cents - hope the fires get under control - it is defintely pretty frightening being there near them. JS

I will say that I have lived a blessed life - fished in lots of amazing places, been around the world many times, get to make a living doing what I love - but now that I have seen the "Girls gone grabbin'" dvd I realize that I wasn't as fulfilled as I thought I was. Now I feel like I can really die a complete man. Just goes to show that if you put enough rednecks together with a camera - eventually one of them will come up with an idea. As for the debate on grabbin - I agree that the vulnerability of ANY animal should be taken into consideration - just like my always asking for the moratorium on browns in the fall around the outlets. But I know guys that really decimate an area with trot lines as well - usually "local" catfishermen (or girls) haven't really caught up with the "catch and release" phase of evolution yet -they are still huntin' and gatherin'. JS

Hey Terry, Right you are - opening gigs can be interesting if the "headliner" is having issues - I have the opportunity to do lots of shows with big acts all over and it really varies - usually the guys on the way down are the most bitter, but then again, anyone can have a bad day. But I sure have some good stories! Chairs being thrown, food trays slung like frisbees - that sure makes it fun later! That is why when we headline and have someone open for us I always try to go out of my way to be nice to them - cause I've been on the other end plenty. As far as Edgar goes - he was a really sweet person - pretty frail, but once he got on stage he rocked. Murdoc - my Dad taught me as well - I remember being irritated so many times when we were walking to our favorite fishing hole and he would stop to talk to someone - especially if they seemed to need a bit of help - I just wanted to get fishing - but later figured out that helping others have a good time was at least "almost" as fun. JS

Hey Crappie - yep Dogstock. Right you are Murdoc - what if we all vow to walk up to someone the next time we are on the water and just give them a couple of flies to try out? Just do it - that would be amazing how much good will we would be spreading - the "Pay it forward" attitude. Think I will give it a whirl next time I am there - JS

Hey Phil, Yep - Edgar Winter! He was still breathing as far as I could tell He did have a really good band with him. Also on the bill was Rick Derringer! Another old dude that can still rock! Kind of fun playing with these cats that wrote all those classic songs - a bit of a historical vibe - kind of like going in a really cool old building and marveling at the architects who built it - but this way, the song architects are the ones still doing the tunes! JS

I played a show last week with the Edgar Winter band, so with that on my brain, their classic album "They only come out at night" seemed a fitting title to my recent fishing experience. I got down to Taney at midnight and planned to fish most of the night, crash for a couple of hours and fish the next day. I am out on the gravel bar alone when I hear someone walking towards me. Now I am sometimes a bit jaded fishing Taney just because it seems that it gets so crowded during the day and people seem to - walk through your line of fire - shuffle right next to you - snag fish and shout "I got one" - or just generally annoy you. So I am sorry, sometimes I get a bit impatient with people (Lord forgive me for being judgemental). So when this person walks up to me - and it is this board's very own Leonard, whom I had never met or talked to - and he proceeds to show me the best hole to fish in - gives me fly after fly that he has tied, and when I would change he wouldn't take them back but just said "keep it for next time", lets me in on many "tips" and info about night fishing that I had never even pondered before, and just in general makes the night fishing experience a great time, I have to just give a shout out to him and say "THANKS"!! I think the more giving, generous, helpful people like Leonard stalking the banks of Taney the better. So I am going to take his cue and try to help support other fishermen down there in a positive way to try and make it as enjoyable for them as Leonard did for me. Thanks Leonard!!! JS

Fishing was a bit tough today. At least by Taney standards. Everyone seemed to be having to work pretty hard for them. Still caught a good number of fish, but not the 50+ fish kind of day like you often have fishing all day here. Caught several on red SJWs but the normal midge action just wasn't producing. Good tip for beginners coming to Taney - don't be afraid to try different things when the usual suspects are not working - no matter how many times you read the phrase "I was just killing them on Zebra midges" - remember, there may be a time when that doesn't work. Today during one stretch I stood in one spot and tried many different flies and just couldn't get bit - then on a whim I put on a tan sort of egg looking thing and the next 6 casts I missed two fish and caught 4! Two browns and two bows -one brown was 18 inches and so fat I couldn't get her in my hand. Then -I never got another hit on that fly!! They just turned on and then shut off - kinda crazy like! So if things are slow, don't be afraid to experiment. Then later the water came on and I caught a few more on SJWs. All in all a beautiful day to be on the lake! JS

Hey Dano, Looks like he has a great teacher indeed! - what a fine way to spend labor day! Although in that second pic it looks like you are teaching him to fish with a club - I think that is illegal - but wait... you said you were at outlet nuber 2? - Oh then I guess it's probably OK, I see ALL kinds of methods being used there. Rock on - JS

Geeesh - as the resident environmental wacko here I hate to say anything bad about the little fellas - but does this mean we have to have MORE small trout below the dam?? It sure is a long way for em to go to get to the slot! I guess as Jeff Goldblum said in Jurassic Park "Life finds a way" - JS

Ahhh, if it were only that hi-tech! Actually these were a few I got a couple of years ago. We've all had one of those times when you arrive at a far away river only to find you left your wet box in another vest back home, and it's Sunday, so any respectable local fly shop is closed with a sign on the door saying "out fishing - back in the morning". Locals that live near trout streams know that way too many people have seen "A river runs through it" and sooner or later they can sell just about anything that smacks of fly-fishing. So, as you are buying the day's junk food in the local convenience store you see the wooden box near the counter between the beef jerky and the harley davidson lighters with a sign that reads "hand tyed flis one doller". So since you are desperate you look through some compartments mostly filled with patterns you can't readily identify, sort of like looking for a Picasso at the 3rd grade art show. You finally see something that looks like a scud - or it could be a bumble bee. Nope, it is what will, Lord willing and a few dozen more attempts by the tier, turn into an actual scud pattern. It's kind of purple and red with red thread and it looks like if you get it wet enough it will sink. Sort of either a fat scud or a thin sow bug. So feeling like a tourist and a complete novice you slide a few of these on the counter next to the candy bar and Mt. Dew and hope the guy behind the counter doesn't say "Tied these myself". That would put you by way of honest reply, in a character compromising situation. Fortunately he just looks disgusted in an "I hate tourists" kind of way and takes your money. That's the story. I could tell you where to get some of these - you just take the first bridge over the St. Vrain outside of Boulder... or was it the Yellowstone outside of Columbus? Well either way, go a mile to the left, then start the climb up the hill past the chainsaw carvings, over the next bridge, next to the broken down cabins... and there is this gas station there.... and then..... Aw - you know the rest! JS

Hadn't been down in awhile and didn't get to Taney until about noon on Good Friday. Was good because it signified the tomb would soon be empty, and good because I was standing knee deep in Taney catching fish. Maybe not of equal significance to the world, but sure was nice for me. Fishing - was great, although a ton of small fish. But, caught a few in the 15 inch category. Fished from the top of rebar downstream. As anyone who has fished here knows you can catch fish on most anything, but there is usually one thing you find that works like a bit of magic. For me this on this day it was a purple/red fuzzy scud - about a size 14/16. Caught one fish after the other all afternoon on it. Tried other colors when I broke one off, but soon went back to the purple one - soon as I did, fish back on. When the wind picked up I switched to stripping a wooly and that did pretty well, and then in the evening I went downstream from the boat ramp just to get a bit of distance between myself and the weekenders that were starting to spill downstream from the pile up at outlet 2. Did well down there as well, even used a small emerger dry and caught a few that were midging. Another great trip there, like I said too many small fish - (did I say too many?????) whoops, lost my mind for a minute!! hehehehe - but caught over 40 fish and was a beautiful albeit a bit hot Good Friday - Happy Easter to ya'll - JS

Basskicker - Dander isn't really up - more like head is down and shaking. It's just kind of where the world is right now. Brian, you could be right. Although this idea has been shuffled around by less public groups for years - so now that it has a public voice would seem to me that it is making some progress. It's called incrementalism. It is how parties/lobbyists/groups get their real points out there, little by little. That is what many people including major world leaders said of a young upstart inciting hatred and radicalism in Germany in the 20s. They just shrugged it off as some "abomination of an idea" - All ideas start small and gain momentum with a few people, whether the idea turns out to be horrendous, wonderful, or somewhere in between. We'll see where this one goes - JS

Just when you think there may be some sanity left in the world - - - Richard Pombo, R-Congressman from CA, has floated a draft of a bill that would sell several National Parks and the naming rights to trails. They are back pedaling now since everyone is up in arms over it. But I have been told of the "naming" rights to many places being discussed way before this. Just like teams do with their stadiums. Somehow it just won't be the same going to see the "Pepsico Old Faithful", or going fishing on the famous "Yellow Freight Henry's Fork". etc etc - Who knows, once the ball is rolling it will be a real hoot to drift an olive scud through the "Sprint rebar hole" or maybe try for a nice bow near the "Wal-mart Flats" or wade in with the masses for a shot at a fall Brown right below the "Monster.com outlet#2". Ahhhhh - progress JS