tgard27

I bet that the 1,000 trout per mile has to be how many they stocked, not how many the stream actually holds per mile. I have my feelings, as i have only fished this stream very lightly, that this stream gets like alot of other white ribbons: good when they just stocked it, bad when they haven't stocked it. But, I bet that this is a really fun stream to fish and it is very beautiful. Here is a qoute from the MDC Fishing Prospects for 2008, I know that its dated but it still is valuable info. Tight lines and good luck. Travis "Brown trout are stocked annually and rainbow trout are stocked frequently throughout the year. Fish surveys conducted in 2007 indicate the majority of brown trout were in the 12 -16” length range, with approximately 24% of the population greater than 15” and 3% greater than 18”. The largest brown trout collected in the 2007 survey was 18.8”. The number of rainbow trout collected in the 2007 survey increased from previous years, with good numbers up to 15”. Approximately 3% of the rainbow trout population is over 15 inches. Rainbow trout will continue to be stocked downstream from Bennett Spring Branch throughout the year. Flies, spinners, and small crankbaits work well for catching both brown and rainbow trout." MDC

Welcome to the team bcfish. This really excites me, the fact that we have a team together and are getting down to business gets my blood rushing. I know that Hickory can never be a blue ribbon stream, but this can be a stream that holds its own against other white ribbons and a stream that can make for enjoyable fishing year 'round. Does anyone think that a business would be interested in sponsoring our stream team? I know that this would take some cold calling which I wouldn't overjoyed with but I would certainly do for a good cause. I think that a sponsor would really be helpful due to the fact that we need more trash cans and trash bags! I was thinking about the trash situation and came up with some ideas. First, I think that we should ask the city if they would supply more trash cans and change trash on a more regular basis. I totally expect a big no from this question but I fell that we need to ask them anyway in order to keep the city aware of our actions. Our second option, and one that I think will be the option that we will use is to get trash cans, either from a sponsor or from a a fund that we create through a fund raiser or just us kicking in a couple bucks, and we set these trash cans down on high traffic areas. We could have a schedule where everyone picks up trash equally. Say we have 10 members to our stream team, and then we divide the trash can pickups equally like this: Person A takes week 1 Person B takes week 2 Person C takes week 3 and so on and so forth. That way we have someone picking up the trash cans every week each member having to perform trash duty once every ten weeks or so. Make sense? Comments, suggestions? The other big news for me is that I was notified that I have been accepted into Washburn Law School . I got the letter in today and had to read it a few times before it set in. Anyways, let’s keep on this stream team, we can get this done!

I live in KC and we have JAmes A Reed which has trout stocked in it. On Saturday I saw some locals execising the low level intelligence that many people at urban trout ponds have. Three men out on the lake ice fishing and not a darn brain between them. Its a wonder that they didn't become the 6 o'clock news.

Yeah, I thought that the idea of cameras would be a bit of a stretch, but too much coffee and not enough business at work can drive you crazy. I think that the signs are a great idea. It would be great if we could get them for free, but I could live with the idea of dropping a few bucks if I had to. I think that my last posts got us off of topic; does anyone know when we should set a rough date for our stream team debut?

Would this be good for trout fishing? I have never tried a super line before and was wondering if I should drop some money on it. Travis

One more thing, I know that the idea of having a park ranger there 24/7 is not going to happen. I wonder if we could get some cheap trail cameras? Is this idea too far out there? I was just wondering and I'm not afraid of criticism. Travis

I have often wondered what the MDC would say to an artificials/catch and release only area in white ribbon streams such as Hickory and Capps (I know, we get back to the whole issue of enforcement). I wonder if would could appease the locals who like to poach by setting up a dam that separates the stream into tow different sections, one for artificials and one for bait and wait. Do you think that the MDC would go for an area of artificials only? If we could divide this stream by a small dam, and use this dam to separate the artificials from natural bait, then maybe this stream could gain some traction. This idea of a dam might be wishful thinking though, but the stream team needs to get a time frame together. One more thing: In Tryon's book, "Fly Fishing for Trout in Missouri" he listed Hickory Creek in Neosho MO as a stream that has wild trout. Now, I have not caught a fingerling in this stream but have noticied a post with a trout that has par markings on its side. Does anyone ever see any spawning going on in this creek? Any redds being noticed? I am asking this because I myself wonder if this could be another direction that we could use when we meet with the city(eventually this will happen). Just wondering because I feel that a stream with a chance of some natural reproduction could be a driving point.

Its great that we have this amount of interest recieved in this short of time! Now it is time to get a possible meeting scheduled and, over the course of a few weeks, discuss the major concern areas that Hickory possess. I have not been down to Hickory in a while, but I am planning to go on Thursday. Please PM me if anyone would like to meet me down there. So, what dates are we thinking about? I have never been on a stream team before but I would imagine that warm weather would be a must. Lets keep this thing going!

I have heard of this rumor as well and this is very disturbing. I wonder if MDC is aware of this. This brings me back to the issue of getting the community involved. Travis

Chief, I like your spirit and I know that you want the best for this stream. Right now, I think that we need to extend the hand of cooperation towards the city and see if we can't get something worked out first. I'm afraid that if we start embarrassing the city that we will cut any possibility to make improvements to this stream. Lets get the stream team going first and talk to the city after.

Kent, I have not yet signed us up with MDC, if you could complete that later tonight that would be greatly appreciated. Mark, that was great. If you need an email address then put me down, travis.gardner@live.com I like your idea on attracting more than just fisherman as we could use all the help we can get. I think that the online meetings will be great for our team as we are all used to this format and we all have different schedules. Lets get the list going so that things go smoothly for Kent. Sign me up!

Ok, I made a really rough flyer. If anyone has any suggestions please tell me as I have never made a flyer for a stream nor have I seen a model that I could base one on. I don't know if a meeting is necessary, or at least mandatory meetings were everyone has to show up. I think a great initial meeting would be for us to create a post on this forum for concern areas, how we could address them and were they are located. This way, everyone could get there on their own schedule and not have to sacrifice work or family time. If anyone thinks that this could work let me know. I am going down to Hickory next tues or thurs during the day unless hell freezes over. Tell me what you think of my flyer, where I need to make improvements etc. and whether an online meeting would work. Travis Hickory_Creek_Stream_Team_Needs_Volunteers.doc

Good to hear from you Ollie. I hope that this does awaken the people of Neosho to the fact that people outside of Neosho not only travel to this stream but also care about its well being. I'm glad that you have joined our team. I am wondering if any of the local fly shops in Kansas City would allow me to post up flyers for our stream team. I think that the word is spreading and some real momentum is being gained here. Travis

You know, I can't see too many people here who really stayed on toppic throughout this whole post. This website is not here so that you guys can recite one liners about each others mom and the age of the person who disagrees with you. This is why we have the MDC, so that people who act like morons on this website don't call the shots for the state. If you are on this website, then $20 shouldn't be that big of a deal. If it is a big deal, then my suggestion is to contact your local state representative. And yes, there is a problem with the state telling people how to use their land, but in some situations it may not be safe to use a rifle to hunt. If anyone has that large of a problem with the MDC, than contact your local MDC chapters and express those concerns. But until then, stop acting like idiots and waisting electricity. Travis

Flysmallie has a good point about trash and maybe this is where we could get some support from Neosho National Fish Hatchery. I think that the first thing to really getting the community on board is to call the city of Neosho and let them know our plans to create a stream team. After that, we need to publicize our intentions to the city of Neosho. Maybe we could post an add in the local newspaper calling for volunteers to join? As it appears on this post, we have about 6 interested people in the team as of right now. I also like the idea of signs as I personally believe that a lot of the poaching that goes on happens due to the misconception that nobody cares and that no one is paying attention. It would be easy to believe this as I have never seen an agent down there, and the lack of trash cans and abundance of litter in the stream creates the belief that no one cares. I think that we could alert people that we are here and we do care about this stream if we could get the MDC to allow us to put up signs along the stream. Maybe some signs would shine some light on this stream and remind people that what they are doing is wrong, illegal and that it hurts both their community and Hickory. Anyways, we are making some headway here and I am very excited. Let’s keep it up! Travis

I like the idea of creating a stream team and, although I am no friend of the press, a little publicity on this issue may not hurt. But here comes the hard part, it is going to take more than Buzz and I to make a change here. Its not going to work for Two people to take on a town that has 10,505 people. My question is, if we set up a stream team how many people would be interested in participating in it? I also think that we can do something right now without organizing; when you go fishing and see trash and waste and poachers, take a picture. If we can accumulate some pictures now, then we can have some evidence that will help us down the road. Finally, we can't just bypass the city of Neosho. The stream lies inside of Morse Park and if we try to make a long term change to Hickory then the town has to be onboard with it. This project might start out as just us, but I hope that we can get the town involved with the effort as well. If we can get Neosho to take pride in what they could have then I think that we have a shot. If anyone is interested in the idea of a stream team let me know. If anyone has anymore ideas, please share them! We have already had some good ideas posted so lets keep on it. Travis

That is absolutley awsome. Hopefully this will be a passion that both of you can share for a lifetime .

Thanks for the response. I am a bit surprised that only one person responded to this post as in the last post there were several people concerned over this topic. It makes me wonder if we are more interested in fishing and simply turning a blind eye to the situation than to address the situation with the town and risk failure. I am not trying to offend anyone with that statement; if fishing is the extent of your interest to this creek then that is fine and I have no problem with it. But to say that there is no hope for this stream and that we are outsiders to Neosho comes across as being incorrect. We are not outsiders due to the fact that the money that is used to stock these trout comes from Missouri state taxes and revenues. We also bring in revenue when we stop at a restaurant in town and when we purchase anything in Neosho that we wouldn't have bought if we weren't there for any other reason than Hickory. A lot of the people who post on here would not go to Neosho for any other reason than Hickory Creek. Neosho is missing out big here; Hickory Creek could be a nice trout stream and attract more people to Neosho because of an improved management of this area which would bring a slight increase of revenue for the city. To continue what we are currently doing is to request the same results that we are receiving right now. Unless someone comes to this situation with a different course of action than what we are currently doing, this situation will never become better and all that we can hope for is a sustained level of mediocrity from a stream that possess potential for being so much better. I am not saying that this would be easy and yes, we do risk failure by approaching the city, but failure should be the last thing that we should concern ourselves with right now. I am sorry that this comes out as a rant and I am not meaning to hurt any feelings, but I really like this stream and feel that the only way of improving Hickory is to organize and combine our effort. I can also understand how this might be too much with work and family, but it is something to be considered. Travis

From reading the recent posts, it seems that there is a concensus of concern over this stream. I have to agree with the posts from Ollie in that the town of Neosho needs to act on these concerns that anglers like ourselves have. I wonder if Neosho knows of our concerns or is aware that there is a problem with the way that the stream is managed. It seems to me that this stream should be a center for this town as there are people that travel from Kansas City and Tulsa for no other reason than the fact that there is a trout stream there. The problem is that people like myself will end up driving an extra hour or so because of the neglect that this stream recieves from litter and over harvesting by locals. I wonder if we could get together in a group and address this issue at a city meeting. Does anybody think that meeting with the city about these issues would work? Any suggestions on what we could do to help push these issues with the city? Im afraid that expressing concerns between ourselves does not do much good as anyone who fishes this stream is well aware of the situation that it is in and unless we do something, I'm afraid that this creek will not improve.

Allright, since I brought up some stocking issues here is a good one to read for those who are interested : <http://mdc4.mdc.mo.gov/Documents/11939.pdf> This is a good one on Crane Creek: <http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2000/01/10.htm> Now this document states that the last known stocking of Crane was in the late teens to 1920. I didn't mean to come across that crane might be receiving stockings, I just thought that the history of Crane is interesting. I don't know how i found that 1960 stocking info looking back I have a feeling that it was false. Check those two websites out and see what you think.

Laker, Im not sure that is true. The last stcking of Crane Creek was in 1960. Yes, majority of trout streams in the US are not native, but there is alot of streams that the population of trout come from natural reproduction of the trout in the stream. To me, a wild trout stream is one that the trout in the river naturally reproduce and the population is not reliant upon stocking. This is a subjectional definition, but if we were to consider wild streams as those of only native fish, then no brown trout stream could be classified in that category.

I am a true believer that mountain lions are making their way back to Missouri. I live in KC and Loch Lloyd Country Club has been talking about huge cat prints in their bunkers for at least ten years now. The greens keeper of this course is a very knowledgeable guy and knows bobcat prints from mountain lion prints. It took a lady hitting a mountain lion before local wildlife authorities would admit that mountain lions are in the KC area. Makes me wonder what is in our woods.

Im tying flies trying to kill time until my next trip to Cranewhich got me wondering if anyone has used a sein net at Crane Creek. I was wondering as to what insects are living on the bottom. I would love it if anyone would like to share some info. Travis

My brother bought a fly fishing book for me and the author had really positive things to say about little piney. He said that he was curious as to why more people didn't fish there. I have also heard really positive things about eleven point as well, I've always wanted to fish there but haven't had the chance as of yet. As soon as I graduate from law school, I think Im going to move to Springfeild and get closer to some streams.

What's the best blue ribbon stream in missouri? It seems that everyone in here likes different streams for different reason and I am curiuos to know what is your favorite blue ribbon stream and why? I like Crane for the simple fact that it's closest blue ribbon stream for me and that there is hardly anyone out there when I am there. The fact that the stream holdsMcCloud rainbows doesn't hurt either. But I would really like to hear others oppinions and views of blue ribbon streams in Missouri.