dgames

I will try to add a little to this discussion. I agree with others that I don't use split shot between or below my flies. Mainly I will comment of the depth vs leader/tippet length discussion, In general, I pay attention to the length & thickness of leader/tippet from my indicator to the top fly and to the weight of my flies & split shot. Then it is a matter of balancing trade-offs and adjusting to water conditions. -You want your leader long enough to get the fly down, but if it is too long, you will miss more strikes -You are using the weight of your flies and potentially split shot to get the fly down. Leader material provides resistance to the flies' sinking force. The thicker the leader material, the more resistance to sinking. So, if you go with lighter tippet or a longer length of tippet (4x of smaller) vs the thicker portion of a tapered leader, you can get your fly down deeper and quicker. - Thicker leader material also provides more drag on the fly and makes it harder for the indicator to stay in touch with the flies. Ideally, for strike detection purposes, you want the leader material to be in a straight line and nearly tight from the indicator to the flies. Thin tippet material slices through the water better allowing your indicator to maintain better contact with the flies. -Finally, you need enough weight to get the flies down with the leader you are using and to also keep the leader relatively straight below the water. If you go too light you won't get the fly down and leader will snake around in the varying current speeds under water making it really hard to detect strikes. If you go too heavy, you will hang up on bottom and drag your fly unnaturally. Ideally, I like it if I can get enough weight in my flies to get by without split shot. I feel I get a better drift and and have a more direct connection to direct strikes. -another thought when using 2 flies - I always use the heavier fly as the top fly and then go smaller/lighter with the dropper. As an example, I might use a size 12 bh scud as the top fly with a size 18 zebra midge as the trailer. Or for a bigger rig, a 12 copper john as the top fly with a scud as the trailer. -When using 2 flies, I also usually go 1x smaller for the 'between flies' tippet than I use to the top fly. For example, if I am using 6x to the top fly, I go 7x for the dropper. This way I only lose 1 fly if I hang the bottom fly and I feel it also provides less drag on the top fly. On the water I take these factors into consideration and make adjustments based on water conditions. For example, if I am fishing knee deep light riffles, I probably have 4 or 5 ft total from indicator to top fly with 2 1/2 to 3 feet of that probably 5x & 1 1/5 ft 6x to the top fly. If I use 2 tungsten bead head flies, I probably don't need any shot. If I have things set up right, I will get a false strike indication from the bottom every few casts. If I get them every cast, I am too heavy or have too much leader length. If I never bump bottom, I need more weight. This is getting pretty wordy. Hopefully it makes some sense.

caught a couple at roaring river that I would guess were about 3lbs

Somehow I got the same picture on here 3 times - I don't know how to fix that.

Fished the lower ill friday. Got to work friday morning and in a free moment, took a quick glance at the swp generation schedule website and was shocked to see that Tenkiller was to be shut down all afternoon. A friend from work and I then quickly decided to take the afternoon off to fish it. We got down there a little before 1pm and started out at the dam at the pool just below the cable. We did really well there - probably caught more than 50 fish between us. Had at least 7 or 8 instances where we had doubles on. Nothing big, most were in the 11-12" range with the biggest about 14". Used #14 tan scud and various color zebra midges. The best fly by far was the scud. Here are some pics. As you can see, the water was pretty stained.

size 22 I used 22 midge larvae patterns regularly when I used to go to the San Juan in NM every year. That was pretty standard fare on that river and it was often difficult to catch fish on anything larger. I used to try the same small stuff on the white & norfork tailwaters, but didn't really do any better than with larger flies there. At Roaring River & Bennett, you can usually find some rising fish feeding on some kind of midge. I can usually get them to take my fly if I throw a 20 or 22 dry. The difficult parts are seeing the fly on the water and keeping it from dragging. I probably have less than a 50% hooking average as well on these flies, but it is still fun just getting the fish to rise.

In places where you can see fish actively rising, I have usually had success with size 20 comparadun style dries with either an elk hair wing or cdc wing. I'm not sure color matters that much as long as it is small and fished drag free. One place where there are almost always some rising fish is in the hole where the hatchery outlet runs into the stream.

Is he detecting the strike by feel?

I remember see the monkeys on the decks back in the mid 90's. Seemed like there was a sign on the decks saying something like 'keep away - attack snakes' as well. Just downstream from that was a nice riffle that was always the last spot to catch trout before you reach the dawt mill 'lake'.

for me, a place like Busch would be as incremental hour or two of fishing, never instead of going to a stream. For example, there is a city park pond 10 minutes away from my house that has a decent population of 10" bass. The only time I fish there is when I have an hour or two to kill and I have an itch to fish. That pond gives me a quick fishing fix, but certainly doesn't replace a trip to the north fork or to the white, or even a half day trip to the lower illinois. Rather,instead it is replacing an hour or two watching TV or surfing the net.

Busch isn't an issue with me because I live in Tulsa, but we have a similar deal with a city park pond that gets stocked with trout in the winter (by our local TU chapter by the way I believe). I also would much rather be on a stream in the Ozarks, but a local pond 10 minutes from home allows a few extra opportunities to catch a fish or two. My comment about the trout parks is more directed at the criticism that the trout won't survive year round in these ponds. My point is that most of the trout don't survive the year in the trout parks either and a large percentage don't even make it beyond the first hour after the siren.

This method reminds me of a strike indicator method I learned from a guide on the San Juan in NM in the 90s. That guide had us using just about a 1 foot section of chartreuse amnesia line with a loop on the end. He put a antron yarn indicator on the amnesia about an inch or so from the loop at its end. He then tied 5x tippet directly to the loop with a clinch not and varied the length based on the depth of water we were fishing. The 5x extended all the way to the first fly His reasoning behind the system was that the entire leader was 5x which sinks much faster than a thicker tapered leader. In particular, he thought this system was most effective in getting the fly deep quickly in the deep water of the Texas hole. This thingamabobber rig shares that same concept. You can shorten the length of this tippet quickly with this system because it is pretty quick an easy to cut off a piece and re-tie a clinch not on the amnesia loop (much easier than tying to the eye of a #20 wd40). Lengthening obviously takes a bit more time. I like this system if I am planning to indicator nymph fish all day. The down side is that it is a pain to switch from this to a good dry fly leader.

Is it really that much different than the trout parks? I mean they are both put and take fisheries. I almost think the trout parks are worse with the daily stocking, the opening siren with pretty much everyone catching a fish on the first cast and people leaving with their limits after 30 minutes. Having said that, I find I can enjoy myself at the trout parks by not fishing to opening siren, finding the out of the way spots, sight fishing to rising fish, etc. In the same way, I can see how someone could enjoy themselves at the urban winter trout ponds by ignoring the seedier aspects and just appreciate the chance to catch a fish or two locally without having to drive for hours.

MEAN 155.9 Mean Trout per Mile Numbers 2001-2008 Current River 467 Trout per mile Meramec 356 Trout Per mile Eleven Point River 752 Trout per mile Little Piney Creek 157 Trout Per Mile Number of trout in each cubic feet per second of stream (if you follow what I mean by that) Current River 1.42 Trout per CFS Meramec River 0.7 Trout per CFS Eleven Point River 1.03 Trout per CFS Little Piney Creek 1.01 Trout per CFS So just kinda take this for what it's worth, which I'm sure ain't much... I think there is merit to this comparison although I do agree that an appropriate tweak would be to use "normal" low water flow and ignore flood events. Anyway, while not perfect, I think it would be a pretty good tool to compare the relative abundance of fish in a river. The numbers above imply that the current has the highest fish density & meramec the lowest of these. I haven't fished them all so I can't really relate that to personal experience on these rivers. This ranking order does make sense to me based on my perception of the reputation of these rivers though. I would be interested to see similar numbers for the north fork above & below blair. I would guess that the N Fork would compare well to the Current.

here

Really nice videos. I love that river. What part did you float? Was some of that footage from the top island above Patrick Bridge? I thought I recognized the run with the fish landing sequence.

Slough Creek or San Juan

In my mind, the problem with KC Masterpiece sauce is that you can get about 5 varieties of KC Masterpiece sauce at pretty much any grocery store in the US or at least in the midwest. Hence, to me it really isn't a unique place I would make a point of visiting if I was in KC for a weekend. Obviously, lots of people like it though because they sell millions of bottles of it. I do agree with your comment that pretty much all of these places are pretty good. If you do go to Bryant's, you gotta at least try the original sauce- it's what made them famous. I have to say that the first time I tried it, I didn't like it, but then I tried it again and it started to grow on me. Now it is a craving thing. To kind of get my fix, I bring home several bottles of sauce whenever I go to KC now.

I will add that the atmosphere of Bryant's is worth at least one visit.

Arthur Bryant's is a very unique style and generally people really love it or really don't like it. The original sauce almost has a gritty texture from the chili powder in it that turns some people off. I am in the camp that loves it though. I lived in KC in the late 80s/early 90s, but now live in Oklahoma. My mother in law lives there and I pretty much have to go to AB whenever we go to visit. The ribs are really good slathered with the sauce. The brisket or pork sandwiches are also really good and huge. Another really unique BBQ place I used to really like when I lived in KC is Rosedale's on SW blvd. Their sauce had some unique spices. Gates is also pretty popular and there are several of them around town. Probably my least favorite of the well known places was KC Masterpiece as that always came across to me as somewhat generic tasting.

I fished the gravel pit access last weekend for the first time and really liked it as well. It took me a while to get into fish there, but I did end up catching about 10 or so in a couple of hours, including one that went 18 or 19 inches. I like the riffle water there.

Thanks also for the heads up. I bought a ridiculous amount of stuff. Incredible deals. I got one the last fly rods that wasn't part of a combo- a pretty nice looking 9' 5wt for $10. Bought several spinning outfits ($5 rods -$10 fin-nor reels) a pretty nice baitcasting combo for $20 as well as fly reels and a nice chest pack.

Thanks for the reply. I Didn't know about the regs on walleye. I probably just won't keep anything. I have trolled with this boat successfully in OK for sand bass on lake eufala. I assume it would need to be a deep diving crankbait. Is that correct. As far as the brush piles, I have a lake topo map that has many of these marked & numbered. I assume it would be fairly straight forward to locate one with the locator and throw out a buoy. Does the buoy spook the fish in the really clear water?

We are spending a week on lower Bull Shoals at the end of July for a family vacation. We are staying in a cove on sister creek (the one on the south side of the lake). This is mainly a pleasure boating trip where my kids will be wakeboarding, kneeboarding, etc. Although it isn't a fishing trip, I will have the opportunity to fish some, particularly early in the morning or late. I plan to hit the tailwater for trout at least a time or two, but I am also interested in doing some lake fishing. I do have a boat, but it isn't a fishing boat. It is a 21' stern drive runabout - no trolling motor - but it does have a fish locator on it. Any suggestions on lake fishing that week? Do the bass come up into the coves in the morning or evening? Is there good activity at the various places along the lake where they have sunken brush? I would be fairly open to whatever species & methods would present a fairly reasonable chance for success - bass, walleye, sand bass, whatever. I appreciate any help. Oh, I am generally a catch & release fisherman. If I got into some pan size walleye, I might consider keeping a couple, but anything else would definitely get released (and probably walleye too - my kids don't eat fish and I don't want the hassle of keeping and cleaning fish). Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks.

I caught several browns at watts this past saturday. The first one surprised me because I had never caught a brown on the Ill before.