OzarkFishman

Thanks RS, I will check it out next time I float from up around there to the Park

Thanks CWF, I didn't catch that.

The elk that was shot Why could they not sedate the elk that was shot? Where had the elk been roaming (actual data from collar)? Elk area/range What is considered elk area? What is the standard protocol for an elk that strays from the "area"? What would happen if an elk crossed the state border? Sustainability/environmental impact What is the projected number of animals before viable hunting season is allowed? How will a hunting season be established? Who will be allowed to hunt for them? When is the hunting season forseeable? What if the Arkansas and Missouri elk Breed? What happens if deer with CWD are found on Pecks Ranch to the elk herd? How much is this project going to cost over 3, 5, and 10 years and where is the forseeable break even point or self sustaining point? What weeds do the elk eat, and how will it improve the forest ecology it will habitat in?

Wayne there are only 2 opinions, but they are not those two. Everyone agress that climate is changing. The 2 opinions are that man has a MEASURABLE effect on the climate OR man does not. I will say that my opinions have been changed as a result of this thread. Admitting that an opinion can change seems to be a sign of weakness these days, I DON'T buy in to that way of thinking. One idea that keeps being brought up in this thread is that no one knows what they are talking about .... REALLY??? I am a fairly intelligent person, school was easy ... yet I openly admit that there are WAY more intelligent people out there that can wrap their brain around ideas and see connections that most cannot. Being a teacher, I see those kids that already have closed their minds (as a result of their parents) ... They speak with certainty and "know" the junk they are spewing is truth. To each their own, I choose to keep my mind open and listen to smart people (with the BS detector on, like ness said). Yes, politics are entwined in EVERY aspect of life and true objectivity is harder and harder to find ...

Kirby ... any response would definitely be TOO political from me to keep this thread going. All I will say is that we can only control OURSELVES and try to be good examples everyday (like I said before, we all fail daily). This has been a fun thread (maybe we can make it the first to touch on climate change and a little politics and not get axed).

So we can all agree that the world cycles, has ice ages and inter-glacial periods. The world WILL warm up to a point that enough methane is released (I think most know this) that a HUGE problem will be on our hands ... not that there isn't already a problem. The only argument is whether or not we are speeding the process ... To me, it is black or white ... either we do speed it up, even a little (or a lot) OR we have no effect. I can't understand people saying that we have some effect, but not enough to matter ... for who (our generation, 5 generations from now, ...). Pick a side. Not really calling anyone out on this thread, just spewing stuff out of my brain for some reason or another. Like someone already said, in the end we all can see the obvious answer. We should find alternative energy (for sustainability of humanity, that leaves out the argument of global warming), we should cut emissions (while in the short term it can have a cooling effect, acid rain isn't fun) and we should try to replant as much forest as possible. Seems easy enough. Defend the only way to move forward however you want, I think that the correct path will be taken (we WILL argue along the way). At least that is my hope, putting my faith in the same human kind that didn't know how a star was truly formed until 2004 when scientists could finally see inside a nebula (don't get me started ... I LOVE astronomy). Does anyone know how much astronomy has evolved in the last 8 years ... MIND BLOWING ...

I have been reading some of the links that Tim has posted. The particulate article was very informative and I learned a lot. The skeptic article was alright, but the comments on the link are pretty AMAZING. Some pretty smart individuals from both sides going at it. Look at post 14 for one of the sides of the argument ... and post 13 for the other. Both offer good "facts" (of course one side never agrees with the other). On to trying to LEARN more ...

My recommendation is to set some lines as quick as possible at all 3 locations the first day you are there. Check them later, then adjust the lines to where the fish are biting. This works best if you stay 2 nights (as a lot of the fish come over night). Otherwise, points that are close to the channel AND flats (15 - 25 foot flats with the hooks set at 5 and 13 feet give or take a few feet).

CWF, Have you read any of his stuff or gone to any of the links??? It doesn't matter what side you are on, science is fun to study and learn. Make judgements on validity yourself, but to talk anyone down for trying to further themselves through personal research on the internet is a little ridiculus. I am sure that I share some opinions with both of you, the difference right now is PROOF. Not trying to get between any little tiffs on this board ... but numbers, science and a little common sense go a long way (don't read into that and think that I am saying that you do not have common sense, that is not what I am implying).

Hate to speak for Phil ... I would assume if we talk as adults and don't attack each other, then he would let it go. I would even venture a guess that every thread that received the big X has MANY personal attacks.

I have actually never been to Linden or the ramp there (even though I live in Ozark). Is there a place to park legally?? Is the ramp good enough to actually back a boat in (maybe a stupid question, but I don't mind if people judge me)? Maybe another stupid question ... are outboards allowed? I do understand that I could just drive up there myself, but what would be the point of this forum ... fisherman helping fisherman ...

I completely agree with wrench. Catfish seem to jump on hooks at LOZ.

Awesome fish!!! I love how kids can't keep their eyes off of the fish (my boy does the same thing in pictures).

It's all good ness, can't fault a guy for name recognition problems (I forget students' names daily). i also quit watching cable "news". Research on the internet CAN BE so much more objective (at least if you cross reference your sources).

Ness ... First, I didn't laugh anything off about the graph (don't know where that came from). Second, I TOTALLY agree with your thought on getting past the snarky comments and actually that was my first point (other than a stupid post I made about a badge). All I want is adult conversation, without "snarky" comments in almost every post. AND hard scientific data, which I already stated. But TV and Radio and Politicians and what seems to be everyone these days wants to say these words and only these words ... I AM CORRECT, YOU ARE WRONG AND YOU ARE STUPID FOR BEING WRONG. YIPPEE, I AM AWESOME!!! I do my best to steer clear of those thoughts, but we all fail daily ...

No, that isn't the thought. It is the combination of Massive human population growth combined with deforestation. Another variable that would have to be looked at would be ... are there more eatable sized-animals on the planet today or in the past. Many would say this is stupid and it must be in the past, but we can fit a lot of animals in a small area these days. I would venture a guess that there are more crooked people of the cloth than scientists ...

This was just a thought I had last night, don't know that it is brilliant but it sure puts a spin on things. I do believe that we are hurting ourselves with the mindboggling emmissions that happen daily (no matter how the numbers are or are not skewed). I also believe that our beautiful, wonderful planet cycles as all life does (Earth in my mind is alive, the violin is playing in the background). Tweener is what I call myself (on most HUGE subjects, not that I can't take a stand, but who has all the variables on these HUGE problems). Back to my thought ... What if the real problem with this WORLD is that we were smart enough to domesticat animals .... no, I am not talking about animal farts. As a result of domestication more and more people could fit into smaller and smaller areas. Before this, most humans were nomadic hunter/gatherers. This was simple. Humans and animals could only live off of the plants and other animals that they (themselves) could kill/harvest. Knowing how to grow crops helped, but it was the animal domestication (in my mind) that led to HUGE population booms for the world. There is essentially no limit to how big a society can get (disease and such can happen, but we all know that). As a result, humanity had to grow and in its growth came deforestation. This leads me to the meat and potatoes of the thought, could at least some of the increased "greenhouse gases" be due to an increase in animals and humans and a decrease in plants (that is elementary science). Am I saying that this outways the emmision problem ... hardly, but it is a thought that doesn't get discussed much. Those 500 years of data could help me do some research ... hint. hint ...then I could look at the CO2 levels (computer models, likely found online) and cross-reference it with population charts and de-forestation charts from the last 500 years. Of course, deforestation and domestication happened well before 500 years ago BUT everything these days is BIGGER and FASTER. 500 years is a lot of data ... WARNING: This thought may be pointless

I was just trying to get people to quit spouting talking points from fill-in-the-blank radio and tv "news" shows. A simple CONVERSATION about the science that is behind this. Wouldn't it be great to see those 500 year old records from China? I like science and facts and since there are so many strong opinions on this board, I figured facts would be the best way to argue any point (some have already posted facts). You asked where to start ... how about anyone that hasn't already done so, defend their statements with factual evidence (this could get hairy, but let's try to keep religion out of it if possible). If you don't like this idea, then keep up with the same ol' same ol'. I will go back to worrying about Elk (dang it, I capitalized it again). PS - the sarcasm on this board runs deep, it took me a few years to catch up ...

Jokes aside, we are starting to put together a nice list here. It would be nice to send the email(s) out by Friday.

Yes ... all great, but you are still capitalizing elk ... This is freaking me out man (these snozberries, taste like snozberries) ...

Some questions to start with ... Why could they not sedate this particular Elk? Where have the Elk been roaming (actual data from collars ... preferably online)? What is considered Elk area (where can the Elk roam without getting tazed (don't taze me man) or shot)? I will change the wording. What is the standard protocol for an Elk that strays from the "area"? What would happen if an Elk crossed the border (has a more dramatic effect if I don't include state)? Why the heck are we capitalizing the word Elk ... My dad is an Elk's Lodge member ... is that why??? You guys can answer this one ... haha Keep the questions coming ...

Don't see this thread lasting much longer ... If it does, why don't we put forward ACTUAL DATA. I am a tweener that tries to see all the angles (no human can do such a thing). My personal belief has no bearing on any of you, but sharing data and knowledge is fun for intelligent adults like all of us. Tables, graphs, actual links to studies (of course one side will discredit the credibility of the experiment and visa-versa ... tis life). If I find any mind-blowing experiments in the next few days, then I will share.

I agree Tim, the shows are getting a tad ridiculus. I did hear about those bigteeth, unicorn goldfish in Belizeacongoeastafriganistan ... Now that is crazy stuff .... wait, Pacu ... back to the thread ...

I would say 100 posts is a good baseline for troll patch ... too bad both of us lost it by posting ... But you said EPIC ... no clue ...

If you all want to post any question on here (please word it in a professional matter so that I don't have to change it), then I will compile a list over the next few days and post the "finalized" list on here and we will go from there. Enjoy your day guys and gals, OzarkFishman