ozark trout fisher

I have never been in either of these shops, although I'm meaning to. I have always ordered my flies and fly tying materials off flyshack.com so I don't have to make a special trip into St. Louis. But I'd like to try one of the two shops soon.

It's a shame that those folks on the Norfork treated you as they did. Such is the behavior that gets fly fishers categorized as snobs. Spinner and jig fisherman have the same rights to fish our rivers as fly fishers, no debate there. There have been certain people in previous threads that have labeled me as the kind of fly fisher that looks down on spin-fisherman in general. That really couldn't be further from the truth, and I just want to be crystal clear about that. There maybe certain methods of fishing that I think are a little shady, but spin-fishing isn't one of them.

I understand what you're saying, and no offense taken. I'm sure there are fly fisherman out there somewhere who look down on spin-fishers, but I am not one of them, and I don't know of anyone who is. I think there may have been a time when there were more fly fishing snobs out there, but I can't say that for sure either since I have only been fly fishing seriously for a couple years myself. The way it is now, most of the fly fisherman I talk to don't in any way feel they are above spin fisherman, and I feel the same way. I choose to spend about 95% of my time on the water these days fly fishing (which means that I also spend about 5% of my time spin-fishing). But that's my business, not anyone else's. I'm never going to ridicule someone spin-fishing on a Blue Ribbon stream or anywhere else as long as they are staying within the law, and frankly I don't know of anyone who would. The myth of the holier than thou fly fisherman is largely that- a myth, with a few inevitable exceptions.

The trail didn't cross the creek- I just stopped to fish it on the way down. The stream I'm referring to is accessible by road The stream is very small and would be sensitive to pressure, so I'm not comfortable posting it's name. I'd love to help you out, but I'd feel kinda guilty posting it on a board that gets this much traffic. Here's my best hint- it's public water, and it's somewhere in the Gasconade watershed-which narrows it down to three or four streams that I can think of. Past that I cannot say.

Exactly. When you start seeing icicles on the bluffs is when the real fishing starts on the Current. No crowds and great fishing. The colder and nastier the weather the better-it keeps the number of people down.

I'm glad you had a good trip. The dry-dropper rig is about the best trick you can use down there. And the catch and release area does have big fish for sure. I have broken off by more fish there than anywhere else

I'll just bet you that I am on said list... I don't know of anyone on OAF or elsewhere that has a problem with spin-fishing, myself included. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to bet that all of the so called "purist" fly fishers on here pick up a spinning rod sometimes and enjoy it too. Again, myself included. The whole idea that you even could characterize as snob someone you have never met in person is a little absurd in itself. But still Drew, I'd like to see the list. You seem to be looking down on those elitist fly fishers a lot more than anyone else is looking down on spin-fisherman.

Hey, I have no problem whatsoever with someone spin fishing these creeks as long as they stay within the law. It's a fine way to fish them, and I am certainly not above fishing a spinner or a marabou jig if the conditions demand it. I just think that in normal water conditions, a light fly rod and small nymphs will get you into more fish than spinners or jigs. That may not be the case for all, but it certainly has been my experience. I also happen to enjoy fly fishing them more than I do spin-fishing, so it's the method I use more often than not-but that's a personal decision, and no reflection on what I think others should choose to do. But spinning gear does tend to get me into larger than average fish, it's just that the numbers are considerably less. And spin-fishing these creeks the way they should be fished is not easy- I would venture to say no easier than fly fishing them.

There's supposed to be rain down that way today. Hopefully that will help. It is needed very badly for sure.

It could be the low water... But they didn't seem to be anywhere there was any current, even if it was deep. It just seemed like the didn't want to fight the current for some reason or another-and the smallmouth bass seemed to be located in areas that I'd generally consider frog water.

I'm just surprised more streams didn't have a lot of trouble over this summer. There were some wild trout streams that I was worried about having fish kill over the summer, but trips this fall have confirmed that they did okay. As a matter of fact, most of the trout waters that I've fished have seemed alright, except the Meramec. A lot of them fished badly right during the heat, but most have recovered since fall started to cool things down. That tells me that the trout in most of the streams just went kinda dormant throughout our heat-wave, but I think a good number may have died on the Meramec. I also think that wild trout are more capable of finding spring-holes and other thermal refuges in high water temps than the stockers. Of course the Current is the exception to the rule. It seemed to fish well right through the heat-it always fishes well.

I'd say warm water temps may be the biggest factor in it's demise. We had an incredibly hot summer, and I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was some fish kill down there. The water coming in from above Meramec Spring is well in the 80s when it's that hot, and you also have Dry Fork Creek pouring in similar water temps., and Maramec Spring just can't offset that kind of heat coming in. So the trout either migrated to a the mouth of the spring-branch, sulked under the shade of an undercut bank, or went belly up. That's my theory anyway. It could get slowly better as some more trout starting to move downstream, and of course there will be some decent fishing this spring after the brown trout stocking. But I do question the wisdom of continuing to manage that area of the Meramec as a trophy trout area-I just don't think the habitat is good enough for a truly high quality fishery, except right near the spring.

I think that a spinning rod can be a valuable tool on wild trout waters, but I think it really can be limiting if it's your only method of fishing them. The primary food base for most wild trout is the nymphs of small aquatic insects, and the most effecient way to imitate them is with a fly rod. I know you can do it with a bubble float and a spinning rod, but fly fishing just allows a more delicate presentation. Also, many times dry flies work better than anything else on small wild trout,especially when the water is low, and you're pretty much out of luck there with a spinning rod. And the fly fishing I do on these little creeks is anything but difficult. I fished a small wild trout stream over the weekend, and caught plenty of fish. I never made a cast of more than 20 feet, and I caught several pretty much right at my feet-and my leader wasn't even 10' long. Fly fishing for trout doesn't have to be the complicated far and fine fishing that everyone says it should be. The honest to goodness truth that a lot of people aren't willing to admit is that it can be just as easy as spin-fishing if you want it to be. But if the water is up and a little bit dirty, I'd grab the spinning rod and a tackle box full of 1/32 ounce panther martin spinners. In that situation a skilled spin-fisherman will outfish the fly guy nine times out of ten..

I enjoy all my time spent in the deep Ozarks, but this weekend was especially good. I managed to get out of the house about noon on Friday, and headed down to my destination-Paddy Creek Wilderness area, where I would be hiking. But along the way, I passed one of the little Blue Ribbon streams in that area, and I just couldn't resist the temptation to pull off and take a few casts. I rigged up with my standard small stream rig, a #16 Hare's Ear Nymph under a little stick-on indicator. The first riffle I came too didn't look very promising-less than a foot deep except in a couple pockets-but just to be sure I took a quick cast. Just as the drift was ending and the nymph was starting to swing in the current below me, I felt a hard tug and was into a fish. After a surprisingly tough battle, I brought a beautiful 9" rainbow to hand. It was a knock-out, the classic wild trout with the dark green back, the dark spots, and the incredibly bright pink stripe. After that fish, I started to notice that there were fish rising all through that riffle-really an incredible concentration of trout for this marginal little creek. Even after they started rising, I still managed to catch a couple more small trout. But finally they started refusing the nymph. The hatch was a typical mix and match small stream deal, some little Blue Winged Olives, some big Caddis, and I don't know what all else. In any case I tied on a #14 Ausable Wulff, a little attractor dry that is easy to see and will generally fool unpressured trout. It worked fine, and I was able to finish off the evening with five more fish on the dry fly. I devoted Saturday to hiking. The trails through Paddy Creek Wilderness provide some of the best views I've seen in the Ozarks-in one stretch of ridge-line trail, you could see miles of hills, bluffs, and low mountains for miles in all directions, with very few signs of civilization. It's amazing that we still have areas so truly wild right here in Missouri. The fall colors are pretty much at their peak now, and it just made it that much better. I'd reccomend the trails at Paddy Creek to just about anyone. This morning I fished the Big Piney. I didn't have enough big streamers or crayfish imitations to give it a go with the fly rod, so I spin-fished. I started out fishing a very nice pool. This pool had a good amount of current, but was also deep and had lots of cover. But there just didn't seem to be any life. The water did seem to be very chilly, and if there were fish in that pool then I sure couldn't find them. I tried everything from spinnerbaits to crankbaits to soft plastics, and just nothing. So I moved upstream to a deep, slow pool and started working the water. This pool is really only marginally wadeable, but with the low water, I could just barely make it work. In any case, I finally found some fish there. I was using a rooster tail spinner and it worked well. I caught quite a few smallies and a couple largemouth-none bigger than about 14 inches, but still I'm not complaining. Someone may come along and find something completely different, but just based on my short experience today, I'd say the smallies are starting to head to their winter lies now-there just didn't seem to be any fish in the faster water. In all it was a great weekend exploring a great area of the Ozarks.

I know what your saying. The first time I ever fly fished for trout was on Blue Spring Creek, and the water was real low. It was an interesting day.......... I only managed to catch one 8" bow pretty much by accident, but I limited out on trees:) Little #18-20 Hare's Ears and Pheasant Tails will get you into fish if your streamcraft is right.

Big Piney If the backpacking trip takes a shorter amount of time than I'm expecting, then I may make it down to the Current. The original plan was to do the "right" thing and leave on Saturday, but if one doesn't skip out to go fishing once in a while then he ain't living right...

darn. Don't I get at least one point for keeping my avatar despite heavy criticism? I think I'm gonna let this one go for now. I got to pack up for a backpacking/fishing trip I'm leaving on in the morning, and I think I've gotten all the fun there is to be had out of this one anyway. I'm low on flies and I have to tie a couple up real quick.........

I just know I'm never going to fish in a way that requires me to throw rocks in order to scare fish- Personally I get a little more pleasure out of trying not to scare fish. Any fishing technique that requires you to throw rocks just seems like a deeply disruptive and disrespectful method, both to the river and the those who fish it. If you can snag them without the help of throwing rocks, then you might have something.

If nothing else it looks like the forecast is coming together pretty well-light rain and very warm temps-that may just be enough to keep water temps where they need to be. In any case I'll give it a shot. It would be hard to have a bad time on the Big Piney.

I didn't say they were pathetic. I just said it's pathetic if you're having to physically herd the fish with rocks, in just the same way that it's pathetic for a fly fisherman on one of the tailwaters to resort to the San Juan Shuffle so they can catch trout right off their feet. If you have to resort to certain things in fishing, then I'd say it's better to get skunked. I want to make it abundantly clear that I did not call grabbers in general "pathetic." The fact that you said I did proves that you are willing to twist the words of others to make an argument. Snagging actually sounds difficult, and even sporting in it's own right. But that changes if they are having to throw rocks to herd fish in order to make it easier.

Good try Chief, but I happen to know that repeatedly throwing rocks does indeed scare fish, and usually for quite a while. Are you really even disputing that? Is the sky blue on a sunny day? I can also attest to the fact that there is a slight difference in degree between an occasional walnut falling in the water and someone throwing a bunch of big rocks. "Every person/animal/bird/fish/what have you has a comfort zone. Cross it and you are finished." Right. And big rocks being thrown in the water crosses that comfort line for every fish species I know of other than than a mentally deficient bluegill. On the other hand, a fish just seeing you doesn't necessarily kill your chances. And in any case, do you really think it's sporting to herd fish with thrown rocks? That seems kind fishy (pun intended) in it's own right, even if it didn't affect someones fishing. I'd say that if you having to herd the fish it gets kind of pathetic.

I said "roughly" like Roaring River State Park... The crowds on this section of the Current really aren't much less than that of a trout park on a slower than usual day, so I think that there is some valid comparison there. But I would agree with you that it may not be the best analogy. I actually think sucker snagging is totally an okay method. It's a tradition, passed down in some Ozark families, and I think that those traditions should be allowed to continue whenever and wherever it isn't having a big negative impact. But think of it this way.... Someone sets up on a nice, deep, trout filled pool early in the morning, with a gigging pole, some treble hooks, and a whole bunch of rocks. That person throws rocks in the pool to herd the suckers so he can snag them. Every trout in the pool is frightened and probably even leaves the pool, likely for the balance of the day. These are Blue Ribbon fish, and the water is low. They spook easy and they don't go back to feeding for a good long time after such a disturbance. Then the snagger leaves at noon, and a trout fisherman comes down to fish the same pool at 1 PM, after he leaves. And this will happen-this is crowded water and the good pools don't stay unoccupied for long. This is this guy's favorite pool, the one he had been looking forward to fishing for the last month. But for some odd reason, the fish just aren't there. He can't catch a thing, and he doesn't even see any fish. And all because another fisherman-in this case a snagger-used a method that frightened the fish very badly, not anticipating how he might ruin the experience for the next guy to come along. If they are going to snag suckers in a very popular Blue Ribbon area, can they at least leave the rock throwing part out? Surely that isn't asking too much.

I don't have a problem with sucker snagging in most areas- but on really crowded water, it just doesn't work out well. It scares too many fish away for the other fisherman, whether they are fly or spin anglers. I do not have a problem with snagging on more secluded streams where there method doesn't ruin as many people's fishing. Snagging at Baptist Camp is roughly equivalent to someone setting up shop and snagging suckers, say, in Roaring River State Park. It just doesn't work out well for anyone with that many fisherman around. And for every upper Current, I can probably name you 10 creeks where I have no problem whatsoever with sucker snagging. I don't really understand where everyone is getting the idea that I am railing against spin-fisherman either. I don't have a problem with spin fishing on the Current or anywhere else for that matter. One final point- I'm not even suggesting that snagging should be banned in the Current River. I am just suggesting that it is an inconsiderate behavior on this particular stretch of stream, in just the same way that some fly fisherman are inconsiderate of other fisherman.

I am hiking this weekend in Paddy Creek Wilderness, and plan to take along the rod along for a little side trip over to the Big Piney after I'm done. Do you think the bass will still be in their normal warm-water lies, or will they be starting to move do the slower, deeper water? I know of a couple accesses that are have really good wade fishing during the summer, but I'm not sure about now.

How come they so often change their mind based on public opinion? They were going to raise the price on deer tags and fishing licenses a couple years ago, but everyone was throwing a hissy fit because they weren't willing to pay an extra five bucks to help our conservation department provide us with quality hunting and fishing. And sure enough, they changed their mind. The MDC does listen to our opinions-maybe too much, in the since that it makes it difficult for them to make good, practical decisions.