ozark trout fisher

Honestly, I think asking how many over 8" is kinda missing the point when your fishing for streambred trout. When I'm after wild (yes, I said wild) rainbows, I'm looking for a beautiful, colored up little trout, not a trophy. With that said, based on pictures I've seen, I don't think there are any shortages of big fish in the NFoW. Personally, I like Brian Wise's definition. Makes since

Me too!

I'll have to admit y'all got some big fish down there... Man I gotta get down there and float it.

I just looked at the data for the NFOW, which is linked to on another thread on this site. For the Blue Ribbon area, there are 519 trout per mile (all but 34 rainbows), and in the Red Ribbon area there area there are 1051 trout per mile, all but 83 browns. I just don't know how it can be stated that fish with hatchery genes can not be wild. Probably 90% of the trout people call wild have at least some hatchery genes around. By this calculation, every single rainbow and brown trout in the mountain west (except for right near the Pacific coast, where rainbows are native) and Appalachian region is nothing more than a naturally reproduced stocker. Even the native cutthroat out west, and the native brookies out east for the most part have hatchery genes in their bloodline somewhere. If every trout with hatchery genes was not wild, there would be only a few remnant populations of trout, all in extremely remote areas, that would be considered wild. Nearly every trout stream or lake in America has at some point in time recieved hatchery trout. In my opinion, any stream born fish is wild. Maybe not native, but wild nonetheless. I have fished in Native trout fisheries in the rocky mountain west, as well as some in the Appalachians, and I can tell you that a wild rainbow here acts no less wild than one anywhere else.

I saw the shocking data for the river's Blue Ribbon area, and I couldn't help but noticing that there are something well over 500 trout per mile. I'd say that's a pretty good population. Just curious Laker, can fish with stocker genes never be wild? Because the naturally reproducing trout act just as wild as any wild trout out west or east. That would be making the case that, for example, the rainbows in the Madison River are not wild, because they are not native. It doesn't fly with me.

Yeah, folks need to keep this in mind on all the Blue Ribbon areas... I may direct my attention to stocked streams for a little while.

Just out of curiosity, what did your research tell you as far as spawning temps for largemouth vs. smallmouth bass. I'm honestly curious about how much it varied with what I found... I'll admit that I was in a hurry when I did my research (I also am now, so I don't have time to check up on it), so I only got to look at a couple sources. I totally think bottom substrate (and nest raiding trout) have something to do with the lack of smallmouth, I'm not arguing with you on that one. But they just may not be the only factors.

Sounds like a plan... I've never tried sink tip before, but I bet it would be a hassle.

I was wondering if St. Johns Creek, which flows through Washington holds fish. It sure looks good, and I was wondering if it has largemouth, catfish, whatever. It's probably too slow and murky for smallmouth but who knows.

I researched a bit to see what was going on here, and everything I have read points to the fact the smallmouth do not begin spawning until the water temperature reaches 65 degrees, while largemouth begin when it hits 55 degrees. I do believe, based on this, that largemouth can, and will spawn in colder water than smallies. The main difference between the Canadian lakes and Taneycomo, is that Taneycomo has a relatively stable water temperature throughout the year. The lakes in southern Canada, while they become very cold in the winter, probably do warm up to 65 degrees on a regular basis, year in and year out. Lake Taneycomo probably reaches 65 some years, but it's probably not consistent enough for basis for the bass to really get used to it, and it probably occurs too late in the summer as well. Now it may reach 65 some years in the creek arms during the spawning season, and that would be the areas where smallmouth would have the opportunity to get some spawning done. On the other hand, if I'm correct, Lower Taneycomo does reach 55 degrees, the minimum for largemouth bass spawning most years, and probably many years during the spawning time. That would explain why largemouth are more prevalent in the lake. I'm not saying bottom substrate doesn't have anything to do with it, it probably does. But water temperature is probably a big factor also.

Sounds like something I need to try. No shuttles=no other floaters. I think I'm gonna have to try this.

Congrats. On a side note a #36 is the smallest fly I've ever heard of anyone using....

I'm not saying Bennett Spring itself is any warmer than Maramec Spring. I'm just saying that the Niangua above the park has more water than Maramec above the park, so the warm water on the Niangua is less diluted by the spring's influence. Honestly, I think the fact that smallies are more abundant on the east end of Table Rock than the west end kinda plays into my theory. The upper end (west end) of Table Rock is fed by the Beaver tailwater, which is a cold water dam. Therefore the water in that area is probably colder than the lower end, possibly too cold for smallies to do well. Just an idea.

I'm going fishing on one of the trout rivers for a couple days in the week before Christmas, and I can't decide between the Current, Eleven Point, and the North Fork. What would be my chances to get into some good brown trout fishing down in the Red Ribbon area around that time? I had thought about floating down from Patrick to Dawt. I've been wanting to try the North Fork, and this may be my chance. Also, will a floating line suffice, or do I need a sink-tip?

That's nuts.... To think the state record brown spent time in a trash truck, that's crazy. This is a very literal interpretation of the phrase "one man's trash is another's treasure" LOL.

That's why I said it's generally the case. I didn't say it applies in any and all cases. I just think that largemouth have a wider range of waters they can inhabit, from really cold high country lakes in Northwest Montana and Canada all the way to the Everglades in Florida. Smallies are pretty adaptable, but I'm just saying they don't tend, in most cases, to do as well in really cold, or really warm water as largemouth. While the Niangua is technically a coldwater fishery around Bennett, I don't think it's as cold as the Meramec in it's trout water. Hence smallies can do well there. I do think smallmouth can survive well in cold waters, but they just can't spawn well. It might be an interesting put and grow situation if they stocked every year or so with smallies Taneycomo. But like I said earlier, I do not know the lake, so I really have no idea.

Let me preface this by saying that I know nothing about Taneycomo, so I wouldn't take this to mean too much. But here's what I've noticed. It seems to me that in really cold water, largemouth bass actually tend to do better than smallies. I know that's opposite to what most people would think, but I'm convinced it true. Just as one example, with a couple exceptions, almost every bass I have ever caught out of the Red Ribbon area of the Meramec has been a largemouth. Now upstream, and downstream of this area, where the water is warmer, I have caught mostly smallmouth. Also, while I'm not sure this really applies here, if you look at the cold-water lakes in Montana or Colorado for example, if there are any species of Black Bass present, it is usually largemouth. Here's my opinion on it... Smallmouth have a really thin water temperature niche where they can reproduce. As everyone knows, smallmouth like cool, but not too cold of water. While largemouth certainly prefer warm water, I find they can survive and reproduce in all but the coldest of waters, even lakes in Northwest Montana lakes at 7000 feet. The water temperature niche of a largemouth is just extremely wide, and they can survive most anywhere, while a smallie's temperature niche is pretty thin. They are simply not as adaptable. Now, there may be areas of Taneycomo that would work well for smallies, I don't know. But I wouldn't be all that sure. I think introducing them is worth a try though.

I have a whole list. My absolute all time favorite is "Trout" written by Ray Bergman more than 50 years ago. It's still very relevant, and although I've read the whole thing multiple times, I still learn something new each time. Fly fishing for Trout in Missouri is another great book. Besides talking about the trout opportunities in Missouri, it goes into the various fly fishing techniques, methods that apply anywhere. It's off the charts expensive however, if you can find it at all. My copy cost nearly $100 (used), but I do think it was worth it. Also Blue Ribbon Trout Fishing in the Ozarks is great, and it only costs about $20. In my opinion, it more thoroughly covers trout fishing opportunities in the Ozarks than Fly Fishing for Trout in Missouri, but is pretty slim on instructional reccomendations. Pretty much just a "where to" book, but a darn good one. Fly Fishing:A trailside Guide (by John Merwin) is also awesome if you're new to the sport. It pretty much covers everything you have to know to learn how to fly fish, but you may be well past that stage. I could go on and on (I like to read books about fishing almost as much as I like to fish), but I'll stop here for now. Good luck

I would have never guessed Taney was a good bass lake... Learn new things everyday. Do most of them live up in the creek arms, where the water's a bit warmer? I'm assuming 5-12 pounders are largemouth right? If they're smallies that'd be crazy

I don't know for down and across, I just flip it directly across stream, and follow the drift down with my rod. When the fly is directly downstream, I strip it in a few feet, let it drift back (for some reason unknown to me, its seems like a lot of fish strike at this point), and then lift it up to cast again. A strike is easily felt unless you get too much slack. It's just the way I was taught to nymph, like I said, I never really knew there was another way until recently. Thanks for the help. This is all very interesting.

No problem. I stepped over the line with my post, so I felt it would be best to just delete it, and get back to talking about fishing. That's why we're here anyway.

Thanks for the post. Whatever your position on the war, those guys have it beyond tough and they ought to be recognized as heroes.

Post edited... The forum rules say no politics, and so I'm gonna edit out the semi-political comment out of this post. The last thing we need is another argument.

Thanks for the help guys. Just out of curiosity, do you all agree that on the smaller trout waters where trout tend to be wary, strike indicators are detrimental to success? I would love to learn how to become proficient as upstream nymphing, as I really think it will be helpful on the smaller creeks. Sure, I can get away with fishing down and across on some parts of the Little Piney or the Current, but it's a pretty tough sell on the really little creeks where the fish are super skittish.

I was wondering when you guys are fishing upstream with nymphs how you detect the strike. I have always fished the down and across method, and I've never really heard of people doing it any other way till I got on this site. Of course on the down and across method, detecting a strike is super easy, but I'd have no idea how to go about it on a straight upstream cast without using an indicator? (which I try not to use on smaller streams, because I'm convinced they scare fish). I was thinking it would solve the problem pretty well to just use a great big hopper or some other high floating dry as an indicator. Sorry for the stupid question.