parachiteadams39

It is the parcel on the south side of the creek opposite the ball fields. I won't open up much new creek but will increase access as well as improving management of that part of the creek watershed.

There are very good and detailed maps on www.cranecreektrout.com.

Totally agree with all of this, as well as troutbum's assesment that all of this may have run its course.

So now Crane Creek is a "stocked" creek? Not quite sure what this means: "BTW...you could have labled as a Jayhawk fan." Or how it's relevant to the conversation.

If I was out of line with Trout Bum I apologize to him and to everyone else on this string. My intent was to jovially disagree with him. I did make a small joke about his picking up trash -- while also sincerely thanking him for it. If my treatment of Troutbum was inappropriate well, at least someone was there to bring the tone of the discourse down even lower by calling me an insulting name! It was refreshing to see trespassing acknowledged as a crime, since some seem not to think it is. That said I was probably out of line in my accusation since opinions vary on this definition. My opinion is that he was trespassing, but I should have couched my language more carefully. As for the information from the Secretary of State, that is merely a definition of the term "State Waters" for use in legal relationships with other states and does not, nor does it intend, to address the issue of legal access. The issue of legal access revolves around navigability. On that issue I think Andrew 324 pretty much hit it out of the park.

That's my point: you are taking the lack of an explicit "no" to mean "yes." I can assure you that on Crane Creek between the bottom of the publicly owned access (clearly deliniated in my initial post) and the top of the lower wire road access, clearly deliniated by Grisham's Ford Rd., that the answer is, explcitly, "no." We planted about 800 trees in the field you mention a couple weeks back and didn't find any arrowheads. Anyway, I doubt my landowner friend will be receptive to letting you look for arrowheads given you've already helped yourself to the fishing.

Touche about stream depth -- the analogies to other streams in summer are well-made. That said it would have to be a teeny tiny small canoe to take a 90 degree turn on a 3 foot wide creek! There are several on CC. Stuart Little, perhaps? There was an organized stream clean up a couple of weekends ago. Cheers to all of you who have cleaned up trash then and on your own! I also buy a non-resident fishing tag and trout stamp but do not regard this as a license to trespess either actively by ignoring signs or passivly by assuming that if there's no sign it must be ok. In fact somehow as a non-resident (though I lived in Missouri for 40 years) I feel almost as if I should hold myself to a higher standard of behavior -- because I'm a guest I suppose. Call me old fashioned. Keeps me out of the way of the guys with revolvers... This amused me: "if i owned land on any river or lake i think i would at least pick the trash and tires up and dispose of them the right way." I will be sure to tell my friend that when you were trespassing on this land you were offended by the trash! There are approximately 4.5 full stream miles of publicly owned creek. Biggest fish I ever caught in CC were on the long hole at the end of lower Wire Road and between the Park and the Trestle. I just fail to see why people need to trespass. But I guess sometimes being told "no" is too tempting to resist.

"Could it be that people don't want others fishing their honey holes?" You mean like the people who struggle to pay mortgages on the land, who work to preserve and improve the habitat (efforts and improvements which benefit all users of the stream), who pick up the trash others (not saying you but in general) leave behind, who collect their cows from the highway & neighbors when uninvited "guests" leave gates open? Yeah, I think those people have a right to know that when they go down to their their honey holes on their land it hasn't been fished an hour before... Thanks for putting the fish back! Seriously. It was legal to keep and the fact you put it back tells me there's more we agree about than disagree about.

My understanding (oh god why have we gotten started on this again!) is that the legal definition of "navigable" is that it be able to be "navigated" for the bulk of the year. "Navigated" I guess is the difficult word here. I know that in December you must have had to do A LOT of dragging since there were places the creek was three feet wide and others it was four inches deep! Unfortunately there very places where it was very shallow with a gravel bottom -- a place where you'd have needed to "drag" -- are also where fish lay their eggs. Just sayin'.

I can assure you you were trespassing. I happen to know the owner and he would not be happy to hear his renter gave you this greeting. I hope you at least put that fish back!!!

As you say we probably don't need to get this whole discussion started again. The point was to provide useful information to the majority of us who don't wish to trespass. Those who don't care (or who willfully choose to remain in the dark) may obviously ignore this information. BTW given the abilities of smart phones, many of us have a GPS with us at all times anyway.

Some weeks ago there was a question on where public ownership below city park ends. I did some looking on Google Maps and it is approx: 36 deg. 54' 28.57" -93 deg. 34' 39.95" Keep in mind I haven't actually stood there, so maybe someone can go with a GPS and nail this down better.

Seriously Tim -- why not have a fly fishing clinic for kids in Crane?

Someone may have already mentioned this -- I'll be honest I didn't wade through all the three pages in search of the nuggets of wisdom with the haystack of vitupuration, back stabbing & snide comments -- but one of the larger, strategic things we could do about bait fishing on/in Crane would be to teach some people of fly fish -- whether there or elsewhere. I know the area pretty well and it was probably kids -- but not definitely. The more people we can get to drink our Kool Aide the less likely we'll be to find worm containers.

I think mallards are on the creek because so much other open water is frozen. Tim what are you doing in France?

This has been postponed due to weather...

My understanding is there's going to be a Crane Creek clean up February 6th meeting at the upper Wire Road parking lot at 8:00AM. I may have the time wrong -- please correct me if I am wrong. I'm gonna try and be there. A great opportunity to give something back to the creek and, perhaps, put some faces to chat room names...

If nothing else I am gratified by the tone of all these exchanges. We may disagree but we can do it respectfully. This doesn't always happen on this forum but seems to be happening in this thread -- at least so far! I agree that it's fine to carefully fish when the fish are not actively spawning -- but fishing for spawning fish really is poor form. And yeah Walton kept what he caught! And fished with bait etc. But there were a lot more fish and fewer fishermen back then. Plus he helped pepetuate the fish by not fishing for spawners...

As many of you know Izaak Walton is arguably one of the founders of the sport of fly fishing and is certainly the founder of fly fishing literature. The Compleat Angler is the most printed book in the Engliah language behind the Bible. Izaak said it best 400 years ago: But above all, the taking of Fish in Spawning time may be said to be against nature; it is like take the dam on her nest when she hatches her young: a sin so against nature, that Almighty God hath in the Levitical law made a law against it. Walton simply didn't fish from about December to April because was willing to deprive himself of some pleasure in order to avoid even the possibility -- however remote -- of damaging the resource which provided that pleasure.

I totally agree but it seems that this is a group that already knows about Crane Creek -- and so it's worth asking the people most likely to use the creek to respect it.

I walked along the middle section below park today and saw several redds. (Did not fish.) So may be time to give the fish a break -- keep in mind that even if they're not actively breeding or on a redd they're worn out, underfed and vulnerable at this time of year. So catch and release can easily become catch and kill, whether one means it to or not. Given that we all want plenty of fish come spring, it would be prudent to give the fish a break during this important and fragile time in their life cycle.

I was on middle section below park today and saw several redds. So may be time to give the fish a break -- keep in mind that even if they're not actively breeding or on a redd they're worn out and vulnerable at this time of year. So catch and release can easily become catch and kill, whether one means it to or not. Also on lower MDC section today and water flows were decent but did not see redds there, oddly enough.

Now Tim I don't want to tell you how to live your life but as a fellow bamboo fisherman I really don't think you should use the words "break" and "bamboo rod" in the same sentence...Seems like tempting fate.

Just an FYI I was on the Creek yesterday and saw 2 redds and saw trout in spawing colors.

At the risk of brining opprobrium down on myself, maybe we should get back on topic here, end the personal stuff. Or just agree that the topic's played out and move on.