fishgypsy

I'd have to agree. I used to work at Blind Pony, where they're raised, and you could climb into the raceways pick them up barehanded. They'd swim up and bump into your waders, then have to do a three or four point turn before moseying off in another direction. It was like a massive living pong game. Pretty funny.

IMO, if the fish is biologically a largemouth bass, it should count. Whether it was caught in Florida or Texas or Michigan or Japan is immaterial- it doesn't change the fact that it's a largemouth bass, Micropterus dolomeieu. Same with browns- doesn't matter if it was caught in the Black Forest of Germany, or Ireland, or Iceland, or the Little Red River, or Tierra del Fuego, or Lake Michigan- they're all biologically the same species, regardless of where they come from. Same with bait vs. artificial- it doesn't matter that the guy caught it on a bluegill, that doesn't change the species. I figure you can either split it up into a ton of different categories (by variety- lake run vs. sea-run vs. resident, steelhead and rainbow trout separate, etc), as well as method of capture (lure, bait, other), or you can just go by the largest fish of a given species is the world record, regardless of where it was caught and what it was caught on. I prefer the latter, it's simpler. Genuinely though, I really don't care. It makes no difference to me. Just my thoughts, though.

So I went and kept them company. Caught thirteen-nothing huge, though all were on or near the surface, which was fun. Most of the day's action were on little tan midges and emergers, about a size 22. Around two in the afternoon some BWO's started coming off and provided consistent action- flies were around 18-22. Most fish were stockers, I did miss an 18-20 inch rainbow in the C&R section on a san juan worm. The fly was in and out before I realized what happened. Aside from the frozen guides, it was fun, and frighteningly comfortable at 26 degrees.

I do not think anyone in the state has documented the demise of the sucker population either. Not to hijack the thread, and politics aside, but I really do think this would make a neat little undergrad research project. It seems like you'd only need to do some length-frequencies, species abundance, and CPUE between two similar-sized streams, one which doesn't allow gigging (Upper Current springs to mind), and one that does (Big Piney perhaps?). See if there's any significant differences in the sucker populations on those streams. I'd think it could make a fairly strong case one way or the other. Perhaps someone in MSA could/should email a few professors at Mizzou, SEMO and Missouri State and see if there'd be any interest in conducting a study like that. Or if there's a student out there who's interested in fisheries and wants to put something on their resume' that'll really stick out, they could approach their professors.

I read somewhere it was caught trolling a live bluegill through a canal somewhere in Japan. Screw sparkle flake and 200 hp motors Why? And if I catch an 11 pound spotted bass in the Meramec River, will you let me count it as the world record?

I've noticed that too, JD. In fact, most of the fish I catch and eat seem to taste like...well, like fish.

Rock? Crank? Smoke with seed? There could be a lot of humor in this thread Sorry I can't add anything productive.

No reason, I just didn't know where all everyone fishes. Here's the link for finding out which agents patrol what counties, and their phone numbers. Most MDC email addresses are simply the person's first and last name, separated by a period, with the...suffix? @mdc.mo.gov. For example: If the agent's name was John Doe, his MDC email would be John.Doe@mdc.mo.gov . It's not 100%, but I would assume you could contact the office the agent is working out of and request his MDC email address.

When it becomes politically expedient to do so. And I think that's the point Chief and others are making- it's all well and good to gripe about it on internet boards, but at some point you're just preaching to the choir. The real work is bringing it to the attention of other anglers, the MDC, agents, and the general public. My cell phone doesn't work in all areas of the state, particularly on a lot of the streams I fish. But I always carry a digital camera with me, and unless I've forgot to charge the battery, it works. Take pictures of dead fish, email them to agents along with a report of what you saw, where you saw it, that you're concerned for the resource, and that you'd like to see more enforcement at that access/stream. Most agents are pretty obliging to that sort of thing- they're looking for the bad guys too, and could use some extra eyes. I made a quick and dirty cheat sheet for my car- a list of agents in the counties I fish, along with their direct (home office) telephone numbers and e-mail addresses. Most of it's available online at the MDC website. Increase awareness- write letters to the Conservation Commission and others. Join the Conservation Federation of Missouri and bring it up there as an issue. Join other advocacy groups- MSA, Stream Teams, Missouri Chapter of the American Fisheries Society, and make them aware of your concerns. I understand we're all crunched for time, but for me the "When I get the chance to go fishing, I want to spend that time fishing," is a load of bull, and seems pretty selfish to boot. I understand the sentiment, and I'd love to spend all my time on the water fishing or floating, but invariably I'm picking up someone else's beer/pop cans, bottles, glass shards, food containers, styrofoam/plastic bait boxes, cooler parts, sandals, red NO MORE TRASH bags, popped inner tubes, snagging hooks, line, lures, watershoes, and other assorted crap. Should I have to? No, but sometimes you do things you don't enjoy for the benefit of the things you do enjoy. Just add snapping dead fish pics to the list. How long does it take to take a picture of a big, gigged, dead smallie? Five seconds? Ten seconds? Not a biggie. If I have to spend fifteen minutes or a half hour of my trip dredging up and taking pictures of stinky gigged fish, because I think the resource may ultimately benefit by my doing so, well then so be it. I'm headed out on an extended MO fishing binge in a week or so- Meramec, Current, and NFOW are on my list of places to go. I'll see what I can do.

Gary- if it's more suspected than fact, where are all these dead gamefish with gig holes in them coming from? I think I see what you're saying, that the issue is overblown. In my mind it's a moot point, it's still illegal and shouldn't be happening, no matter how many or how few people are doing it. And from the first forum you linked: "most people gig way into the wee hours, then they all pull up on a gravel bar and begin cleaning and have a fish fry right there. " That's possibly a violation. I'm young, and I may be reading too much into his post, but MDC says gigging is to occur from sunrise to midnight only- not what I'd personally call "way into the wee hours."

I just tied up two dozen or so buzzers, an assortment of different fishy-looking patterns which seem as though they'll produce. I'm planning on epoxying them tonight, and I'll report whatever happens with them.

I think the whole chase-boat thing is a bit ridiculous. If you ask me, what the GreenPeace and PETA folks need to do is start chaining themselves to the whales, like they do the sequoias and redwoods I know nothing about the market for whale products; I've never really had a desire to eat whale, and from what I've heard it tastes awful. But I do have a soft spot for those kitschy scrimshaw whalebone carvings you see sometimes. Anyway, harvesting whales makes me nervous- most populations haven't bounced back from where they were pre-harvest, several populations are extinct, and several more have been depleted from hundreds or tens of thousands of individuals to thousands or hundreds of individuals. Fishing technology has only improved since commercial whaling was banned, and it wouldn't take much pressure to push some of those populations back over the edge. Frankly, I don't need whale meet or scrimshawed carvings so bad as to risk the extinction of populations or species. As for GreenPeace and the Japanese/Nordic nations which are still harvesting whales- what GreenPeace does seems to me akin to the guy who dumps a water bottle on a burning building. It's a sideshow. It makes for great TV, for a great soundbite on the evening news, and it's a hell of a lot sexier than sitting down with scientists and international agencies and policy wonks and hashing out what to do to actually prevent whaling. But I'm not sure how much of an effect it has on reducing the market for whale meat, or actually preventing that many whales from being killed.

It wouldn't surprise me if it was a paddlefish you encountered. They can run upstream an awful long way, and MDC's been known to throw some into Ozark streams if they have excess fish after stocking LOZ, Truman, and Table Rock. I've seen some, fish in the 40-60 pound range, in the Jacks Fork River, in deep pools between riffles so shallow my canoe was dragging. Pretty unreal a fish that big can move through a river system like that. As for whether they're an indicator of system health, I couldn't tell you for certain. They eat plankton, which of itself is an indicator of a fertile stream/water body, and that's not necessarily a bad thing.

Fishing was good in 2009. No monsters, but I had a lot of fun, fished for a ton of wild trout, and got to see some places and things I'd before only read about in magazines. Started off poorly though, I was skunked on a little wild trout stream. Made up for it later in January at the Meramec, I must've caught 30 fish. Re-familiarized myself with the Current River this spring, going out once a week for about a month and a half. I caught a slew of fish, had a couple great days where I was in the double-digits fish-wise, and the biggest were browns and one rainbow around 16-1 7 inches. Fished the North Fork of the White River for the first time in March and did pretty well. Caught a six-pound channel catfish on my flyrod in April, that was awesome. Only made it out smallie fishing once, and only wound up with a ten inch spotted bass and a pile of green sunfish. Highlight for the year, by far, was fly fishing Wyoming and Montana. Caught the biggest fish of the year there (19" Yellowstone Cutthroat), as well as tons of rainbows, brooks, browns, westslope and Yellowstone cutts, even a couple grayling. Got to see mule deer, elk, black and grizzly bears, moose, bison, and even heard wolves. I got to watch an Osprey dive on trout twenty feet in front of me on the Madison. I got to watch fish smash grasshoppers and spruce moths. And I drank a lot of craft beer, too. Spent a week in Yellowstone with college friends, fished more, caught more. Getting back together with those folks was an absolute blast. Went to the Current in October and caught a brace of trout, a rainbow and a brown, each around fifteen inches. Slow, but fun. A coyote wandered across the stream about thirty feet downstream of me, and didn't notice my presence until I turned to look at him. Fished the North Fork again this fall, and did well again, no monsters, the biggest fish were a brace of fifteen inch browns. Great fun though, and great company. Solstice I went to the Meramec and caught a bunch of rock bass and striped shiners. Hooked a few trout, but brought none to net. Saw several eagles and muskrats, and deer were absolutely everywhere. A few days before New Years I went down to the Current and fished. It was alright, a bit slow, only managed three nymphing through runs. It was a fairly nice day though, and a comfortable way to end 2009. I'm looking forward to this year. The photos from last:

I'm sure other species are being gigged, CGB, and that's certainly a problem. It's no more right for a gigger to kill a smallmouth than any other black bass, or any other game or non-sucker species, IMO. But I think the gist of the thread gravitated towards smallmouth only because of the initial post.

Does anyone have the contact info for Tom down at SpringRise? I did a google search and couldn't find a website or any other info. Thanks!

Welcome, make yourself at home.

I'm sure the agents have it tough- deer season, turkeys, waterfowl, and gigging all around the same time. Plus it's that time of year where every critter from rattlesnakes to raccoons is trying to find a warm place to stay for the winter (i.e. an attic or crawlspace), and I know the Department gets a ton of calls on those issues every year. They can't be everywhere at once, and I could see how patrolling streams would fall through the cracks. I like the idea of a roving group of CA commandoes- lots of us have probably heard stories of agents being terrorized by locals, and if you're being ticketed or arrested by someone outside of your county, that may benefit that situation. My only question is whether it'd be an issue when it came to prosecution. As for publicity, it may be pretty tactless, but if someone's frustrated enough...the MDC's Natural Resources Conference is coming up at the beginning of February, and if a couple folks were to go flashing around pictures of big, dead, gigged smallies...well I think that'd be about all the attention you need.

I thought all along it was about people who are legally using the resources (people who aren't violating game laws), versus people who are (people gigging sportfish). When did the issue become one of fly flingers versus giggers? Is there anything inherently wrong with wanting the folks who are out there gigging to obey game laws, just the same as I want anyone out there spin or bait or flyfishing to obey game laws?

I wonder if MDC has any data on how many people are out there gigging. Every time I renew my fishing license I'm asked if I've fished for smallmouth, every time I renew my hunting license I'm asked if I shot waterfowl or doves, I wonder if it'd be difficult to put a question on the license reader "did you gig for suckers in the past year?" just to get a decent estimate. I guess the thing which just seems "off" to me is that MDC manages suckers as a non-game species, I'm not sure how much data they collect on population trends or sizes, like they do with smallmouth or walleye or other sportfish. But suckers are pursued and are taken into possession- there's a fishery there that doesn't seem to really be regulated. That makes me nervous. And what floors me whenever I talk to the old-time giggers is the recurring theme of "Things were better thirty years ago. Lots more suckers, and big ones, too." It's discussed with this sort of wistful stoicism that makes me wonder why they're not pushing MDC to figure out what's wrong. I have no problem with the giggers out there who obey game laws. And proportionally, there's probably just as many pole-and-line violators out there as giggers. In any instance, I don't think we should throw the baby out with the bath water. My point is that, in the case of giggers who violate, the cards are stacked against the agent from the get-go, unlike pole and line anglers. To me that's the biggest challenge- simply being able to regulate gigging in a meaningful way. The knee-jerk reaction is to ban gigging altogether, and aside from that not being feasible, I don't think it's fair to lump every gigger out there in with the violators. Honestly, the best thing I see would be if the gigging community became more self-policing, though I'm not sure how you'd go about encouraging it. Has anyone ever thought of working with the stream teams to do some sort of dead fish census? Instead of plastic bags and tires you survey fish carcasses a couple times during the gigging season? It'd probably fly like a lead balloon- cold weather and dead stinky fish, but hey, it's an idea.

I thought running dogs for deer was the glue that holds society together. Or cockfights. I can't remember.

I've gone out gigging a few times, but gave it up in disgust. I'd go out with ten or a dozen folks, and invariably one or two were content violating game laws, sticking any fish they saw- suckers, bass, catfish, turtles, shad- anything. My issue wasn't with the sport- it is a lot of fun. Just a few of the people who practiced it poorly. All I can really do is echo Al's sentiment- I don't think gigging will be going away, but I hope there's a better way to manage that segment of the sporting population. There are game violators in every segment, I don't mean to single out giggers. But like Al said, a gig boat, with lights, in the dark, has the distinct advantage of being able to select what fish you kill- you can skim off the largest fish fairly easily. I guess part of my frustration is I simply don't understand MDC's rationale for determining what is and is not a legal consumptive fishing method. Some traditional fishing techniques (noodling comes to mind), are illegal because they damage fish populations. Others (snagging, gigging) damage fish populations, but are given a pass. Why?

Mine big goal is not necessarily to fish more, though I'd welcome that option. But to fish harder, to make the most of the time I have fishing, to work harder for fish, and hopefully get a couple REALLY memorable fish this season. I'd also like to build a couple new rods, and finally figure out a way to keep my fly tying materials and fly-boxes organized. Some new gear- waders, wading boots, fishing vets, flyboxes, perhaps even a new reel and some lines, all seem like they're in order. As for travel- I'm thinking another trip out west- Wyoming, Idaho, or northern Montana. I STILL want to get to Miami and fish the canals for peacock bass, baby tarpon and snook. Michigan and the driftless region sound tempting, too. Hope everyone has a great New Year, I'll see you guys in 2010.

Chief's absolutely right, and I appreciate him providing another viewpoint (not necessarily opposing, just different!) Not everyone wants the same thing from a smallmouth bass fishery, the tough job the folks at MDC have is providing opportunities for the widest swath of anglers. The resources belong to all, even those I don't personally agree with. And luckily, all have a say in how those resources are managed. I think that's what I like about the MSA, it's a group of people who generally share my philosophy on how the state's smallmouth fisheries should be managed, or could be better managed. I'm obviously biased, I think my ideas are better than others, but I also recognize people have different opinions and expect different things from the resource. They're more than welcome to lobby the MDC on behalf of their constituency, I have no qualms about that.

That sucks, and I'd be willing to bet a lot of bass, even spawning bass, get killed those first couple of days. As for what could be done, here's my guesses: 1.) Move the opener off Memorial Day weekend. Move it to a weekday, or a weekend where everyone and their mothers aren't off for vacation. 2.) C&R on streams until early summer, say June 15th. 3.) Maximum length limit of 15 inches for smallies. The bigger fish are producing the most eggs and have the most nest success.